Wretched Radio With Todd Friel – Pre-Elephant Room 2 – Waiting for public repentance from TD Jakes
[Please note this show was broadcast before the Elephant Room 2 conference]
[Transcript of Radio Show podcast]
Waiting for public repentance from TD Jakes
Thursday November 17th 2011
[I would also recommend reading these article by Dan Philips http://teampyro.blogspot.co.uk/2011/11/t-d-jakes-and-like-part-two-thinking.html
[You can also watch this video on youtube – http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBpnngnpzR4]
Todd Friel, “Punchy certainly, important absolutely. This is Wretched Radio. The Elephant Room saga continues. This is like Roots. This is like The Wreck of the Edmund Fitzgerald by Gordon Lightfoot. It just goes on. It is like Hey Jude by The Beatles, like Suspicious Minds by Elvis. It just goes on.”
Tony Verkinnes, “We get it is long.”
Todd Friel, “Well at least in the early years. Well he had about forty, fifty pounds. Suspicious Minds got a lot shorter because you know doing that arm swinging thing it was getting a little bit…”
Tony Verkinnes, “Exercising?”
Todd Friel, “Getting a little bit windy there dear. Yeah [chuckles] instead of six minutes ah man let’s make it about a minute and twenty. Let’s make it like I am almost shook up. Big horn blast at the end. This is just a never ending saga. But it is an important one that we really have to keep following because there is a, there isn’t just a little kafuffle going on right now. Kafuffle’s are important. But this is monster big. You have one of the most loved leaders in Evangelicalism James MacDonald leading an effort that at the very best is ambivalent, to bring together Christian leaders to discuss Christian issues for Christians. The problem of course as you know he invited TD Jakes who is a Modalist. Now he recently posted this and he gave a little video stating that TD Jakes is a brother. But then he had to write an article defining what brother means,
James MacDonald, “We are going to be getting some brothers together. We are going to be talking about the issues that separate us. Men that believe the Word of God.”
Todd Friel, “Okay so to me that would be a Christian brother. I know he tried to write an article saying that you know there is like, “hey brother,” that type and then there is, “yo brother,” and then there is, “you know my brother who isn’t a believer that I grew up with and so hey don’t shoot at me for calling everybody a brother because the word brother has a semantic range that maybe would be allow me to wiggle out of this.” Well okay.
Well now I am very grateful because Dan Philips at Team Pyro’s blog spot has written about this issue from a whole new perspective that I think will demonstrate why this Elephant Room conference coming up in January is requiring somebody who is sharp and on the ball. Somebody who is willing to ask questions that does not allow an individual to slip out from underneath them and so it is I would to share with you some rather big chunks from Dan Philips article about TD Jakes parts 1 and 2. Asking the question Isn’t an unclear leader an oxymoron? TD Jakes is a leader and he is unclear about Trinitarian theology, huh? Yeah I think this also actually right now at the moment could apply to James MacDonald. James you are a leader. James you are a making a mess out there. You are at the very least in the centre of contention. I don’t think that is right. I don’t think that should be your goal. If you are after something here then state it. But right now your handling of this is just a hash and my concern truly is it is going to cause confusion among weaker newer brothers and sisters in the faith. It will ultimately, it already has watered down theology and I find it shocking that James MacDonald would want that. I have listened to him for years. I can’t believe that he would want that and finally regarding Trinitarian theology. We could see a major shift in what is acceptable Trinitarian belief and what is not.
