Fighting For The Faith With Chris Rosebrough – Joyce Meyer’s Power Thoughts
Here is the video of this transcript > http://youtu.be/9a-kIl-Um-8
If you want to listen to the full podcast just subscribe to the Fighting For The Faith Podcast in iTunes. The name of this episode is Joyce Meyer’s Power Thoughts which was originally broadcast on 05/12/2012 – Wednesday December 5th 2012.
Debunking Joyce Meyer’s Power Thoughts – As a Man Thinketh
[First Segment – 00:08:36 – 00:08:49]
Chris Rosebrough, “If time permitting I have got a Joyce Meyer update that I want to listen to and just kind of point out some of the obvious problems here. It is entitled Power Thoughts by Joyce Meyer.”
[Second Segment – 00:39:34 – 01:01:13]
Chris Rosebrough, “Time for a Joyce Meyer update……”
[Plays intro music for Joyce Meyer]
Wolf Mother – Joker and Thief
I said the joker is a wanted man,
He makes his way all across the land,
See him sifting through the sand,
So I’ll tell you all the story,
About the joker and the thief of the night,
Always laughing in the midst of power,
Always living in the final hour,
There is always sweet in the sour,
We are not goin’ home,
Can you see the joker flying over,
As she’s standing in the field of clover,
Watching out everyday?
I wonder what would happen if he took her away?
Chris Rosebrough, “Alright yeah that is our Wolf Mother – Joker and The Thief. Okay, alright so let me set this up for you. Well Joyce Meyer has a television programme. If you haven’t seen it, it is well just quite the thing to watch. That is all I can say about it. It is kind of a theological train wreck of the worst magnitude and the reason for this well actually there is multiple reasons. But we could talk about some of the primary reasons.
Number one Joyce Meyer claims to be a pastor and The Bible forbids such a thing. There are no such things as female pastrixes. God’s Word does not allow for that. But on top of it she is a Word of Faith heretic, which means that her theology is truly tainted with some really nasty heresy and this is an example from an episode from September entitled Power Thoughts and see if you can make heads or tails of this teaching at least biblically, because what is really missing here is Bible and I will kind of cue you in as to what she is about to do.
She is going to be teaching to a large audience and she is not going to open up her Bible. She is going to be opening her book entitled Power Thoughts. So this is a large venue. She has got quite the crowd going on here and she is going to teach us not The Bible, but her book. Listen in…..”
Joyce Meyer, “How many of you have read Power Thoughts, the book Power Thoughts?”
Chris Rosebrough, “No I haven’t.”
Joyce Meyer, “Okay…..”
Chris Rosebrough, “After hearing this episode of your television I wouldn’t wish that my worst enemy would read it.”
Joyce Meyer, “Well I hope you don’t mind this, but I am going to teach out of this book.”
Chris Rosebrough, “Yeah rather than The Bible, uh hmmm…..that should cue you in on a few things here. Beware of Christian pastors, pastrixes, teachers and stuff like that who get up and open up their book to teach you from their book. The job of a pastor is not to teach you from their book. The job of a pastor is to teach you from God’s book, not their book – God’s book. Big difference.”
Joyce Meyer, “This weekend and even though you have read the book. I can guarantee you that I will say things that are not in the book and you are going to get some different things out of it.”
Chris Rosebrough, “Oh what a bonus. Extra bonus heresy on top of it, huh that sounds great.”
Joyce Meyer, “I believe that this is one of the most important things that we can teach people that their thoughts…..”
Chris Rosebrough, “Oh I am sure you do. Yes I mean how convenient. You think that the whatever is taught in Power Thoughts is one of the most important things that we can teach people, hmm….you are not biased or anything. It is not like you are making royalties from the sale of every one of those books, are you?”
Joyce Meyer, “I believe that this is one of the most important things that we can teach people that their thoughts are extremely powerful and not only that their thoughts are powerful. But your thoughts are actually in turn your life in the future.”
Chris Rosebrough, “Uh hmmm….my thoughts turn into my life in the future. Hmmm….law of attraction here….”
Joyce Meyer, “I am sure we have heard the saying, “Well it is all in your mind.” Well to be honest a lot of our successes are victories are all in our mind. That is where they start.”
Chris Rosebrough, “Uh huh yeah, have you got some Bible passages that say this in context?”
Joyce Meyer, “You can think yourself into a mess.”
Chris Rosebrough, “Really think my way into a mess. Okay…..”
Joyce Meyer, “You can think yourself into a place of victory.”
Chris Rosebrough, “Oh so I can think my way into victory who knew it was like chess you know.”
