Fighting for the Faith With Chris Rosebrough – TD Jakes Bizarre View and Misuse of Scripture
[First segment on mp3 – 00:06:03 – 00:06:47]
Below is a transcript taken from Chris Rosebrough’s radio show podcast Fighting For The Faith Radio podcast which was originally broadcast on Wednesday October 11th 2013, which you can subscribe to on iTunes. I highly recommend you do this if you want to develop discernment.
You can also listen to this unbiblical sermon from TD Jakes – Your Day is not Over – part 1. This is available from iTBN – Potter’s Touch website > http://www.itbn.org/index/detail/lib/Networks/sublib/TBN/ec/tyY3Q0ZToiBKYczrEXeUfoomjBNpmJqk#ooid=tyY3Q0ZToiBKYczrEXeUfoomjBNpmJqk
Here is the video link for this transcript > http://youtu.be/5VnqK3bZTW0
Chris Rosebrough, “Then we are going to take a hard left turn into bizarro world. We are going to do a TD Jakes money grubbing televangelist update and you know kind of ask the question what does TD Jakes teach about what the purpose of the Bible is and you know particular portions of it.
You kind of have to hear this to get what I am saying. So we will be listening to eight minutes of a message delivered by TD Jakes entitled Your Day is Not Over and it is just kind of the introduction to this message that he is giving and it is way out there. But it fits with a lot of the stuff we have been playing recently where people somehow totally miss the entire point of scripture.
[Second Segment on mp3 – 00:13:04 – 00:38:31]
Okay I warned you that we were going to be doing well a kind of abrupt left turn and since we are going to doing a money grubbing televangelist update I think it is important that we…I warned you that we are going to be making these abrupt turns today. Very eclectic programme and since we are changing gears just get ready for the exact opposite of what you just heard and to introduce our next segment here is Dr. Teeth….
Dr. Teeth – Money Song
Don’t want no loving
Don’t want no kissing
Don’t want no gal to call me honey
Don’t want my name in the hall of fame
Just want a big fat pile of money
Give me that all mighty dollar for that lettuce every hollar
Give me bucket full of duckets
Let me walk around and waller
In Mazuma el donaro, wanna be a millionairo
Give me money money money money money money
I want that green amunition that’s the stuff for which I’m wishing
Fill my closets with deposits
I am a demon at addition
Give me shackels, give me pesos, let me see their smiling faceos
Money money money money money money
I wanna get me a suit
That’s made out of loot
and whistle to wear it in green
I have got that monetary eye that is being like King Midas
want that golden touch is what I need
Give me that old double eagle
Want that tender that is legal
and financially substantially any sum I can envegel
I want to live in regal splendour
With that loving legal tender
Money money money money money money
I am a greenback collector
I am a paper bill inspector
I am a savage for that cabage
Man to me it’s golden necter
Pour that filthy looter on me
Spread those lovin’ germs upon me
Money money money money money money
And if they ever plant trees of E Plurbus Unum
I wanna be the guy sent out to prune ‘em
Oh give me money!
Alright there we go Dr. Teeth and Money, Money, Money. That is our money grubbing televangelist update music. Now what you are about to hear is a message from TD Jakes and the name of the message is Your Day is Not Over and this is just the lead into the sermon. But already you can tell that the trap is baited. That is probably a right way of putting it. Based upon his view of what the purpose of scripture is and you know what he is going to do with it.
So what you are going to hear is some hermeneutical gymnastics done by a man who is probably one of the most gifted communicators on the planet and unfortunately to go with his gift of communication he doesn’t also have an equal gift of the right handling of God’s Word. In fact quite the opposite. So without any further or due here is TD Jakes to introduce this message of his entitled Your Day is Not Over. We are paying attention now specifically keying in what is his view of scripture and notice how handles it. Here we go….”
TD Jakes, “May God bless you on this particular day as He has never blessed you before. I just believe Him for your day and if you don’t mind I pray for your day today that God would just drift and bless you in a supernatural way. I am excited because I have an opportunity to share a word with you that maybe contradictory to everything that you see going on in your life.
