Fighting for the Faith With Chris Rosebrough – Beth Moore’s Non-Exegetical Eisegesis
Below is a transcript taken from Chris Rosebrough’s radio show podcast Fighting For The Faith Radio podcast which was originally broadcast on Wednesday October 2nd 2013, which you can subscribe to on iTunes. I highly recommend you do this if you want to develop discernment.
You can also listen to this unbiblical sermon from Beth Moore – Discovering Our True Selves – part 5. This is available from the ‘Life Today audio podcast’ in iTunes and it is available from Light Source > http://www.lightsource.com/ministry/wednesdays-with-beth/video-player/beth-moore-our-true-selves-part-5-366854.html
Here is the video link for this transcript > http://youtu.be/OVdT02UpYCA
[Mp3 – First Segment – 00:02:14 – 00:05:49]
Chris Rosebrough, “Now there is a particular technique that I have noted among certain very popular teachers within Christendom and I am using Christendom in like broadest possible meaning here. We will say maybe the visible church, although we can’t see the invisible church. The invisible church is made up of those who are truly penitent and trusting Christ for the forgiveness of their sins.
But the idea is this is that if somebody is really a popular teacher within the visible church don’t you think that person should be noted by and basically earn the right to have a large audience due to the fact that they do a stellar job of rightly handling God’s Word and helping us to understand it, so that we can all be good disciples of Jesus Christ.
I mean after all false doctrine is forbidden by scripture. In fact you teaching false doctrine, you be in big trouble. Jesus is not too hip on that and neither is God the Holy Spirit and so the idea is that this particular technique that I have made reference to just in passing, but haven’t really defined is a fascinating technique and what I find interesting about it is that it kind of goes something like this.
Open up your Bibles to ex-wi-zee chapter and verse and then the person begins to read ex-wi-zee chapter and verse. And no sooner are they done reading chapter and verse maybe two, three verses at the most. Then they proceed to launch into something that verse doesn’t even talk about or say and normally they end up talking about themselves.
You know it is the weirdest thing. It is as if somehow you know we open God’s word and we read the stories that are there and you know I can’t help it. But I have got to tell you one of my life stories and somehow my life story seems to be connected to this verse and you know the problem is the way it is connected is in the most tortuous of well how do I say this. It is not even correctly put together. You know there is no real connection here and you know it is a very tenuous connection at best and most of the times it is no connection at all.
Now I notice this with all kinds of popular teachers. Joel Osteen, Rick Warren, Steven Furtick, you can even say Beth Moore.
In fact we are going to have a Beth Moore update today and I…do I have a Beth Moore update music. It is been so long since we have done an update on Beth Moore that I….she is not really a regular. She is somebody who from time to time I tune into and one of the reasons why I don’t do her you know do Beth Moore updates more often….well and I probably should is because she is one of these gals who let’s just say that she really gives a good exegete, a run for their and often times finding the error in the way she is handling God’s Word is very subtle and takes a lot of work.
In fact you know she out of all of the people out there who I have noted actually have a propensity for twisting God’s Word. Especially in this way that we are going to talk about today. She is the best at hiding it and actually does attempt to at least engage in something of exegesis which kind of begs the question is that…you know she doesn’t claim to be a pastor. But man a lot of people look to her and her teaching as if she were their pastor. You know what I am saying but anyway that is probably a topic for a different episode of Fighting for the Faith.
[Mp3 – Second Segment – 00:08:06 – 00:08:50]
And then we will take our break and when we come back from our break we are going to have an extended Beth Moore you know listen to and she is one of these ones that you know she does some things right and then there is this other thing that she does that you know she…well I won’t even tell you the text that she is supposedly teaching on. Because the lead off into it you know you have got, this is from The Life Today programme.
They set her up as basically saying that Beth Moore is going to teach us about our true selves and I am thinking, ‘Our true selves what is that?’ And then she launches…she you know they so when they segway into her – she is talking about plastic surgery and so without looking you know could you guess what passage of scripture she is actually teaching on? Yeah it is going to be a little bit of challenge.
[Mp3 -Third segment – 00:45:37 – 01:08:46]
Chris Rosebrough, “Alright we are back. Warning if you are attending a church and the pastor is spends an enormous amount of time twisting a scripture into telling you how wonderful and important you are, rather than telling you about Christ – run your eternal life depends on it!!!
