Fighting For The Faith With Chris Rosebrough – Why Was Andy Stanley on Joyce Meyer’s Programme?
The following is a segment transcript taken from a Fighting For The Faith podcast mp3 that was broadcast on Friday October 18th 2012. If you want to listen to mp3 you just need to subscribe the Fighting For The Faith podcast in iTunes. Just skip to – 00:12:38 to listen to the first segment. This lasts up until 00:13:10. The second segment is kind of a mini sermon review. To listen to this just skip to 00:41:38. The segment lasts until the time 00:56:18.
You can watch the video of this transcript on youtube http://youtu.be/dzMOLZ1jIBE
[First Segment – Introduction]
Chris Rosebrough, “I have got audio from a recent appearance by Andy Stanley on Joyce Meyer’s programme. Joyce Meyer the famous Word of Faith heretic and female pastrix and I am going to ask the question why was Andy Stanley on Joyce Meyer’s programme? And I am going to attempt to answer it by listening carefully to the first few minutes of his appearance. Because I think the answer to the question is obvious if you listen very carefully to the things that he said in the first few minutes of his appearance on Joyce Meyer’s programme.
Alright so I don’t have any Andy Stanley update music. But Andy Stanley recently appeared on Joyce Meyer’s television programme and Ken Silva of Apprising Ministries actually covered it. In fact he has got a blog post from October 2012 entitled Andy Stanley and Joyce Meyer – Enjoying Everyday Life Programme today and so the question I have is why an earth would somebody who is like you know a two star general in the seeker driven, purpose driven church movement appear on the television programme of a known female pastrix which by the way is there is no such thing biblically and a Word of Faith heretic like Joyce Meyer.
It just seems like an odd well if you would marriage and you see that is what they, he was there. Andy Stanley showed up and was interviewing Joyce Meyer and her husband on their marriage. Now so the question I have on the table. Why would Andy Stanley a two star general in the seeker driven, purpose driven movement appear on Joyce Meyer’s programme? I mean it don’t you think that is a form of endorsement. I do if Joyce Meyer were to ask me onto her programme. I would make it very clear. There is only one reason I would come on your programme Joyce and that is to rebuke you for your false doctrine and to call you to repentance and faith and trust in Christ for the forgiveness of your sins and that repentance would include you resigning all claims to being a pastrix, an ordained minister and for you to completely renounce your Word of Faith heresy. That is the only reason I would appear there so that I wouldn’t send the message to people that, “Hey you know Joyce Meyer and I we are you know, we are okay with each other’s theology. I am okay with her and she is okay with me.”
Now so again so the question is why would Andy Stanley appear on Joyce Meyer’s programme? Now I personally have a theory okay that this is connected to with what Andy Stanley did earlier this year. Remember earlier this year Andy Stanley preached a sermon series and during one of the sermons he talked about the fact that well he had to ask a gay couple to not volunteer at his church because well one of the guys in the gay couple was still married at the time they were volunteering at the church which led to the question which was brought up by Albert Mohler of all people as to whether or not Andy Stanley would have permitted them to continue volunteering and helping out at their church as a gay couple had that divorce thing been you know nailed down and resolved and so the question is what exactly does Andy Stanley believe, teach and confess regarding homosexuality? Is it a sin or not because the sin that he saw that needed to be addressed in that sermon was whether or not one of the dudes in the gay relationship was still married.
You see you get one of my points. So I think this is a continuation of that and it is important to note Andy Stanley has yet to publically clear up and clarify what his position is regarding homosexuality. So with that in mind I want you to listen carefully to Andy Stanley appearing on Joyce Meyer’s programme and interviewing Joyce Meyer and her husband. It will only take a couple of minutes and you will hear the important sentence that I think is the one to be listening for and answers the question why would Andy Stanley appear on Joyce Meyer’s programme? So here we go and Joyce Meyer is about introduce Andy Stanley and then he is going to turn right around and interview the happy couple. Here we go.”
