Fighting for the Faith With Chris Rosebrough – Joyce Meyer Waxes Word of Faith – part 1


Below is a transcript taken from Chris Rosebrough’s radio show podcast Fighting For The Faith Radio podcast which was originally broadcast on Monday July 15th 2013, which you can subscribe to on iTunes. I highly recommend you do this if you want to develop discernment. 

You can also watch the video of Joyce Meyer’s sermon – Your Mouth and God’s Power > http://youtu.be/AdpJzngXKQg 

Here is the video link for this transcript > http://youtu.be/dHfNjLgIxwM

First Segment [00:06:06 – 00:15:48]

Chris Rosebrough, “Let’s talk about what we are going to do on today’s episode of Fighting for the Faith. We are going to take the pirate ship out of dry dock, head to sea we have hoisted the main sail already and in fact we are land is quickly vanishing behind us as we are acquiring our next heretical targets if you would and what I thought I would do today on Fighting for the Faith is two things.

You know rather than you know kind of pepper you with different topics here in the first hour. You know take the ship out to sea and see you know, put her through her paces and see if we still have what it takes to do all this stuff. But there is two things I want to do today.

One is I want to circle back. Since a few weeks ago we talked about the kind of the oppressive slavery that occurs to people, the bondage that they are put into in the Word of Faith heresy and one of the most famous Word of Faith heretics out there is none other than Joyce Meyer. Now Joyce Meyer just before I went on vocation she spoke at Steven Furtick’s Code Orange Underground.

Now if you remember it was last year in January of last year. Steven Furtick had what I call at that time The Heresy Olympics and that is the best way I can put it and you know we even had awards that we handed out, medals that we handed out at the end of The Heresy Olympics and it was called The Code Orange Revival and Steven Furtick being the kind of guy that he is hating haters you know, because a hater is anybody who would dare to challenge what he is saying you know with God’s Word in context and sound biblical doctrine and things like that. Has decided to take the whole Code Orange Revival underground this year and I am all for that. I think that is great.

If he wants to keep it underground, he can put it under as many rocks as he wants and I am all fine with that, because at that point he is not really infecting the church at large with the you know the teachings of these heretics. He is only infecting his own church and they are already infected and probably beyond help anyway. But so he has take the entire endeavour to Code Orange and put it underground and it can stay there.

But you know the instalment of Code Orange Underground that happened just before I went on vocation he you know there were in fact on Steven Furtick’s Instagram account there is a photograph that somebody took with you know Joyce Meyer in the foreground and Steven Furtick’s sitting on a couch on the background and Steven Furtick has this huge cheesy, ‘Oh I am loving this,’ kind of grin going on thing and so anyway that is kind of all off topic.

But what we are going to do today is we are going to circle back and we are going to listen to a segment of Joyce Meyer’s teaching regarding words being containers. Words you know creating our future and stuff like that and once you buy into the Word of Faith heresy that words create your future, then what happens is that you no longer can speak the truth about what is going on in your life.

So if you buy into the Word of Faith heresy and you are suffering from you know maybe heart disease or high blood pressure and you go to the doctor and the doctor says, ‘Listen you have got to take these meds,’ and by the way this is not an off topic illustration.

I recently received an email from somebody whose father brought into the Word of Faith heresy and he had high blood pressure and heart problems and the email that I received from him was a really sad story of how this listener believes that the Word of Faith heresy killed his father. But see here is the idea is that you know it is a false belief that turns your faith into your faith. Basically it is faith in your faith. You know it is a strange thing and that is that you have got to muster up enough belief. That is the work that you have got to do.

Belief in your belief and then when God believes that you can believe enough, then what happens is that then you have earned the right for His blessings and things like that and of course you know since negative words create a negative future for you. You can’t say things like, ‘Oh you know listen I went to the doctor and the doctor said, ‘You know hey you have got high blood pressure. You are going to need to really get this addressed. There is procedures that we can do and maybe you are having heart problems and maybe one of your arteries is clogged.

That is okay. We can go in and we can with all of the technology we have and the procedures we have it will be an outpatient procedure. We will clear out your arteries and all that. But you can’t say, ‘Oh okay that is a great idea. I need to have my heart you know take a look at it. You know things like that. Because why because well you can’t say the negative thing. Because if you say the negative thing, it will create the negative outcome in your life and so the way to create a positive future is to only speak positively.

So what we are going to do is we are going to circle back and we are going to listen to Joyce Meyer talking about words that create your future. You know your words being containers and listen to her responding to a listener email. Now I have done. You know I have listened to this. In fact I have reviewed this response of hers on a past episode of Fighting for the Faith.