You may feel like you miss your chance and you messed up and you blew it. That your day is over you know you are wrong. This message says your day is not over God has a plan for you, a comeback a turnaround, a moment where he brings equilibrium and stability to that adversity in your life. Your day is not over. Take a look at this….”
Chris Rosebrough, “What? Okay not sure what he is doing there. But this is kind of again you get some dream destiny, some major purpose, some and your day is not over. You can accomplish it kind of a thing and we have heard this message a thousand different ways from Tuesday in the seeker driven movement. In the charismatic movement, the new apostolic reformation you know, Word of Faith I mean it is all over the place – except for historic orthodox Christianity. Here we go….”
TD Jakes, “Ecclesiastes the great thinker. The great writer, the great sage identifies a very unique association between purpose and times….”
Chris Rosebrough, “Ecclesiastes he sounds like a train wreck there. Ecclesiastes so apparently in Ecclesiastes it describes a unique connection between purpose and time. Hmm…..”
TD Jakes, “He says there is a time and season for every purpose under heaven….”
Chris Rosebrough, “Yeah….”
TD Jakes, “There is a time and a season for every purpose under heaven. In other words time is born with the twin called purpose….”
Chris Rosebrough, “In other words time is born with the called purpose. The text that he is referring to by the way is a very familiar passage. You familiar with that song for everything turn there is a season. Turn you know yeah it is from Ecclesiastes 3. Listen carefully….
Ecclesiastes 3 v 1-8 (English Standard Version)
1 For everything there is a season, and a time for every matter under heaven:
2 a time to be born, and a time to die;
a time to plant, and a time to pluck up what is planted;
3 a time to kill, and a time to heal;
a time to break down, and a time to build up;
4 a time to weep, and a time to laugh;
a time to mourn, and a time to dance;
5 a time to cast away stones, and a time to gather stones together;
a time to embrace, and a time to refrain from embracing;
6 a time to seek, and a time to lose;
a time to keep, and a time to cast away;
7 a time to tear, and a time to sew;
a time to keep silence, and a time to speak;
8 a time to love, and a time to hate;
a time for war, and a time for peace.
So when you put that passage back in context it is not saying what he is saying. He is just making reference to it and hasn’t actually read the passage and now he is making this weird statement. Let me back this up again so you can hear it because this then forms the foundation for his launching off point from here. So we continue here we go….”
TD Jakes, “There is a time and a season for every purpose under heaven. In other words time is born with the twin called purpose and it is a waste of time to extend days without purpose….”
Chris Rosebrough, “Yeah that is not what Ecclesiastes 3 says!”
TD Jakes, “God gives us days then for purpose. The Psalmist David said teach….”
Chris Rosebrough, “Did you see how he did that? Well there you go
Ecclesiastes 3 v 1 is all about who knew that see there is a time for purpose. That is what he did with this and so notice he makes a reference to the text. Kind of fools around with the text, makes a statement and then builds on the statement and now we are to a conclusion that is actually not in the text itself. But this isn’t the main part of what I want to focus on. Let me just back up just a little and then we will keep going forward. Notice pay attention to what he thinks the purpose of scripture is as we go through this sound bite of his.”
TD Jakes, “The Psalmist David said teach me to number my days O God that I may know how frail I am. Teach me to count my days to have birthdays and weeks and months. So that I can realise that I am temporal. That I have a limit to how long I can meander, to stop me from wandering, to give me focus, to give me tenacity, and commitment and resilience. You don’t learn that at first. It takes a while to number your days. I will guarantee you will waste a few of them. Before you begin to appreciate I only have a certain amount and that becomes important.
Dates are important. Let us give us some sort of reference as to where we are in regard to accomplishment of purpose. I wasn’t feeling too good the other day and I said something to my wife and my wife is adamant about this and I said I am not feeling too good. I want to take a Advil or something and she said you know I just look for anything that says Advil and swallow it. She started snatching, ‘No no that has an expiration date.’ I would have never known it because I wouldn’t have checked the date. I just swallowed the pill. She said, ‘No it is only good to this day and it is this date over here and you shouldn’t take it past this date. If that is true about medicine, then you must also realise it is true about life.’