Joyce Meyer, “Well hello and welcome to the programme. Today we are continuing our discussion on marriage with my husband Dave and Andy Stanley Senior Pastor of Northpoint Community Church in Georgia. Later in the show Dave and I will be answering some questions from our studio audience. Dave, Pastor Andy thanks for being with me again today.”
Dave Meyer, “You are welcome.”
Joyce Meyer, “I think we are going to have a great show.”
Andy Stanley, “It is going to be great.”
Joyce Meyer, “Alright.”
Dave Meyer, “I agree.”
Andy Stanley, “Well about nine years into this interesting marriage there is some breakthrough moments and while you are on your way to work the way I read the story and you hadn’t gone with the Holy Spirit. You have shared that story before. Share it now within this context.”
Joyce Meyer, “Well basically I mean I did love God and I wanted to do what was right. I really did. But I just couldn’t seem to be able to do it and I was crying out to God, God something is wrong. Something is missing. You know I am so tired of the way I am living and all I am going to say is that Andy God just touched me that he filled me full of hope. I knew by faith that God was going to do something in my life. I didn’t know what yet and I went on to work that day and I called Dave and I told him that you know I felt like God had spoken to me and he was going to do something in my life and I wasn’t accustomed to what I thought was hearing the voice of God and I say that carefully because I am not giving anybody the indication they are going to hear voices all the time. But God does speak to us. He leads us, He guides us. There is that inner witness. God speaks to our hearts and that day when I was coming home from work, I was sitting. I still remember where I was at in this town and in my car. Just thanking God for whatever he was going to do. I don’t know what you are going to do God but I am so excited. I know you are going to do something and so I was really applying a biblical principle I didn’t even know giving praise to God ahead of time and suddenly His love and presence just filled my automobile and filled my heart and I just I have never really been the same ever since. Now in some ways I hesitate to share that.”
Andy Stanley, “I understand.”
Joyce Meyer, “To a broad audience like TV because I don’t want anybody to think that they have to have that kind of an encounter to get well, to have a relationship with God you know. We encounter God in different ways and all I can say is God will meet you where you are at and He will do for you exactly what you need. All I know is that God touched me and I have never been the same since and the sensing that I had was love. I think that God just let me kind of visit with His overwhelming love and from that moment on.”
Andy Stanley, “That is powerful.”
Joyce Meyer, “From that moment on I had a deep desire to study the Word. That is very important for our viewers to hear because……”
Chris Rosebrough, “And you come out of this experience in the Word of Faith heresy. Important to note that historically we continue.”
Joyce Meyer, “Had I not started really studying the Word versus just going to church and hearing somebody else preach it. I would have never gotten the truth for me that eventually set me free.”
Andy Stanley, “How long before you noticed a change?”
Chris Rosebrough, “So notice Stanley is not challenging any of this. He should be, because she is a Word of Faith heretic.”
Andy Stanley, “How long before you noticed a change?”
Dave Meyer, “Well I think I saw a change, actually immediately there started, I started to see things happen you know immediately which you do once you have that relationship with the Holy Spirit. I want to just back up once. That is what happened to me prior when the Holy Spirit was preparing me for what I didn’t know what was ahead. But I knew there was something missing in my life. That had to more than what I had. Even though I was a Christian and I said, “God there has to be more than this,” and so I went to a place.
Chris Rosebrough, “So Andy Stanley for the most part is like affirming the entire narrative that launches Joyce Meyer into her career. We continue though listen carefully to what Andy Stanley says because I think it will answer the question why is Andy Stanley on Joyce Meyer’s programme?”
Dave Meyer, “And I wasn’t going to move until
Andy Stanley, “You got it.”
Dave Meyer, “Until I received this. You know and I did receive it and that is my life totally changed.”
Joyce Meyer, “Just needed that touch from God.”
Dave Meyer, “Dramatically changed after that.”