But I want to again circle back and with this idea that the Word of Faith heresy puts people in bondage so they cannot speak the truth about what is going on in their life. It creates this you know bondage where you are in bondage to the happy. You are in bondage to the positive. You can’t say the negative. You can’t say what a real thing really is and ultimately how that impacts their gospel presentation.

You know the quintessential example would be somebody like Joel Osteen. You never really Joel Osteen talking about sin now do you? Now well because that is negative and you know so it affects how they present the gospel. The reason being is that the good news is that Christ died for our sins, an example of somebody being justified is given by Jesus Himself and it is you know the story the parable The Pharisee and the Tax Collector.

The Pharisee sits there and says all these positive things about himself. (Luke 18 v 11) ‘Oh LORD I thank you that I am so great that I tithe and that I am not a sinner and that you know I am not like the evil person, like that tax collector over there.’

(Luke 18 v 13) Right but the tax collector can’t even look to heaven and his prayer is, ‘LORD have mercy on me a sinner.’ And God blesses and justifies. It is more than just a blessing, He justifies, He saves, He declares to be righteous well the tax collector and the tax collector his justification came through a negative confession. A confessing that he was a sinner. But if you believe that negative words create negative outcomes you can’t say that you are a sinner because what that will do is you are going to affirm that up and you are going to be a sinner for the rest of your life. That is going to destroy you.

No what does scripture say? If we say we have no sin the truth is not in us.

1 John 1 v 8-9 (ESV – English Standard Version)

If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

So the scripture tells us to speak truthfully about ourselves and in speaking truthfully about ourselves as being sinners. That is the penitent contrition and humbling and broken spirit and heart that God is looking for whereby then He says, ‘I forgive you.’ You see penitence and the forgiveness of sins go hand in hand and penitence of course is the ultimate speaking negatively of yourself. It is saying, ‘God I cannot by my own reason or strength come to you. God I am a sinner. I am sinful by nature. I sin against you in thought, word, and deed by what I do, by what I don’t do.

You know and so that negative confession. ‘If we say we have no sins, the truth is not in us. But if we confess our sins, God is faithful and just to forgive us.’

1 John 1 v 8-9 (ESV – English Standard Version)

If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

That negative confession about ourselves, saying that we have nothing. That we are spiritually impoverished, bankrupt if you would. It is that sign that the Holy Spirit has actually worked its work in your life and brought you to penitent to repentance and remorse for your sin and that is well that is goes hand in hand with the forgiveness of sins. Because as Christ says, ‘The one who exalts himself will be humbled, but the one who humbles himself will be exalted.’

Luke 14 v 11 (ESV – English Standard Version)

11 For everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, and he who humbles himself will be exalted.”

So the Word of Faith heresy has you constantly exalting yourself, saying how, ‘I am great. I am the head. I am not the tail. I am the cat’s meow. I am beautiful. I am skinny. I am rich. I am prosperous. I am healthy, wealthy and wise,’ and always exalting yourself as if somehow that proves to God that you somehow have believed Him. That is not what God’s Word teaches.

So like I said we will circle back listen to a little Joyce Meyer on this with that framework in mind that the Word of Faith heresy puts you in bondage to the positive and causes you to not be able to speak the truth about your situation and speak the truth about what you really are and that is a sinner and so ultimately it affects the gospel.

Second Segment [00:17:34 – 00:53:31]

Chris Rosebrough, “But with that we are going to dive into the programme proper and this is our Joyce Meyer update music. Here we go…..

[Plays intro music for Joyce Meyer]

             Wolfmother – Joker and Thief

I said the joker is a wanted man,
He makes his way all across the land,
See him sifting through the sand,

So I’ll tell you all the story,
About the joker and the thief of the night,

Always laughing in the midst of power,
Always living in the final hour,
There is always sweet in the sour,

We are not going home,

Can you see the joker flying over,
As she’s standing in the field of clover,
Watching out everyday?
I wonder what would happen if he took her away?

Alright Wolfmother Joker and The Thief. I think that is appropriate update music for Joyce Meyer. So the name of the teaching from Joyce Meyer’s television programme that we are going to be looking at today is entitled, hang on a second where did it go? There it is right there. Containers Called Words and you are thinking what an earth does that mean? Well the best way I can say it is I can’t exactly describe it to you. It is best if I just let Joyce Meyer explain it to you. So without any further or due. Here is Joyce Meyer talking about the Word of Faith heresy as if it is biblical teaching and it is not but listen in. Here we go….

Joyce Meyer, “Welcome to Enjoying Everyday Life. Romans 4 v 17 says that God speaks of the nonexistent things as if they existed.”

Chris Rosebrough, “Now I am going to stop right there. Yeah that is right God speaks of the things that are not as if they are. It doesn’t say we do. It says God does. Now see this is a category error and what I mean by that is that is this that God is God, we are not. We are not little gods.