Now Dan Philips rightly brings out and this gets, some of this you are going to go, “yeah, yeah, yeah I have got this stuff already.” But it leads us into asking some very good, important, thoughtful wise smartly considered questions of TD Jakes. If you follow the TD Jakes saga at all, he has been an out Modalist for a long time. Many people have approached him on this issue James White (Alpha and Omega Ministries), Hank Hanegraaff has gone after him on this, not only he is TD Jakes has had to respond to them in Christianity Today and did so much chin boogie quite honestly we all got dizzy from reading it. He did not deny his Modalism. He kind of went, “wah,” and everybody went, “huh?” and nobody knows. He didn’t deny his anything. He just kind of went “dit dit diddle dit dit dit.” So now James MacDonald is saying, “he is actually a Trinitarian.” That is right if you go to James MacDonald’s blog, he is now saying, “clearly I believe Bishop Jakes is Trinitarian and will affirm such at The Elephant Room 2 conference.” Now if you have been following this saga you know he did not state in the beginning that he was a Trinitarian. He has been basically stating, “we are going to find out once we get to The Elephant Room 2. We will use that as the forum to explore the beliefs,” in fact here in this clip right here,
James MacDonald, “We are going to be getting some brothers together, we are going to be talking about the issues that separate us. Men that believe the Word of God. Men that preach the gospel but do things a lot differently and believe differently or what do they exactly believe?”
Todd Friel, “Okay now James is posting and telling us he knows that TD Jakes is a Trinitarian, that is say what is going on here? What are you talking about Willis? This is…what the heck? Woah we didn’t know where, we think that maybe and now he is actually a Trinitarian. Contrary to all of the evidence you just need to google, “TD Jakes Modalism” and you will find post after post, phone call after phone call, meeting after meeting, exchange after exchange and now all of a sudden it seems that James MacDonald is the only man in Christendom who knows now that TD Jakes is a Trinitarian. Ponder that for a moment. The difference between Modalism and Trinitarianism is heaven and hell and so here comes the smack down from Dan Philips.
James MacDonald apparently thinks that the hundreds (thousands? tens of thousands?) of TD Jakes’ supporters who know no such thing about his Trinitarian transformation safely and responsibly will be left in the dark and conceivably die safely without that knowledge worshipping what MacDonald himself has agreed is a false god of course until James MacDonald’s paid event brings enlightenment to those who can afford it. Ewe that is a smack down.
If the world except for James MacDonald is unaware of TD Jakes real position on a doctrine essential and foundational as the Trinity then in what sense is Jakes any kind of a leader let alone a Christian leader? That is an outstanding question and what is going on here? If there are people following TD Jakes and James MacDonald who apparently does seem to be the only one who knows that TD Jakes is no longer a Modalist, what about TD Jakes followers? Why isn’t this public knowledge? Those people will die and go to hell with a wrong knowledge of Jesus if they are formal heretics. This is not a game.
What is a pastor’s chief job? To labour in the Word and to preach doctrine, that is it. (1 Timothy 5; 2 Timothy 4). Is the nature of God important? According to this…oh Dan. One of James MacDonald’s mouths says that the doctrine of Trinity is clearly a major issue and I agree with that mouth.
So to say it again if it is true stretching charity well beyond the snapping point that Jakes has repented of his Modalism and now embraces a robust biblical doctrine of the Trinity and yet nobody of the thousands who have heard and read him with the sole exception of James MacDonald knows that fact aren’t the very nicest conclusions we can draw about Jakes these two that
1) he is an extremely poor communicator
2) an extremely poor judge of what is important
I am sorry we have got to throw James MacDonald into that question pile. What is he waiting for? This is like alert, alert, alert everybody else you need to know this. Do you know how many people watch TD Jakes and follow his teachings? Hundreds of thousands, dare I say millions of people and we are waiting until The Elephant Room 2 and if either of those things is true about TD Jakes then please someone tell me how is Jakes any kind of leader let alone a Christian leader? Can you imagine? Oh I have got to include it in the article. Can you imagine Friel saying, “we are going to have Phil Johnson on and get to the heart of what he really believes about the sovereignty of God and salvation.” You would go, “what?”
Tony Verkinnes, “Hey?”
Todd Friel, “Of course we know what Phil because…that is because Phil is clear on it, because he is a good leader. Can you imagine Pirate Radio? Friday on the show Dan Philips reveals whether or not he thinks it matters to root the gospel in the entire Bible. He wrote a book on that. You go well he has been crystal clear on that. Coming up at The Elephant Room we will discover if TD Jakes is actually orthodox? Dun, dun, dun, what kind of a leader does that make TD Jakes and I am sorry I like James MacDonald, what kind of a leader does that make him? He is leaving this issue to dangle? There is not a life to spare, not a day to waste on this issue. Some how pay money to find out whether or not renowned Christian leader TD Jakes believes in the Trinity makes sense to say nothing else on any level is absolutely bonkers. It doesn’t make any sense at all.