Joyce Meyer, “One of the reasons why people buy so many resources on the mind is because it is one of the hardest areas in our life, to get under control and to keep under control. I actually believe that we will daily have to choose to not think wrong things and to think right things and it is something that you have to do on purpose. You can’t just think…..”
Chris Rosebrough, “Yeah you have got to think those right things so that you know you can create an extraordinary great future for yourself.”
Joyce Meyer, “You can’t just think it is just going to happen. You don’t get it just by praying. It is something that you have to do on purpose.”
Chris Rosebrough, “By the way do you know who used to work for Joyce Meyer? David Crank of Faith church, Saint Louis, he used to work for her. That is not a surprise is it?”
Joyce Meyer, “The mind is the battlefield. It is the area where Satan attacks us. If he can get us to believe lies, then we are deceived and deception is terrible because you are believing something that is not true. But it becomes your reality.”
Chris Rosebrough, “Uh hmmm…….”
Joyce Meyer, “Now let me I want to…..”
Chris Rosebrough, “Now I agree Satan is a liar, but what kind of lies are you talking about here?”
Joyce Meyer, “Now let me I want to make it clear to you. There are people here that are deceived. There are people watching my TV that are deceived.”
Chris Rosebrough, “I agree with you. I believe there is a lot of people there watching you and listening to you who are deceived. Any of the people that are present thinking that you are actually teaching something that is taught in God’s Word, they are deceived. This in fact, probably the majority of people sitting there in that audience they are deceived. I agree with you Joyce.”
Joyce Meyer, “You maybe a Christian, you may have been in church for twenty years. But there maybe areas in your life where you are deceived, for example I will just give you one example from my life. I was abused in my childhood by my dad sexually in many other ways and so I believed the lie that Satan told me, that I would always have a second rate life.”
Chris Rosebrough, “Hmmm….boy yeah, oh that is terrible. I mean can you believe Satan would tell you, you would have a second rate life wow. Man I mean you know Satan is apparently given up on like you know the importance stuff like trying to deceive you about who Jesus is and what Jesus has done, who God is and what He has done. Yeah now he has you believing things like, “Oh you are going to have a second rate life. No that is a Satanic lie from the pit of hell.” Uh huh yeah.”
Joyce Meyer, “I just, I believed that I would always have, not as good a life as I could have had. That I was broken, I had been messed up. I was damaged merchandise now and that probably no man would ever want me and if I ever did get married. When they found out what had happened to me, then they wouldn’t want me anymore and so even though that is not true at all according to the Word of God and we can see the life that God has given me now. One that is far superior to anything that I…..”
Chris Rosebrough, “Oh yeah you are the ultimate example. I mean you are wealthy. You are on television. You can afford plastic surgery. Yeah see you are living proof uh huh….”
Joyce Meyer, “One that is far superior to anything that I could ever imagine. I had to let God change my thinking before any of that would take place. You have got to learn how to think right, before you can live right.”
Chris Rosebrough, “Uh hmmm…..so my problem is stinking thinking. Uh huh notice that this is very much a kin to the false doctrine taught by Joel Osteen, Oprah, Steven Furtick, and others.”
Joyce Meyer, “God has got a good plan for your life. But if you don’t believe it, God is not going to be able to do it. You can’t…..”
Chris Rosebrough, “Oh yeah what a lame God! What an absolutely inept, completely powerless like incompetent God that is. I mean there is God up in heaven. You know He wants to help you so bad. But He can’t. Yeah He is completely powerless, because you just don’t have good thinking. No there is nothing you can do about it, until you are willing to engage in power thoughts. Oh poor God He is just up there. You know let me pull out my Holy Spirit impersonation. Hi this is the Holy Spirit and I just want to let you know that I really wanted to help you.
But you have got to understand my hands are tied and there is not much I can do to help you. If you are not willing to engage in power thoughts, if you are going to believe that devil and he tells you things like, “you are going to have a second rate life.” Oh please don’t believe Him. I really want to help you. But I am powerless until you come to the conclusion that I really have a good plan for you. But I am powerless to give it to you, until you like think powerful thoughts about yourself and things like that. So please give me a shot please. I really want to help you. But I can’t. I can’t until you have some power thoughts. So just get those power thoughts going and it will be like tagging me on the hand and saying, “Go Holy Spirit. You can help me now and you see once you do that, then I at least will be able to help you. But you know I am, again my hands are tied. I can’t do anything until you do that. Uh huh.”
Joyce Meyer, “You can’t think it is for somebody else. You have to believe and understand that it is for you.
Proverbs 23 v 7
That a man thinks in his heart, so is he.