Although Joyce Meyer has taught that we are that is not what the scriptures teach. In fact that is kind of the first lie of the devil going all the way back to the garden of Eden. Remember the temptation where you know when you know Satan says you know via the serpent to Eve….

Genesis 3 v 1 (ESV – English Standard Version)

1 Did God actually say, ‘You shall not eat of any tree in the garden’?”

And she says, ‘You know. Oh no but God said, ‘Don’t touch this one or eat of it. The day you surely die,’

Genesis 3 v 2 (ESV – English Standard Version)

And the woman said to the serpent, “We may eat of the fruit of the trees in the garden, but God said, ‘You shall not eat of the fruit of the tree that is in the midst of the garden, neither shall you touch it, lest you die.’”

And then Satan says, ‘No you will not surely die. But God knows that on the day that you will be like God.’

Genesis 3 v 4-5 (ESV – English Standard Version)

But the serpent said to the woman, “You will not surely die. For God knows that when you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.”

Okay we are not God. Okay God is an omnipotent, almighty powerful being. He is in a category completely different than we are. We are not deities. We are humans. We are creatures and scripture makes it clear that in our creation we are a little lower than the angels. That is you know so let’s kind of get the importance going on here. So when it says that God speaks of the things that are not as though they are….

Romans 4 v 17 (ESV – English Standard Version)

17 As it is written, “I have made you the father of many nations”—in the presence of the God in whom he believed, who gives life to the dead and calls into existence the things that do not exist

It does not then in that passage say, ‘Therefore you must speak of the things that are not as if they are….’ You know that is not how that works. God is capable through His almighty omnipotent power to speak the universe into existence and we find in Genesis that He did that in six days and days by the way you know what it means? Days yeah days and but we just because Romans says that God talks about the things, speaks about the things that are not as if they are, that does not mean that we are to do that. There is no prescription in scripture for us to do the same thing.

Joyce Meyer, “How about you? How do you talk about your future? This whole week we have been have been discovering that our words can and do have an impact on our lives and the lives of other people. Later in the programme we will have some teaching from Winstin Sail, North Carolina about little phrases that will help us build a better future.”

Chris Rosebrough, “Little phrases that will help us build a better future, wow….”

Joyce Meyer, “But right now Ginger has some viewer questions regarding our words. Ginger I bet you have got some good questions don’t you?”

Ginger Stache, “I have some great questions today. Thanks for letting us ask them. This comes from Brandy in Denver and Brandy says I have a question about the scripture, Proverbs 18 v 21, “Life and death are in the power of the tongue.”

Chris Rosebrough, “Which by the way is out of context…..”

Ginger Stache, “How can I share with God my hurts and securities, frustrations and pain in a healthy way, I want to stay honest with Him and receive the help that I need. But I don’t want to speak negative things at the same time.”

Chris Rosebrough, “Okay now did you catch that? What is this about? Okay Joyce Meyer teaches the Word of Faith heresy and she has now put people into the bondage of the positive. Okay so and she has done this via you know taking that passage from Proverbs out of context “Life and death are in the power of the tongue.”

As if that passage is basically saying you create your future via your words, either positive or negative. That is not what that passage says by the way. In fact what we might want to do here is take a look at it in context. Proverbs 18 v 21 by the way is the passage and let’s take a look at it real quick, so you understand what is going on.

Over and again I have to do this because people you know they will start listening to the programme and then whether or not we have addressed this in previous episodes of Fighting for the Faith. So sometimes I have to be redundant. Okay let me start at, we are going to apply our three rules of biblical interpretation or hermeneutics. They are context, context, context. So Proverbs 18 v 19.

Proverbs 18 v 19-23

19 A brother offended is more unyielding than a strong city, and quarrelling is like the bars of a castle. 20 From the fruit of a man’s mouth his stomach is satisfied; he is satisfied by the yield of his lips. 21 Death and life are in the power of the tongue, and those who love it will eat its fruits. 22 He who finds a wife finds a good thing and obtains favour from the Lord.

So the question is what is meant by death and life are in the power of the tongue? Is it saying therefore that means, that if you speak positive words positive things will happen to you? Answer no, the text actually doesn’t say that.

What it is talking about there is productive speech, speech that is satisfying, speech that you know that it is constructive and beneficial speech and then the consequences of speech. So what people say can lead to life or death and so this Proverbs affirms this point and then explains it, that those who love it will eat its root. The reference it must be the tongue. What the tongue says so that they who enjoy talking must bear its fruits whether good or bad.