Chris Rosebrough, “None of the biblical authors had access to Advil or drugs that had a particular use by date. So I don’t know I am sorry Ecclesiastes 3 has nothing to do with Advil and medicines that have an expiration date and so now apparently not as a principle here that you have got to apply to yourself. We continue….”
TD Jakes, “Not only through the metaphor I discussed, but from the scriptures itself you have an expiration date….”
Chris Rosebrough, “Yeah it is called the day that I die….”
TD Jakes, “If you are going to fulfil your purpose, you have to fulfil it within a certain window of time.”
Chris Rosebrough, “Yeah that time when you know you are still breathing. Again Ecclesiastes 3 doesn’t teach anything about me having a purpose and that you know that there is a time twin thing going on with it.”
TD Jakes, “Time, purpose, purpose, time, purpose, purpose, time. So the enemy of this world doesn’t have to kill you, if he disassociates your sense of purpose from time.
Chris Rosebrough, “Ah wow that clever devil, who knew….”
TD Jakes, “Just renders you inoperable. The Advil was still there, but it had not been used in time. [Laughs]”
Chris Rosebrough, “Yeah that was a little demonic laughter wasn’t it? Let me back that up.”
[Play s clip of TD Jakes laughing]
Chris Rosebrough, “Yeah that ultimately creeped me out there….”
TD Jakes, “There are people in this room who are oblivious to purpose and time. But there are many of us who were born with the sense of urgency that we put here to do something. We knew it many times.”
Chris Rosebrough, “Oh boy how important you must be….”
TD Jakes, “There are people in this room who are oblivious to purpose and time. But there are many of us who were born with the sense of urgency that we put here to do something. We knew it many times as children. We knew it even in our foolishness. We knew it even in our wildness. We knew it even in our predicament. We knew it even in our propensity to procrastinate.
We still knew that we were put here to do something. That knowledge is what pulls you up out of the gutter of your own human debauchery, it stops you. Not that you are any better than anyone else. It is just that you sense there is something higher calling you beyond your human proclivities to wince….”
Chris Rosebrough, “A sense uh hmm…..”
TD Jakes, “You say I have got to do something, sometimes you don’t even know what it is. You just know you have got to do something. Sometimes you don’t”
Chris Rosebrough, “Yeah you have got to figure out what that something is though you better ask God to tell you – you know through speaking to you through a whisper, a still small voice or something right. What is this theology? And how it is it that this has come to reign as the core theology in evangelicalism. This isn’t what The Bible teaches at all….”
TD Jakes, “You say I have got to do something, sometimes you don’t even know what it is. You just know you have got to do something. Sometimes you don’t know where you are going, you just know where you have got to go. I don’t know where I am going, but I can’t stay here. I don’t know who I am. But I have figured out who I am not. This is….somebody knows what I am talking about.”
Chris Rosebrough, “No it is not me….”
TD Jakes, “For this task God has selected Joshua. Now Moses to me is the mighty pastor of The Old Testament. There is none like him. He is a mighty prophet. He is a mighty pastor. He is selected to lead the wondering sheep of Israel through the wilderness of confusion….”
Chris Rosebrough, “Through the wilderness of confusion. Notice he is already allegorizing the wilderness here. Hmm….okay so Moses is set to lead the people through the wilderness of confusion and he is kind of setting up the story of Joshua here. Pay attention to the details as to why God according to TD Jakes isn’t going to allow Moses to be the one to lead the people of Israel into the promised land. Listen to what he does….”
TD Jakes, “For this task God has selected Joshua. Now Moses to me is the mighty pastor of The Old Testament. There is none like him. He is a mighty prophet. He is a mighty pastor. He is selected to lead the wondering sheep of Israel through the wilderness of confusion detoxing them from their servitude, bringing them into an absoluteness of sonship. It took forty years for them to begin to recognize you are not owned, but owners. Yeah…”
Chris Rosebrough, “Yeah which passage of scripture says that the children of Israel had to realise they weren’t owned, but owners. I am not familiar with any of those passages….”