Now that was part 1 of Dan Philips presentation on this. He then went onto part 2 – thinking clearly about the issue of repentance. http://teampyro.blogspot.co.uk/2011/11/t-d-jakes-and-like-part-two-thinking.html”
This is smart and this is good thinking so let’s fast forward. It is the The Elephant Room conference. Now let’s say that James MacDonald the sole individual who knows that TD Jakes is no longer a heretic, he is a Trinitarian.
1) So that means TD Jakes has an admitted past in the Modalist movement which is heretical,
2) James MacDonald is now saying he is a Trinitarian.
3) Now the Bible reveals that God is triune,
4) Modalism is a heresy,
5) Heresy is a sin.
6) If Jakes is a Modalist and is now a Trinitarian, then he has repented. What is biblical repentance it is a change of mind, it is a change of will, it is a change of direction and along the way 2 Corinthians 7 etc, you want to make right what you have been doing wrong.
Teaching millions of people about the wrong god is kind of a biggie. If you have truly repented you are going to go about the business of making that right.
So here are some questions then for TD Jakes. Do you think these will be asked? You are now a Trinitarian.
1) When was it that you repented of the sin of Modalism?
2) What led you to repent of the sin of Modalism TD?
3) What are the public confessions of that repentance of your sin?
4) And if you now see Modalism as a sin and that you are recognizing that you have been identified with a heresy and that is a sin.
How come nobody knew about your change of heart except James MacDonald? How come you only told him? How can you explain waiting months, perhaps years to make this revelation and then only on a paid venue. What do you think of the people who believed your teaching accepted Modalism because of it and died holding to that false god? And then why did you wait publicly to unveil your change of heart? Do you think that question is going to be asked? It should.
5) What restitution have you made sir? And what have you done to correct all the people who either were indoctrinated in or made indifferent to the heresy of Modalism through your teaching?
So now let’s just say it has been. I would say it was I think James posted that Jakes is now a Trinitarian on November 12th. So let’s say it has been what four or five days. Okay so let’s just say it happened on the eleventh. So he has only been a Trinitarian for six days. Possible I guess. Will we see anything between now and January, the third, fourth week in January where TD Jakes on his TV programme in his church. Has he sent out an email informing people, “I have a major announcement to make you need to read this immediately your soul depends on it.” So let’s see if TD Jakes does anything to correct it. Why isn’t James MacDonald forcing him to make this public?
6) What discipline did TD Jakes accept and what did he do when he realised that he had been teaching (or tolerating) a heresy with his very public profile for so many years?
7) Jakes previously specifically refused to disassociate himself from advocates and purveyors of the Modalist heresy. Have you disassociated yourself sir? Have you informed them that you are a Trinitarian? Have you instructed them that they are in a heresy according to the church now for 2,000 years and that they are going to perish and go to hell because of their wrong theology? Where did you say or do that? Name some individuals and groups so that people can one with them if they did not repent.
Will those questions be asked? Shouldn’t they be asked? Shouldn’t somebody be asking those questions? And shouldn’t he be willing to answer them? And the answer to all those questions is absolutely. I know we live in an age where the only truth is that there is no truth. But not in the church, not when it comes to the Bible. This is no small issue here. Eternity at stake and the future of The Evangelical Christian church at least in America if not in the world is headed potentially down a brand new path of understanding the Trinity different or accepting what has already been condemned by every single branch in Christendom, Catholic church, Orthodox church, Protestant church – all of them agree Modalism – heresy. Got to have the Trinity right. Well now apparently TD Jakes has it right, but we are just keeping it a little secret. Regardless of the wake of destruction that it has caused because we are doing it at our event to TD Jakes and to James MacDonald. Gentlemen what are you doing? Gentlemen souls are at stake. Truth is at stake. Do not wait. If TD Jakes is a Trinitarian you need to start talking loud now. This is Wretched Radio.
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