So let me give you an example. Okay so you can tear somebody down with your words, alright and if you tear somebody down with your words they might you know decide that what they are going to do is let you pay for that and kill you for saying something they don’t like. That could potentially happen. So there is consequences to your speech. So the idea here is that if you are going to speak, do so in a way that is truthful, that is accurate, that takes thoughts captive or builds people up properly.

For instance let me give you another example. You know death and life are in the power of the tongue. If you are speaking the truth about God and not taking His name in vain, then you are preaching the gospel and properly speaking the truth about God and you are building people up. If you are speaking heresy and speaking false words you are tearing people down and actually poisoning their souls and endangering them in the fires of hell.

But death and life are in the power of the tongue, it is this is by the way, you are not going to find then in The New Testament passages that flesh this out and say, ‘Therefore if you want a good future, you must speak positive words.’ That is nowhere found in scripture and so here is the idea.

In order for a doctrine to be established in as biblical doctrine. It must be done so with a clear, ‘Thus sayeth the LORD.’ Okay so if this passage death and life are in the power of the tongue really meant that if you want to be healthy and prosperous, then you speak positive affirmations over your life and positively confess there would be other clear passages that teach that exact same doctrine. But there are not.

So coming back then to Joyce Meyer and this email question from a listener who has heard Joyce Meyer’s teaching regarding Proverbs 18 v 21 and now she is asking the question, ‘Well how do I speak about my life without saying negative things, so that I can have positive outcomes in my life.’ So notice this person emailing in is already in bondage to Joyce Meyer’s Word of Faith heresy teaching. This is not what The Bible teaches and now she is trying to figure out, ‘Well how do I speak about my life in a way that I don’t destroy my future.’ Listen again…..”

Ginger Stache, “I have some great questions today. Thanks for letting us ask them. This comes from Brandy in Denver and Brandy says, ‘I have a question about the scripture, Proverbs 18 v 21, “Life and death are in the power of the tongue.” How can I share with God my hurts and securities, frustrations and pain in a healthy way, I want to stay honest with Him and receive the help that I need.’

Chris Rosebrough, “I want to stay honest with God….”

Ginger Stache, “But I don’t want to speak negative things at the same time.”

Chris Rosebrough, “Yeah because if you do that somehow now your words are like magic. They create your future. Well what does Joyce Meyer say?”

Joyce Meyer, “One of the things that I tell people is that you can talk about a negative situation in a positive way.”

Chris Rosebrough, “Oh so now it is the art of learning how to talk about a negative situation in a positive way, so that you don’t cause a negative future to occur in your life.”

Joyce Meyer, “God doesn’t expect us not to talk to Him about the problem or to tell Him honestly when we are hurting. The Bible says that He desires truth in the inward being. So He wants us to be truthful with ourself and truthful with Him and even truthful with other people.

If I am having a problem and you say to me, ‘You look a little like maybe something is bothering you Joyce, are you okay?’ I don’t need to lie to you. I can say, “Yeah I am going through something right now but you know I really believe that God is on top of it.’ If I am praying and I believe He is going to work it out.

I don’t have to get negative about it. So yes….

Chris Rosebrough, “Yeah and by the way the reason she is saying you don’t have to get negative about it, because if you get negative about it, you will create that negative outcome in your life.’

Joyce Meyer, ‘We can talk to God about whatever is bothering us. But at the same time we can say but I know that your Word is true and I believe that you are going to work in this situation. If there is something you need me to do please show me and work through me to enable me to do it and I trust you.”

Ginger Stache, “Right….”

Joyce Meyer, “I trust you and I believe that it will all work out good.”

Ginger Stache, “There is a really important key in there that you are saying is God does want us to be truthful.”

Joyce Meyer, “Yes….”

Ginger Stache, “We have to be real.”

Joyce Meyer, “Yes….”

Ginger Stache, “We have to be real and even with our friends and people we love. But we can’t be throwing out those negative feelings everywhere we go.”

Chris Rosebrough, “Yeah then the reason why you can’t be throwing out those negative feelings because those negative words will create a negative future.”

Joyce Meyer, “Yeah and I think sometimes that Christians maybe who believe in positive confession or making sure that they say the right thing. If you get too spiritually weird with that you know it can come across wrong to people especially people who don’t understand and so they begin to think….”

Chris Rosebrough, “Come across wrong? The Bible doesn’t actually teach the positive confession doctrine anywhere in clear unambiguous language. The only way you can get to it is by proof texting vague passages and pouring this meaning into those passages. But they don’t actually say it when you look at what they are saying in context.”

Joyce Meyer, “Well you are not real, you are not even dealing with real life. I mean you are not even telling the truth.” That is why I think it is important to be truthful. But to be positive and also we don’t have to talk about our problems and talk about them and talk about them.”

Ginger Stache, “Right….”