TD Jakes, “Yeah an entire generation had to die out because they were born into an owned situation and they were being translated into an owning situation and when you have been owned sometimes it is hard for your mind to recognize that you have transitioned from being the property to the property owner. It took about forty years a lot of wondering, a lot of dying and now God said, ‘Moses you….’”
Chris Rosebrough, “Pause here. Remember our principle that we used earlier this week. The idea that scripture interprets scripture, that being the case – what is the reason given in the New Testament as to why the children of Israel died in the wilderness? Was it because they failed to make the transition mentally from being owned to being owners? Is that what the New Testament says? Well Jude v5 makes this clear. Writing under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit….
5 Now I want to remind you, although you once fully knew it, that Jesus, who saved a people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed those who did not believe.
Yeah that is right they were destroyed because of unbelief. Not because they wondering through the wilderness of confusion, having a difficult time making the transition from going from being owned to being owners. So there is a lot of bad theology packed in here. But I am going to back this up just a hair so that you can then hear the reason why according to TD Jakes Moses wasn’t the one to lead the children of Israel into the promised land. We continue….”
TD Jakes, “For this task God has selected Joshua. Now Moses to me is the mighty pastor of The Old Testament. There is none like him. He is a mighty prophet. He is a mighty pastor. He is selected to lead the wondering sheep of Israel through the wilderness of confusion detoxing them from their servitude, bringing them into an absoluteness of sonship.
It took forty years for them to begin to recognize you are not owned, but owners. An entire generation had to die out because they were born into an owned situation and they were being translated into an owning situation and when you have been owned sometimes it is hard for your mind to recognize that you have transitioned from being the property to the property owner. It took about forty years a lot of wondering, a lot of dying and now God said, ‘Moses you were good to bring them to this point. But now that they are owning and not being owned I need Joshua, because Joshua is a fighter.”
Chris Rosebrough, “Uh huh do you remember that passage from the Old Testament where God says to Moses you have done a great job but let me play the quote so you can hear it again. I mean does”
TD Jakes, “God said, ‘Moses you were good to bring them to this point. But now that they are owning and not being owned I need Joshua, because Joshua is a fighter.”
Chris Rosebrough, “Hmm….do you remember that passage? Are you familiar with it? I mean where God says to Moses, ‘Hey listen now that they are owning rather than being owned. Hey listen I need Joshua to lead the people of Israel into the promised land because He is a fighter and you are not.’ Do you remember where that is? Second Hesitations chapter 86 I think you know something like that. It is not in there. That passage isn’t in The Bible at all. TD Jakes just made it up. Just literally just made it up. That dialogue doesn’t exist.
But there is a passage that does explain why Moses isn’t the one leading the children of Israel into the promised land. You can actually find it in The Old Testament. It is found in the book of Numbers. That is right Numbers 20. I will start at v1….
Numbers 20 v 1-13 (ESV – English Standard Version)
1 And the people of Israel, the whole congregation, came into the wilderness of Zin in the first month, and the people stayed in Kadesh. And Miriam died there and was buried there. 2 Now there was no water for the congregation. And they assembled themselves together against Moses and against Aaron. 3 And the people quarreled with Moses and said, “Would that we had perished when our brothers perished before the Lord! 4 Why have you brought the assembly of the Lord into this wilderness, that we should die here, both we and our cattle? 5 And why have you made us come up out of Egypt to bring us to this evil place? It is no place for grain or figs or vines or pomegranates, and there is no water to drink.” 6 Then Moses and Aaron went from the presence of the assembly to the entrance of the tent of meeting and fell on their faces. And the glory of the Lord appeared to them, 7 and the Lord spoke to Moses, saying, 8 “Take the staff, and assemble the congregation, you and Aaron your brother, and tell the rock before their eyes to yield its water. So you shall bring water out of the rock for them and give drink to the congregation and their cattle.” 9 And Moses took the staff from before the Lord, as he commanded him.