Chris Rosebrough, “Yeah out of context, you know I have got to do this. Proverbs 23 v 7, when you hear somebody quote it out of context, that is almost like a dead giveaway, that is like a dead giveaway that what you are hearing is the Word of Faith heresy. Okay let’s go back and take a look at that from a good translation and put it into context. Again it is Proverbs 23 v 7 which you will notice if you are paying attention to the grammar in The Bible, v7 begins with the word for and you will notice that the verse before it ends with a comma, which means v7 begins in the middle of a sentence and that sentence begins in v6. Okay so let’s take a look at what it says, when we look at this in context.
Proverbs 23 v 7 (ESV – English Standard Version)
6 Do not eat the bread of a man who is stingy;
do not desire his delicacies,
7 for he is like one who is inwardly calculating.
“Eat and drink!” he says to you,
but his heart is not with you.
You are going wait a second Chris. That doesn’t sound anything like what Joyce Meyer is trying to make it say. Right, because what Joyce Meyer has done here is she decided to quote this out of context, using the King James. Okay and here is what it says in King James.
Proverbs 23 v 7 (KJV – King James Version)
7 For as he thinketh in his heart, so is he:
But you see that is the only part that she quoted. Let me read it to you in context from the King James and you will see what is going on here. Okay.
Proverbs 23 v 6-7 (KJV – King James Version)
6 Eat thou not the bread of him that hath an evil eye, neither desire thou his dainty meats: 7 For as he thinketh in his heart, so is he: Eat and drink, saith he to thee; but his heart is not with thee.
So what is going on Proverbs 23 v 7 is not some principle about you learning how to think power thoughts, far from it. What this passage is really talking about is beware of a stingy person because stingy people, even though on the outside, they will tell you something like, “Hey feel free to eat anything you like in my house. That person is stingy and greedy. They don’t mean it. So when you open up their fridge and start eating their food they are going to be really mad at you. Because they don’t actually say what they are thinking and so the way you can tell is how a person, what you know what a person really like is what is in their heart and you have to you know get to know them a little bit better. That is what is going on in Proverbs 23. So whenever somebody quotes Proverbs 23 v 7 out of context, as if it is a full complete thought that is a dead giveaway that they believe the Prosperity Word of Faith heresy and they are twisting God’s Word.
Let me back this up so that you can hear you know her misuse this verse and now what you know what it says in context. It makes all that much more deplorable, what she is doing here.”
Joyce Meyer, “You can’t think it is for somebody else. You have to believe and understand that it is for you.
Proverbs 23 v 7
That a man thinks in his heart, so is he.
Well I like to say where the mind goes the man follows.”
Chris Rosebrough, “Uh huh okay yeah. I am glad you like to say that.”
Joyce Meyer, “Perhaps you came to this weekend Pennsylvania. If you came here thinking about chocolate, you will get it before you leave. Now that is just the way it is. We become what we think. The way you talk to yourself, self talk and we all have it. The way you talk to yourself is one of the most important things in your life.”
Chris Rosebrough, “So if you follow this teaching. What is the focus of your mind at this point? What are you meditating on? Who are you thinking about constantly then if you buy into this teaching? Answer you are constantly thinking about yourself and your self talk. You are not thinking about Christ. You are not thinking about God. You are not thinking about Jesus. You are not thinking about what the Bible says in context. No the focus of your mind is all about, “Oh what am I saying about myself and in turn what is my self talk?” This turns you back on yourself.”
Joyce Meyer, “You can never get beyond what you think.”
Chris Rosebrough, “Hogwash, baloney, there isn’t a passage that says that. That is not even true in real life.”
Joyce Meyer, “Especially what you think about yourself. You can never get beyond, you can never be greater than what you think of yourself. Thinking prepares us for action. If you think about what somebody has done to you long enough, the next time you see them you are going to show anger. You are going to say something that maybe you shouldn’t say. You are going to behave in a way that would not be appropriate to behave. We have to learn and I don’t want you to miss this, this is one of the important things in this book, which by the way is available for you this weekend. We have stacks and stacks of them because I want…..”
Chris Rosebrough, “Oh yeah so generous of her yeah, stacks and stacks of them.”
Joyce Meyer, “I want everybody to go home with one.”
Chris Rosebrough, “Right for a fee.”
Joyce Meyer, “You say why should I buy if you are going to preach out of it? Because to think that you can hear something once and you have got it, or to think that you can read something once and you have got it. Is one the biggest mistakes that we make.”
Chris Rosebrough, “Right so that is the reason why you need to buy her book. Yeah because you don’t want to make that mistake, just because you heard her preach on it, doesn’t mean you are going to get it. You have got to get her book and read it.”