Joyce Meyer, “You know even with God we can tell Him you know I am really hurting or tomorrow I can say I am still really hurting. You know but I believe that you are taking care of this. We can always talk about it in a positive way.”

Chris Rosebrough, “Yeah so just don’t whatever you do, don’t talk about it in a negative way because you will create that negative outcome. Okay what I am going to do right now I am going to change gears.

I am going to go backwards into the archives of Joyce Meyer’s programme just a few days to find out what exactly is she talking about here. These this power of words to and how we can’t speak negative things and how we can, we need to learn how to be authentic about what is going on in our lives. But don’t do it in a way that is negative. But speak about it in a way that is positive. What is this theology that she is spewing here? Well this is part and parcel of the Word of Faith heresy and Joyce Meyer is one of the purveyors of the Word of Faith heresy.

So here is from a previous episode of her programme called Your Mouth and God’s Power. Here is Joyce Meyer. Listen in…..”

Joyce Meyer, “Tonight in particular I want to talk to you about words and how they affect the anointing on your life or how they affect the power and the presence of God on your life.”

Chris Rosebrough, “So words affect God’s anointing on your life and the presence and power of God in your life, words do.”

Joyce Meyer, “I went to church for a lot of years and I never heard anything about the power of God. I never really heard the word anointing and that is sad because the Holy Spirit brings the anointing of God into our lives and that anointing, that power, that presence of God on our lives….”

Chris Rosebrough, “Yeah okay this is great. I want you to pay attention to what she is doing here. This is an assertion. She is not actually exegeting this out of a biblical text. So I don’t know what she is talking about. You know that you know our words have the power regarding God’s anointing on our life. Now I know about Jesus Christ Christos, the Greek word Christos χριστὸς means the anointed one. The Hebrew for this מָשִׁיחַ‎; mashiahmoshiahmashiach, or moshiach the anointed one.

So I know about the anointed one Jesus Christ. But what is she talking about when she is talking about our anointing. She is not teaching this from a biblical text that is talking about our anointing. So I am not sure what she is talking about and this is some kind of an assertion she is making without a text that she is exegeting it from.

That is always one of the major tactics of a false teacher. Rather than exegeting a passage and showing you what a passage says in context and drawing doctrine out of clear passages. They begin with their assertions and then go fishing for proof texts that support their assertions. This is not how biblical theology or Christian theology is done.”

Joyce Meyer, “I never really heard the word anointing and that is sad because the Holy Spirit brings the anointing of God into our lives and that anointing, that power, that presence of God on our lives in our lives and on our lives is one of the most precious gifts that we have. The presence of God in your life, the power of God that is in you and on you for whatever you need to do is the most precious thing that you have in your life and you must protect it. The power of God….”

Chris Rosebrough, “Hmm…okay and where does it say in scripture that this anointing is precious and I must protect the anointing? I don’t know of those passages. I don’t know what passages you are referring to….”

Joyce Meyer, “The power of God in our lives needs to be reverenced, honoured, and protected and one of the ways that we can do great damage to that beautiful anointing is by having a mixture in our life.”

Chris Rosebrough, “Now notice what she is going to do here. She is going to mix a few things together so that you can’t see the hook.”

Joyce Meyer, “Praising God when we are in church and singing all these songs and quoting scriptures….”

Chris Rosebrough, “That is the positive stuff….”

Joyce Meyer, “Praising God when we are in church and singing all these songs and quoting scriptures and hearing the Word and then going out and gossiping about people and being judgemental and critical.”

Chris Rosebrough, “Yes gossiping is a sin by the way. It is akin to murder.”

Joyce Meyer, “Praising God when we are in church and singing all these songs and quoting scriptures and hearing the Word and then going out and gossiping about people and being judgemental and critical and negative and murmuring and complaining and speaking all kinds of doubt and unbelief.”

Chris Rosebrough, “Speaking all kinds of doubt and unbelief. Huh yeah I am not sure we are dealing with a clear passage here. In fact I am pretty sure we are not.”

Joyce Meyer, “Are we all together on the same page? [Crowd says, ‘Yeah….’]

Chris Rosebrough, “Nope….”

Joyce Meyer, “We need to get rid of the mixture. You say….”

Chris Rosebrough, “Ah you have to get rid of the mixture. You can mix the positive and the negative uh…..”

Joyce Meyer, “You say a few things good, then the power starts to increase in your life. Then you say a few things negative and it decreases and goes back to zero.”

Chris Rosebrough, “Okay I have got to back that up so you can hear it without me interrupting. Wow was that horrible. Yeah listen in…..”

Joyce Meyer, “We need to get rid of the mixture. You say a few things good, then the power starts to increase in your life. Then you say a few things negative and it decreases and goes back to zero.”