Alright here I think I have used this music before in the past for Beth Moore updates but here we go.
I am woman – Helen Reddy
I am woman, hear me roar
In numbers too big to ignore
And I know too much to go back an’ pretend
‘Cause I have heard it all before
And I’ve been down there on the floor
No one’s ever gonna keep me down again
Oh yes, I am wise
But it’s wisdom born of pain
Yes, I have paid the price
But look how much I gained
If I have to, I can do anything
I am strong
I am invincible
I am woman….
Yeah there we go Helen Reddy – I am woman. Hear me roar. Okay yeah I think we will be using that for Beth Moore in the future if we haven’t already done that in the past. It has been a long time since we have done a Beth Moore update.
So what we are going to be listening to today is we are going to be listening to a segment from The Life Today television programme where Beth Moore holds court if you would and we are going to hear her being introduced by the hosts of Life Today and supposedly she is going to be talking about discovering our true selves and I am not going to tell you what passage of scripture she is supposedly teaching through.
See if you can figure it out based on the intro. Because like again we are kind of delving into this. Notice what Joel Osteen did with scripture. Just throw out this verse just completely out of context. Made it say what it doesn’t say and then no sooner is it out on the table. It just departs and then starts making up stuff. Ah well this is what Beth Moore is doing, although she got starts out by just making up stuff and then finding the biblical verse and I can’t figure out the connection but she is better than most at handling God’s word. Let’s just put it that way. She actually makes some effort to try to handle it correctly whereas most of the Bible twisters don’t.
So here is the folks over at Life Today to introduce this segment from Beth Moore on Discovering Our True Selves. Yeah here we go.
James Robison, “And you are going to want to do that. Well Beth is teaching on our true selves and I think sometimes people don’t know. They really don’t know what they look like and I think even you know sometimes we have too an opinion. But more than often we may have a low opinion and then we don’t want to get honest about ourselves. Well let’s listen to Beth because I think she is going to inspire all of us. Here is Beth welcome….”
Chris Rosebrough, “That is I think James Robison introducing because she is going to be talking about our true selves. Okay can you figure out just from this introduction which passage of scripture she is going to be teaching from? No ideas well you know let’s see if….let’s fill in a little bit more data. Here we go….”
James Robison, “Here is Beth welcome….”
Beth Moore, “Listen have you ever had a revelation happen to you when you realised that what it is you find distasteful about somebody is what is in them is that in you. I hate it….”
Chris Rosebrough, “Uh hmm you know what passage of scripture she is teaching through yet? Okay alright more data. I am sure you need more data. Here we go….”
Beth Moore, “I absolutely hate it. But what you resist is that it forces you to look in the mirror. That what you see in them is a seed of yourself. Uh that is what you can’t stand and it is this glance. I have got to tell you where this has happened to me and because we are just being honest. This is our series. We are just like being transparent with before one another. Unfortunately I am the only one doing all the talking. It is time for you to write to me and tell me all your honesty. Okay every now and then….”
Chris Rosebrough, “Does she blink? I mean seriously I feel like I am watching a humming bird on crack or something. It just ah!”
Beth Moore, “Okay every now and then God will cause me to kind of have odd almost an obsessive stare at a woman who in her attempt to retain youth when youth was no longer possible she has completely disfigured her face….”
Chris Rosebrough, “Oh you like mean like Joyce Meyer! Whoops did I say that out loud.”
Beth Moore, “I am talking about disfiguring her face. I am talking about when you look at somebody and think what has happened that you can look in the mirror and you think that looks okay. I have got a very good a dear friend who is a dermatologist and she said you cannot know how many times we try to say to a patient, ‘It is not going to look good.’
And I ask you she said every now and then she just goes, ‘I am not. I can’t do it. You can have somebody else do it. But I am not doing it.’ Because when you do that you are honestly not going to look real. I don’t mean trying to work with what you have got. I am not talking about a little nipping and tucking here. I am talking about….”
Chris Rosebrough, “Alright pause right there. Do you know which passage of scripture she will be referencing with this introduction regarding our true selves. No idea yet okay I don’t know, just alright let’s continue….”