Andy Stanley, “Now before we get off this, one other question. From an outsider looking in, especially those of us who watch and read on our meeting day for the first time in some cases. Your marriage is a bit upside down in the sense that Joyce you are the stronger personality and yet you have taught on and believe obviously and the issue and idea of you know a woman being submissive to her husband. Husbands love your wife like Christ loved the church. How does that work out in these unique personalities God has given you and you have taught about this in the past. But….”
Joyce Meyer, “I think one of the things I would like to say is…..”
Chris Rosebrough, “Okay that is the setup question, watch what the follow up does.”
Joyce Meyer, “I don’t know that I am really the stronger personality, I think I am just louder about it.”
Andy Stanley, “Can we vote on that or is that a vote now? You go ahead sorry.”
Joyce Meyer, “No I mean here is the thing. Dave does not let me control him. So it is not an issue of me being overbearing. Yes I do have a more aggressive outgoing personality.”
Andy Stanley, “Okay.”
Joyce Meyer, “Dave is by nature more phlegmatic, more laid back. So if that is what we are saying is stronger that is fine. But he never would let me control him or manipulate him and even little things. People say oh are you Joyce Meyer’s husband? He would say, “No she is my wife.” He knew who he was and I mean Dave just, he is easygoing, pretty much to be honest he lets me do whatever I want to. But whenever he doesn’t like it or it is not right, he puts his foot down. I know he means business and that is it.”
Andy Stanley, “I have got to tell you when Dave walked onto the set. I saw in your eyes exactly what you just described and it was very powerful and your personal security and the way you have allowed God to shape that is such a huge part of this ministry and it really is a testimony that we can be who God made us to be. We don’t have to shrink back from that and that the roles in marriage perhaps as they are traditionally portrayed may not be an accurate snapshot of how God wants our giftedness to work its way out in marriage. Would you agree?”
Chris Rosebrough, “Okay that was it. That was what is going on here. I am going to back this up and I want you to hear Andy Stanley again. It is subtle. If you are not paying attention you are going to miss it. What he is doing here and the reason why this is my personal opinion by the way, my personal opinion as to why he is appearing here is because Andy Stanley really for a while now has been actively working to redefine Evangelicalism and him interviewing Joyce Meyer is part of that agenda. Okay now he is working to redefine Evangelicalism to the point of basically giving obfuscation engaging in obfuscation regarding homosexuality.
Now he is engaging in a similar obfuscation and what he says it is critical that you take his words for what they are. He is basically saying listen the way we have traditionally understood roles in marriage for what is written in The Bible. That is not what is playing out in our experiences so we need to rethink marriage. The whole point of his appearance is specifically on purpose to basically say, “I am engaging in a redefining of Christianity.” Rather than rebuking Joyce Meyer I am going to embrace her as a sister. I am going to go and sit down and talk with her about her marriage and in there I am going to put in a very subtle message that we need to redefine roles in marriage not based upon a traditional understanding of what the scriptures say, but really more in line with how that plays out in our experiences. Listen again.”
Andy Stanley, “Your personal security and the way you have allowed God to shape that is such a huge part of this ministry and it really is a testimony that we can be who God made us to be. We don’t have to shrink back from that and that the roles in marriage perhaps as they are traditionally portrayed may not be an accurate snapshot of how God wants our giftedness to work its way out in marriage. Would you agree here?”
Chris Rosebrough, “There you go I think that is the reason why he appeared on Joyce Meyer’s programme, very subtle. But Andy Stanley and guys like him who are high up in the seeker driven movement are actively involved in redefining Christianity, redefining Evangelicalism, changing everything. “You know we have got to get rid of this idea that there is heretics and heresies and that we can’t have female pastors and we have got to stop beating on homosexuals and telling them that they are sinners who need to repent and be forgiven.” And so he is this is a subtle attempt on his part and actually it is not so subtle. That was the key phrase, “ways we have traditionally understood.” Well where did we get those ideas? God’s Word. So now all of a sudden our experiences trump what God has revealed in His Word and that is why he was appearing on Joyce Meyer’s programme. I think it is just that simple.”