10 Then Moses and Aaron gathered the assembly together before the rock, and he said to them, “Hear now, you rebels: shall we bring water for you out of this rock?” 11 And Moses lifted up his hand and struck the rock with his staff twice, and water came out abundantly, and the congregation drank, and their livestock. 12 And the Lord said to Moses and Aaron, “Because you did not believe in me, to uphold me as holy in the eyes of the people of Israel, therefore you shall not bring this assembly into the land that I have given them.” 13 These are the waters of Meribah, where the people of Israel quarrelled with the Lord, and through them he showed himself holy.
So what happened? God said to Moses, ‘Tell the rock, speak to the rock to yield its water. Moses didn’t speak to the rock. He struck it and the first time he struck it no water came out and you know what he did? Struck it again, this time the water came out. But because according to the LORD he did not believe him, to uphold the LORD as holy in the eyes of the people he was therefore punished and said he would not be the one to bring the assembly into the land – the promised land. That is the reason why. So that is what scripture says. Here is again is what TD Jakes said.
TD Jakes, “It took about forty years a lot of wondering, a lot of dying and now God said, ‘Moses you were good to bring them to this point. But now that they are owning and not being owned I need Joshua, because Joshua is a fighter.”
Chris Rosebrough, “That is blasphemy isn’t it? He has added to scripture – completely changed the story. But all of that then is to setup this idea of what is the purpose of the story of Joshua then?”
TD Jakes, “It is one thing to believe something and wonder, but when you get ready to possess it. You have got to fight. Hey I am going to say it is one thing to believe something and wonder. But when you get ready to possess it, you have got to fight. You cannot be led by a Moses, when it is time to fight. You have got to be led by a Joshua. Because Joshua had a fighting instinct….”
Chris Rosebrough, “So you can’t be led a Moses, when it is time to fight. This is all nonsense. It is false doctrine. This is lying about God and lying about His word.”
TD Jakes, “Fighter, if you are a fighter, tell somebody and say, ‘I am a fighter.’ That doesn’t necessarily mean that I am going up my dukes to punch you. That doesn’t necessarily mean that I am going to push you out of your seat. It does mean if that you between in me and what God has promised me. Don’t expect me to lay down and let you take over. Any there any fighters in the house? Fought to get up, fought to finish what you started. Fought to get in the college. Fought to stay in the college. Fought to keep your mind against opposition…..”
Chris Rosebrough, “Yeah none of this has anything to do with what the Bible really says. This is false doctrine and filling people’s minds with garbage….”
TD Jakes, “You are not there because you weren’t in a fight. You had to fight every step of the way to get to where you are and if you are not a fighter you are not going to finish. You have got to bad. You have got to be down with it. You have got to be bad. You have got to be ready come hell or high water. I want to….”
Chris Rosebrough, “Uh hmm you have got to be ready come hell or high water. What does this have to do with the Bible – what it really says? Absolutely nothing….”
TD Jakes, “….And Joshua is in a fight. He is in a fight and he doesn’t exactly know where he is going. Because sometimes when you are a fighter and fighting to accomplish your purpose you don’t exactly know what you is doing. One time he pulls his sword on the angel of God. He has fought so much that anything coming in his direction he will tell. He says are you for me or against me? When you have had to fight all your life, sometimes it is hard to make friends. Because anybody that gets in close proximity to you, you draw your sword and say, ‘Don’t start nothing I…’”
Chris Rosebrough, “Yeah what does this have to do with scripture? Nothing the idea here is well when you get ready to read the book of Joshua that is the blueprint for how to be a fighter in your life. To take possession, to learn how to be an owner rather than being owned and all that kind of stuff. Filling these people with absolute nonsense – doctrinal nonsense.
The Bible doesn’t mean any of this and the proof for that is the fact that in order to get to this message he had to lie, literally lie – make up stuff about what the biblical text says and that is not rightly handling God’s word. That is deceiving and that is what sends people to hell.
Alright we are up on our first break. If you would like to email me regarding anything you have heard on this edition any or previous editions of Fighting for the Faith. You can do so my email address is firstname.lastname@example.org or you can subscribe on Facebook – www.facebook.com/piratechristian or follow me on Twitter. My name there is @piratechristian.
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