Beth Moore, “I am talking about a whole restructuring where somebody looks like they got on this weird mask and they got these implants in their face. They no longer have any nose at all and now when listen when your cheeks stick out further than your nose and your profile.
Something ain’t right. Is somebody with me on this? But see the Lord I almost get obsessed with it. Like I can’t quit looking at it, like if it is in an airport or something or in a restaurant or something sometimes Keith will go do I need to sit to the side where I can see better? Because what I know is bothering me is that I think the Holy Spirit is saying to me, ‘You want to be careful Beth don’t you?’ You know because I want to work out.….”
Chris Rosebrough, “So now we have got direct revelation you know coming into play here. God the Holy Spirit speaking directly to Beth Moore. Do you know which passage of scripture she is going to be teaching on yet regarding our true selves with this introduction? Any passages come to mind yet? Alright more data here we go.”
Beth Moore, “I like fun clothes. You know I want to have cool hip hair. I…you know where is the line? I don’t know. I don’t where it is. Because if somebody argued it with me and I would say, ‘Do you colour your hair?’ We wear makeup. Most of you guys don’t. Some of you do. I mean like where is the line? Because truly the only way you can know it in the culture that we live in is to walk in the Spirit enough to where God can say with His Holy Spirit within in you, ‘Uh hmm….’ and so the Lord will constantly when I am in a situation I am looking at someone that is just a few years older than me, that has kind of gone bizarre on it.
I will hear him say in my inner man, ‘Is that what you want? You better be careful….’
Chris Rosebrough, “So God the Holy Spirit is telling you is that what you want? You better be careful. Okay so you get direct revelation from God. Do you know which passage of scripture she is going to be teaching on yet? Nope not yet okay….”
Beth Moore, “You better be careful Beth. Stay this side of the line. Lord well I know where the line is and so I have got to deal with my daughters. My daughters are both in their early 30s. One is 30 and one is 32 and I have got to deal with them.
I say this is what I want you both to do, if mummy ever crosses the line and I no longer look like a normal person and you ever come home and I have got a small nose and listen I am not listen I am not talking about I am not dogging having a nose job. I listen I goodness knows I would love to have had one at some point. But by the time I had the money to I didn’t care anymore.
Does anybody know why that is not, but so I am not dogging any of that. But I am saying it is bizarre when somebody is anybody I need to see your hand if you know what I am talking about which is like bizarre, like woah! I mean let me tell you….by the time there is this whole big thing that came out a couple of years ago. 60 is sexy. I am going to tell you something. No it is not….”
Chris Rosebrough, “Okay any guesses as to which passage she is going to be teaching on yet? Nope okay more data. Let’s this is a tough one here you know because wait until you hear the passage. I mean supposedly this has something to do with a particular passage of scripture….”
Beth Moore, “Well pick your shirt up because it is really not. You know it is a lot of things. It is a lot of good things. But no sexy is not one of them. I can’t really even tell you 50 is sexy. I just can’t because you know it is not what it is about then. But we are trying to be that. It is a little gross and so I ask my am I telling you all the truth or am I making something up?
Is this just me being sensitive or have you seen it? And so I have made a deal with my daughters. My Amanda and Melissa I said, ‘Here is what I want you to do. If you ever like look at me and go, ‘Woah where is our mother?’ I want you to say, ‘Mother we love you so much. But you look like an idiot.’ That is all I am asking. I need somebody. Because see what we don’t like is just that we have to face something that is like a goliath size of something that is pent up inside of us and it is scary….”
Chris Rosebrough, “Alright now she has approached the podium here and there is a Bible on the podium. So I mean before she breaks out The Bible here, any final guesses as to which passage of scripture she is teaching on?
This is a tough one isn’t it huh? Because yeah I have no idea. Yeah I mean when you hear the….when you what passage of scripture she is supposedly teaching on I am well you might want to be careful here. I don’t want you to suffer from whiplash or anything. Here we go….”
Beth Moore, “Now I want to read the first three verses of Genesis 33 and….”
Chris Rosebrough, “Okay so Genesis 33 the first three verses. There it is that is the reference and if you have your Bible let’s take a look. Genesis 33 v 1-3, man I just okay man I am just working through my memory banks here. Genesis 33 that would be something to do with Jacob right?