Chris Rosebrough, “Okay so there is the Word of Faith heresy. ‘You say a few things good the power increases, you say a few negative things and it goes back to zero.’ Everything hinges on whether or not you are speaking positively or negatively. Yet there isn’t any passage in scripture that clearly says, ‘If you speak positive words, God’s power will positively increase in your life, but if you speak negative words then it will go down to zero. There isn’t a passage in scripture that says this.”

Joyce Meyer, “We have to get consistent in saying what God says. It is not about just saying anything we want to say. But learning how to say what God says and no matter how impossible it seems to us. When we read one of God’s promises in the Word the only thing that He wants to hear from us is, ‘I agree with you God. If you say that you can do that, then I believe that you can do that. It may be impossible with man, but all things are possible with God.’

Chris Rosebrough, “Yeah let me point something out here. Yes this is kind of basic when you confess that God is almighty, all-powerful, you are saying that all things are possible with Him. That though there is no clear promise in scripture that says as soon as you are able to confess that God is almighty, well then He is going to work in a powerful way in your life. There is no passage that says that.”

Joyce Meyer, “We have to learn how to come into agreement with God. Some of you are sitting in church week after week and you are watching my programme and you have even come to this conference and you so desperately need God to work in your life and you want to, but I can tell you it was this way in my life and I am not trying to insult you.”

Chris Rosebrough, “She is not pointing to a biblical passage now she is pointing to her own personal experience.”

Joyce Meyer, “I am trying to help you. You just keep digging in deeper with your own mouth. It doesn’t do any good just to hear somebody say it, you have got to learn to say what God says. The whole reason to hear the Word of God is so you can learn to say what God says. The Word of God in your mouth spoken out loud in faith is your number one most powerful weapon against the enemy. If you want to defeat the devil, you have to learn how to speak the Word.”

Chris Rosebrough, “Now this is interesting because there is an element of truth to this that is mixed in with some error and what I mean by this is that when we talk about the armour of God, the Word of God is the sword of the Spirit. The Word of God so we are to say the same things that scripture says, but she is not here.

She has basically created a magic theology and she is actually one of the purveyors of this. I don’t think she created it herself, a magic theology that if you can stay and believe the promises of God that it becomes a powerful talisman. The Word of God is a talisman in this way. You say the same thing. It is the spell book. Once you can believe it within your heart enough then the spell itself will work. This is witchcraft. This is absolutely the same kind of witchcraft that you see in Wicca and other things.”

Joyce Meyer, “Not speak what you feel, not speak what you think, not speak what people tell you, but the Word of God. Anybody can have the promises of God fulfilled in their lives….”

Chris Rosebrough, “If…..”

Joyce Meyer, “If they will learn how to come into agreement with God.”

Chris Rosebrough, “There you go, so this is a works based religion. Okay plain and simple. Anybody can have the promises of God fulfilled in their life, if and then you have got to come, you have got to….you have got to….this is all law. This is not gospel and it is a complete twisting of God’s Word. Nowhere in scripture does it say this. God’s gifts are not contingent upon you. He is the giver. They do not have their origin in you and God is not sitting up in heaven waiting for you to do something.”

Joyce Meyer, “To do what God tells you to do and to say what God says amen….”

Chris Rosebrough, “No I cannot say amen to this. This is blasphemy.”

Joyce Meyer, “Proverbs 18 v 21 says, “The power of life and death are in the tongue.”

Chris Rosebrough, “Again I have pointed this out. When you look at this in context, you read a good commentary on it. It is very clear what is being talked about here is not that this is saying that if you speak positive things, positive things will happen to you. If you speak negative things then God’s power will whoosh, vanish. That is not what this text says.”

Joyce Meyer, “Now we are going to look at those scriptures a little more completely in other messages. Tonight I am going to kind of lay a foundation and talk to you about this the anointing on our lives and the importance of maintaining that anointing. I think today there is probably even a good number of people that don’t even really know what the anointing is, well Christ is called the anointed one.”

Chris Rosebrough, “Yes he is.”

Joyce Meyer, “That is what the word Christ means the anointed one. Jesus the anointed one and the anointing, the power of God, the Holy Spirit was sent to represent Jesus when Jesus went to heaven and sat at the Father’s right hand. He is the presence of God. When we…..”

Chris Rosebrough, “Again what passage are you exegeting from Joyce? I am not familiar with these passages that say this.”

Joyce Meyer, “When we feel the presence of God. When we are singing these beautiful worship songs, that is the Holy Spirit in our midst. When you feel or sense the power of God on you to do something that you need to do. That is the presence of God coming on your life….”