Joyce Meyer, “We think too highly of ourselves and it takes over and over something to retrain our mind or as The Bible says to renew our mind.”
Chris Rosebrough, “So the way I renew my mind is by reading your book over again, got it. Just want to make sure we got that straight.”
Joyce Meyer, “I read something interesting just this morning in another book that I was reading. He said ninety percent of what we do is done out of our subconscious, it is done out of habit.”
Chris Rosebrough, “And this wasn’t then The Bible that you were reading was it?”
Joyce Meyer, “That once something is in your subconscious you can never get it out. But you can dilute it.”
Chris Rosebrough, “Okay and how do I dilute it, with water?”
Joyce Meyer, “So it is like if you have a poisonous stagnant pool of water, which is what some of our minds was like before God got into our life and started trying to teach us how to think right. How many of you would say that is right? Your mind was like a stagnant pool of dirty water. I mean suspicious and wrong imaginations and wicked thoughts and anger and greed and….”
Chris Rosebrough, “You mean all the stuff that happens to people who are born dead in trespasses in sins? Born with a condition of sin right?”
Joyce Meyer, “You know distrust and all these things. So it is like a stagnant stinking pool of water. But what you can do is you can pour chlorine into that water and you put enough of that in there and you can purify to the point where it can actually be drinkable.”
Chris Rosebrough, “It sure won’t taste good. Okay so I all I need is some spiritual chlorine, where do I get that?”
Joyce Meyer, “It is the same way with your mind. Those thoughts may always be there. Somewhere in your subconscious, but you can put so much of the Word of God in you.”
Chris Rosebrough, “Yeah if that is the important thing. Don’t you think that you should be teaching the Word of God, not that you are supposed to be. But I mean if this was really all about the Word of God, don’t you think you should be teaching it and already I mean like the first time out of the shoot you had an opportunity to quote God’s Word, you misquoted it, twisted it, made it teach something it doesn’t teach. So yeah I agree with you. We probably should have our minds filled with the Word of God. That is a very good thing to do. I just don’t think that you are going to help me achieve that objective by, I think if anything you are going to falsely teach me God’s Word and have me focus on myself, rather than what God’s Word really teaches in context. You get what I am saying.”
Joyce Meyer, “You can renew your mind…..”
Chris Rosebrough, “I mean for heaven sake if the Word of Faith heresy was really Christianity then how come no other church fathers taught it? You know what I am saying?”
Joyce Meyer, “You can renew your mind to such a degree that all that old stuff will never come up because the first thing that is going to come up in you is the truth of God’s Word amen. So we have to learn how to think on purpose.”
Chris Rosebrough, “Uh huh yeah hmm….okay….”
Joyce Meyer, “Because one of the greatest times in my life, because I had no idea that I could do my own thinking…..”
Chris Rosebrough, “What you didn’t do your own thinking?”
Joyce Meyer, “I never even thought about where my thinking came from. I went to church for years and years and didn’t know that the devil would put thoughts in my mind and that if I didn’t know the Word of God I wouldn’t know how to recognize when he was lying to me and so therefore I would just I just lived according to what I thought. If I woke up in the morning and thought, “I feel depressed.” Then I was depressed all day. If you know I got…..”
Chris Rosebrough, “Oh yeah that is wow, terrible that your church would let you do that.”
Joyce Meyer, “If you know I got angry at Dave. I didn’t have any ability to control my own thoughts and be rational and logical according to the Word of God. I would just spend the next two or three days angry, until you know.”
Chris Rosebrough, “How awful that your church let you do that.”
Joyce Meyer, “Some other new thought came and I found somebody else to be angry at and it was such an amazing thing for me when I realised that everything in my head was not something from me. It was not something from my circumstances, much of it was just Satan dumping stuff into my brain.”
Chris Rosebrough, “Hmmm…..so yeah you are a victim of Satanic data dump into your brain who knew? I mean yeah and you wake up and you are feeling depressed. That is Satan causing you to feel depressed. It has nothing to do with you, you are just a morally neutral person, going about your everyday business and Satan he wants to just take you captive and pour into your mind the toxins of stinking thinking. Oh man how an earth is this woman the multimillionaire that she is? I mean why is it that anybody thinks that this is biblical Christianity and what she is teaching is true? It is just absurd and it is really easy to demonstrate that this isn’t biblical teaching.
Number one she isn’t teaching from The Bible and number two nine times out of ten when she is quoting The Bible she is doing it out of context and making it say stuff it don’t say huh [sighs] and the thing that should be tipping you off to the fact that is what you should be expecting from her is the fact that she ponces herself off as well a Christian pastor. When The Bible clearly says that women are not to be such things.”
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