Okay so it is before Joseph and clearly before Joseph. Definitely after Abraham, definitely after Isaac. So okay we are dealing with Jacob. Okay so what story comes to mind in the stories of Jacob that would warrant you going into a discussion on finding your true self and you know and you having a discussion about the importance of being real regarding plastic surgery, nose jobs, and coming to grips with the fact that 60 is not sexy. Okay so Genesis 33 v 1-3. Let me read them.
Genesis 33 v 1-3 (ESV – English Standard Version)
1 And Jacob lifted up his eyes and looked, and behold, Esau was coming, and four hundred men with him. So he divided the children among Leah and Rachel and the two female servants. 2 And he put the servants with their children in front, then Leah with her children, and Rachel and Joseph last of all. 3 He himself went on before them, bowing himself to the ground seven times, until he came near to his brother.
There you go. You see the connection yet? I don’t see any connection with what she led off with in this teaching about discovering our true selves and this passage. It doesn’t make any sense at all. But see that is kind of how things go nowadays among popular teachers within the visible church.
It doesn’t matter what any biblical text says because no sooner do you read a biblical text or you know you know you hover around it and circle the podium and yeah then you are off it talking about something that has nothing to do with it. So Genesis 33 v 1-3 apparently is telling us the importance of being careful with plastic surgery and stuff like that. Do you see the connection? I don’t let’s continue though. Let’s give Beth an opportunity to see if we can find out what is going on with her exegetical insights into this passage and what that has to do with that opening. Here we go….”
Beth Moore, “I am relieved and you are relieved because listen that was a painful few minutes we just spent wasn’t it? Was it painful that anybody besides me? I would love to hear what you men are relating on because there has got to be a way that relates to you guys as well.
Genesis 33 v 1-3, so here he goes walking out. We have got the sun coming up and the music is really playing loud. It is so powerful. The sun is rising you can see that sun coming up just like purple through that through the clouds and through that gorgeous ray of sun coming up and we see Jacob and he is limping and a lot of scholars will say there is no reason for us to think that he ever got over it….”
Chris Rosebrough, “Yeah he is limping because he just had a limping match with Jesus.”
Beth Moore, “Genesis 33 v 1-3, so here he goes walking out. We have got the sun coming up and the music is really playing loud. It is so powerful. The sun is rising you can see that sun coming up just like purple through that through the clouds and through that gorgeous ray of sun coming up and we see Jacob and he is limping and a lot of scholars will say there is no reason for us to think that he ever got over it.
I mean he was going to like pull out his leg. You know what I am saying? In those days a lot of times when there was an injury it just stayed and it just dogged them until their death and so in all likelihood he always kind of had a little bit of an unstable walk and it says….
Genesis 33 v 1-3 (ESV – English Standard Version)
1 And Jacob lifted up his eyes and looked, and behold, Esau was coming….
And I love this part because it goes ahead and tells us that the four hundred men sure enough four hundred men were with him.
Genesis 33 v 1 (ESV – English Standard Version)
….1 and four hundred men with him.
And so here is what Jacob did. Now we remember those of us who were in the first half of the series together. We know that he did a lot of conniving and planning and we are going to see how much he really brings to pass at this point. Because here is what happens….
Chris Rosebrough, “Yeah…..”
Beth Moore, “Because here is what happens is that he divides the children among the mothers. Here is Leah and Rachel and their children….”
Genesis 33 v 1 (ESV – English Standard Version)
1 So he divided the children among Leah and Rachel and the two female servants.
Chris Rosebrough, “Yeah again what did that introduction have to do with this passage? I do not see the connection. Do you see the connection? I don’t see the connection but this is how people supposedly preach The Bible nowadays. Their commentary the things they go off on have nothing to do with anything that is actually in the text and supposedly this is all about finding our true selves. This is what James Robison told us. But I mean does any of this make any lucid sense to you? It doesn’t make any sense to me….”
Beth Moore, “Here is what happens is that as he divides the children among the mothers. Here is Leah and Rachel and their children. Here is the servants with them and he put the servants with their children in front and Leah and her children and Rachel and Joseph last of all. But notice something very important here v3.