Chris Rosebrough, “How do you know you are not being deceived by the devil and that this is really just the devil masquerading as an angel of light, making you feel something.”

Joyce Meyer, “That is the presence of God coming on your life to help you and enable you to do what you need to do and the more you agree with God the more power is going to be released in your life.”

Chris Rosebrough, “Oh man what passage of scripture says the more you agree with God the more power will be released in your life? There isn’t one. This is by the way what it means to take God’s name in vain. This is blasphemy. The Bible nowhere says this.”

Joyce Meyer, “Let’s look at Luke 1 v 11….”

Chris Rosebrough, “Okay let’s take a look at Luke 1 v 11.”

Joyce Meyer, “Luke 1 beginning in v11….

Luke 1 v 11-13 (AB – Amplified Bible)

11 And there appeared to him an angel of the Lord, standing at the right side of the altar of incense. 12 And when Zachariah saw him, he was troubled, and fear took possession of him. 13 But the angel said to him, Do not be afraid, Zachariah, because your petition was heard, and your wife Elizabeth will bear you a son,

Now he has been praying for something that when God tells Him, He is about to get it, he won’t believe God. Have you ever prayed for something and then when you get it you say, ‘I just can’t believe that.’ Well why are we praying if we are not expecting and believing God to do something?

Luke 1 v 13-16 (AB – Amplified Bible)

13 Your petition was heard, and your wife Elizabeth will bear you a son, and you must call his name John [God is favourable].14 And you shall have joy and exultant delight, and many will rejoice over his birth, 15 For he will be great and distinguished in the sight of the Lord. And he must drink no wine nor strong drink, and he will be filled with and controlled by the Holy Spirit even in and from his mother’s womb. 16 And he will turn back and cause to return many of the sons of Israel to the Lord their God,

And I mean a roundabout now Elijah, I mean Zachariah should have been just hopping up and down inside like woah help praise the LORD, he is alert exceedingly abundantly above and beyond. I just asked for a child, but I am going to get a famous one.

             Luke 1 v 17 (AB – Amplified Bible)

17 And he will [himself] go before Him in the spirit and power of Elijah,

Him he was talking about the Saviour.

Luke 1 v 17 (AB – Amplified Bible)

17 To turn back the hearts of the fathers to the children, and the disobedient and incredulous and unpersuadable to the wisdom of the upright [which is the knowledge and holy love of the will of God]—in order to make ready for the Lord a people [perfectly] prepared [in spirit, adjusted and disposed and placed in the right moral state].

He is telling him and your son this child that you have been praying for is going to be the forerunner for the Saviour. He is going to go ahead of Him and prepare the way.”

Chris Rosebrough, “Now I am going to pause here for a second. If you have not heard my lecture series on how to not be snookered and bamboozled and hoodwinked by religious conmen, snake oil and salesmen and stuff like that. Go look that up on the Fighting for the Faith website. Just type in the word snookered you will find it and in there and four lectures I lay out the sound biblical exegetical you know principles, that the idea here and here is the idea.

She is preaching or she shouldn’t be preaching from a historical narrative. Okay and here is the analogy that I use alright if you were to just read the historical narrative accounts of the death of Jesus Christ, would you know the theological significance of that historical event? Answer no you need a theological explanation of a historical narrative to give us what is going on theologically here.

Okay now it is important to note this. That what where she is going to go with this Zachariah, doesn’t believe and he doubts the word that the angel spoke. Okay yet the angel was sent directly from the throne of God alright and as a result of it God or the angel punishes him by basically making it impossible for him to speak until John is born. Basically knots up his tongue and makes it so he can’t talk and that is a punishment for not believing.

Now that being the case she is going to use this here to try and basically say, ‘Well see this is about positive confession.’ No it is not. This not a text about positive confession, okay because here is the deal it says early on in The Gospel of Luke’s account here that Zachariah and his wife prayed. They didn’t declare, they petitioned God. Let me read the text again. I will start at Luke 1 v 8.

Luke 1 v 8 (ESV – English Standard Version)

Now while he was serving as priest before God when his division was on duty, according to the custom of the priesthood, he was chosen by lot to enter the temple of the Lord and burn incense.10 And the whole multitude of the people were praying outside at the hour of incense. 11 And there appeared to him an angel of the Lord standing on the right side of the altar of incense. 12 And Zechariah was troubled when he saw him, and fear fell upon him. 13 But the angel said to him, “Do not be afraid, Zechariah, for your prayer has been heard,

Your prayer, not your proclamation, not your positive confession, your prayer is a petition. It is a request. It is humbly asked for. So the idea here is that even though Elizabeth, his wife and him they were blameless before God and righteous before God and blameless before others. They had no child and despite the fact that they had prayed and requested of God that they have a child.