Genesis 33 v 3 (ESV – English Standard Version)
3 He himself went on before them, bowing himself to the ground seven times, until he came near to his brother.
He himself went on, what is the next word? Ahead of them. He went before them. Do you remember over and over? Check it out, all over Genesis 32. He was saying and Jacob he is coming behind us. Always hiding behind us, pushing us from the person we are not wanting to face. Have you ever really needed to face someone and not just because it is a biblical command to take another witness.
But because you wanted protection, you take a whole group with you so that person will be nice to you? Anybody only this time something has happened. Because this time Jacob is right up front. Because you see once we have wrestled with God and lived through it we can face almost anything.”
Chris Rosebrough, “Uh really supposedly Genesis 33 is telling us that once we have wrestled with God we can handle anything. I haven’t wrestled with God have you? Has God you know taken your hip joint and pulled it out of socket? I mean notice this is narcissistic eisegesis, just basically taking the text allegorizing it and then reading yourself into it as if this is somehow prescriptive for your life. It is not….”
Beth Moore, “He is ready to go face Him and what I just love is he faces Him. He walks on ahead of them with his limp and you know what occurred to me? You know we have all got a limp, we all do. I need you to know….”
Chris Rosebrough, “No I don’t. I don’t have a limp unless I pull a muscle in my leg. You know I don’t, I actually don’t walk with a limp. Do you walk with a limp? I don’t walk with a limp. So notice she reads the text. No sooner is it out that now she is off talking about us, as if somehow this passage somehow is telling me something about me. It is not…aye-yi-yi-yi….”
Beth Moore, “I need you to know I have got a limp. You don’t live 55 years on planet earth unscathed. Hurts happen, injuries happen….”
Chris Rosebrough, “Yeah Jacob had a for real actual bonafide limp. If we had you know took a film crew back into Canaan at that time and filmed this you know Jacob post wrestling with God in you know Genesis 33 at this event. If we were to record a family reunion on tape of the reunion between Jacob and Esau.
We would see him walking with a bonafide limp. She is not talking about a real limp here. She is talking about some figurative limp that you have in your life and this passage is not talking about that. Again she reads the text and now she is off topic talking about something.
She is not telling us what this text really says, what it means as if this passage has something to do with plastic surgery and 60 not being the new sexy and now you know talking about oh she has got a limp and I am watching her walk around the podium here on this television set and no she doesn’t have a limp….”
Beth Moore, “I need you to know I have got a limp. You don’t live 55 years on planet earth unscathed. Hurts happen, injuries happen, all of us have scars, all of us have wounds, all of us do. Life is tough. It is tough so we have all got a limp of some kind, wrestling through life on planet earth. But we do our best to hide it.
Why because I am going to tell you something actually we are going to see Esau run to him and I wonder if we could make the point that when we are not so careful to hide our limp and when we want everybody to think we have got it together. We are no longer even approachable….”
Chris Rosebrough, “Uh please….so the reason why Esau ran to Jacob was because Jacob had a limp and but had he not had a limp, he wouldn’t have been approachable. Does any of this make any sense to you? This is nonsense. This is gobbledygook. This isn’t exegesis. This isn’t proper hermeneutics. This is talking about yourself, allegorizing the biblical text and making it say things that they don’t say.
Do you think God had Moses write down Genesis 33 so that you can learn about the dangers of plastic surgery and the importance of walking with the limp so that you can be approachable by people? You get what I am saying.
I don’t need to go on and it is but this is just another example of it. I mean this weird thing that is going on in the church where people who are popular teachers. They don’t pay any attention whatsoever about what these texts really say and what they really mean.
They are more interested in talking about themselves and finding see the thing is that people who listen to this kind of teaching, they think they are being taught sound biblical doctrine. They think they are being good disciples of Jesus and are learning what The Bible says. No they are not, they are not learning what The Bible says at all. They are learning narcissistic nonsense, which is exactly what that is and it is like the favourite Bible twisting technique of most popular teachers in the visible church today and this is no way to study God’s word and to learn what it really says.
In fact this kind of teaching works against that goal of teaching you sound doctrine and what Christ really said and really taught and what The Bible really is about and what it really means. Something to consider…..
Alright we are up on our second break. If you would like to email me regarding anything you have heard on this edition or any previous editions of Fighting for the Faith. You can do so. My email address is firstname.lastname@example.org or you can subscribe on Facebook. www.facebook.com/piratechristian or follow me on Twitter. My name there is @piratechristian.