They have become old in age and here the angel is basically saying, ‘God has heard your request, your prayer, your petition and He is answering it in the affirmative.’ Okay so this isn’t a story about positive or negative confession. This is a story about God answering a prayer and Zachariah not believing the word of the Lord. Even though an angel came and delivered that word. Okay big difference as opposed to your words create a positive you know outcome either good or bad, that is not the case at all.

Joyce Meyer, “Zachariah said to the angel v18….

Luke 1 v 18 (AB – Amplified Bible)

18 And Zachariah said to the angel, By what shall I know and be sure of this?

Prove it to me God.

Luke 1 v 18 (AB – Amplified Bible)

18 For I am an old man, and my wife is well advanced in years.

So here he has been praying for a child. But he already thinks he is too old to have one. He thinks his wife is too old. So look what happens?

Luke 1 v 19-20 (AB – Amplified Bible)

19 And the angel replied to him, I am Gabriel. I stand in the [very] presence of God, and I have been sent to talk to you and to bring you this good news. 20 Now behold, you will be and will continue to be silent and not able to speak till the day when these things take place, because you have not believed what I told you; but my words are of a kind which will be fulfilled in the appointed and proper time.

So God supernaturally shut Zachariah’s mouth and I wouldn’t mind to have a little of that sometime myself amen and He had to do it in order for His plan to come to pass in his life.…”

Chris Rosebrough, “No it did not, the text did not say that the angel had to shut his mouth in order for the plan to come about. It does not say that at all in the text. Let me read it. Let me continue reading. Luke 1 v 18…..

Luke 1 v 18-20 (ESV – English Standard Version)

18 And Zechariah said to the angel, “How shall I know this? For I am an old man, and my wife is advanced in years.” 19 And the angel answered him, “I am Gabriel. I stand in the presence of God, and I was sent to speak to you and to bring you this good news. 20 And behold, you will be silent and unable to speak until the day that these things take place, because you did not believe my words, which will be fulfilled in their time.”

So what was the reason according to v20 that Zachariah his mouth was silenced? Because he didn’t believe the words of the angel, it doesn’t say, ‘In order that the My words have to be fulfilled. I have to shut your negative mouth up.’ That is not what the text says at all. She is inserting that into the text and it is not in there.

Joyce Meyer, “The birth of this child was so important as a forerunner to the Messiah and he could see, the angel could see from Zachariah’s initial response that his first words that there was not much chance of that man verbally cooperating with the plan of God….”

Chris Rosebrough, “He didn’t need to verbally cooperate with the plan of God.”

Joyce Meyer, “The birth of this child was so important as a forerunner to the Messiah and he could see, the angel could see from Zachariah’s initial response that his first words that there was not much chance of that man verbally cooperating with the plan of God and so God had to shut his mouth and I just wonder how many of us….”

Chris Rosebrough, “Wow this is blasphemous!”

Joyce Meyer, “And I just wonder how many of us mess up the plan of God for our life. Come on now. I just wonder how many wonderful things God has had planned and how many things He has planned now that if you were not at this conference you would surely mess up by saying things that you shouldn’t say. But thank God because….”

Chris Rosebrough, “Man this is again this is an utter blasphemous twisting of the story. Nowhere in scripture does it say you are going to mess up God’s plans for your life if you say negative words. This is putting every one of these people in bondage to the positive without an actual biblical passage that says, ‘Your words create the future either positive or negative.’ Nowhere in The Bible does it actually say that and quoting Proverbs 18 v 21, ‘Death and life are in the power of the tongue.’ That is a half sentence by the way. That passage actually doesn’t say that either if you would take the time to read it.

Joyce Meyer, “But thank God because you are here this weekend God is not going to have to supernaturally shut your mouth. You are going to learn. Is anybody with me tonight? How many of you see that? Well I guess I just better shut your mouth right now or we are never going to get this done.”

Chris Rosebrough, “Okay I am going to pause it right there and take my break and we will actually have to revisit this full Word of Faith teaching on the part of Joyce Meyer and spend some more time in future instalments of Fighting for the Faith, unpacking the rest of this false teaching. Utterly blasphemous!

No it does not say in the biblical text that God couldn’t do what He was going to do unless He shut the mouth of Zachariah because Zachariah wasn’t speaking positive things, that is not what the text says at all and her twisting of God’s Word is absolutely deceitful, duplicitous and blasphemous.

Okay we are up on our first and only break today and again the programme is a little off. If you would like to email me regarding anything you have heard on this edition or any previous editions of Fighting for the Faith you can do so my email address is talkback@fightingforthefaith.com or you can subscribe on Facebook – facebook.com/piratechristian or you can follow me on Twitter. My name there is @piratechristian.

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