Fighting for the Faith Sermon Review God is Doing a new Thing? By Rachel Mawston Norwich Family Life Church

Chris Rosebrough, “In number two we are going to be heading across the pond and listening to a sermon entitled God is Doing a new Thing from Norwich. I am probably pronouncing this wrong. But I have a difficult time with some of the pronunciations for standard British terms. So today we will just say it is Norwich. Although I know that is wrong. I know it is I could just I could just tell I am going to be getting an email from pastor Charmley.

‘No this is how you pronounce it.’ And again the name of the sermon is God is Doing a new Thing and the reason I picked this out, actually somebody requested that I take a listen to it. But one of the things I am doing is that you might have heard of variations of this teaching before. You know when people try to justify some of the unjustifiable things that are happening in the church today they will point to a passage in you know Philippians or other places and say, ‘Look God is doing a new thing.’ And you go okay, ‘Oh okay so yeah the Bible says God is doing a new thing and so that new thing is whatever it is that they are pointing to.

You know you ask somebody in the ELCA – you know why are you blessing same sex marriages and ordaining unrepentant homosexuals and they will say, ‘Well we are in tune with the new thing that the Spirit is doing. That is kind of how that goes.’

[Segment Two – 01:17:16 – 02:34:43]

Alright we are back hour number two of Fighting for the Faith and I did consult some higher authorities to figure how to pronounce the name of this place. So I don’t make a complete fool of myself. I will just mostly have fooled myself. Alright here we go. The good, the bad, the ugly we review it all here at Fighting for the Faith. We are an equal opportunities sermon reviewing service. Today’s sermon comes to us via Norwich Family Life Church – Norwich, Norfolk, Great Britain. The name of the sermon is God is Doing a new Thing and it is presented by a gal by the name of Rachel Mawston.

Now you have probably heard similar type messages that kind of justify just about any kind of crazy things in the church. God is doing a new thing. See that means any new bizarre crazy weird, maybe even sinful thing. All you have to say is ‘Hey God is doing a new thing and that is supposed to like just end the argument. You get what I am saying so…so let me go ahead and kill the music and without any further or due here is Rachel Mawston and her sermon is God is Doing a new Thing. Here we go….

Rachel Mawston, “I am going to minister today on the subject of God doing a new thing and at the start of the year I got so excited because I felt in my spirit and as I am sure many of you have as well. The Lord is doing something new and I felt this resonate in my spirit….

Chris Rosebrough, “You felt this resonating in your spirit. What does that feel like you know? You are walking down the street and all of a sudden woah I feel like God is doing a new thing. Yeah what is that?”

Rachel Mawston, “God is doing a new thing in my heart, in our family, in our church and we are part of Hillsong Brisbane. We moved from Sydney four years ago now to a church that was already established that has been going for forty years and we were sent there to help bring the church to help with the growth, and bring the strength and it trebled or doubled in size and then trebled in size once it became Hillsong Church and we have seen the altars filled every week with people coming to know Jesus.

When I was a little girl I always used to pray that scripture ask of me and I will give you the nations for your inheritance and He sent me to Brisbane and it is honestly one of the most multicultural cities that you could come across. We have the Africans and the Indians and the South Africans and the Europeans and so many Asians and I love it because I feel like the Lord has sent me there. But he has brought the nations to us. So I get to do life with and pastor many different nationalities and I can see that….

Chris Rosebrough, “That is weird because God doesn’t call women pastors.”

Rachel Mawston, “I can see there is quite a few different nationalities here as well. But we had a baby dedication a couple of weeks ago and the platform was full. It was like spot the Aussie, you couldn’t see the full packed with families from around the world that are united serving God together and so that thing of God doing something new is not something that is cultural or something that is to do with our background. But it is something God is doing today at this time in history. He is doing a new thing ….”

Chris Rosebrough, “Yeah this is off to a bad start here. Really bad what kind of theology would ever convince this woman that she is called to be a pastor? Because The Bible forbids that. Oh yeah she is from Hillsong. Got it okay….”

Rachel Mawston, “But it is something God is doing today at this time in history. He is doing a new thing – because He is speeding up the process, because He is coming back soon….”

Chris Rosebrough, “He is doing a new thing because He is speeding up the process. Because He is coming soon – where did you get this from?”

Rachel Mawston, “We are seeing people saved. We are seeing people healed. We had somebody’s marriage restored that had been separated for 9 years and their marriage was restored just a couple of weeks before we left and somebody else that had been praying for weeks and weeks actually years and years….”

Chris Rosebrough, “By the way if Jesus is coming soon then we need to pay close attention to what our Bible’s say because The Bible makes it very clear that in the days immediately proceeding Christ’s return it would be marked with apostasy. False teachers, false doctrine, false prophets, false signs and miracles. Uh huh yeah so I mean yeah that is what Jesus said and you think that you are a pastor. But Gods word forbids you from being a pastor and you think God is doing a new thing and you know you are saying these are the days right before Christ returns. Maybe it is – but you see because Jesus warned us about the well the dangers of the deceit of the last days. You know marked with false Christ’s, false prophets, false teachers, false signs, false wonders and the great apostasy.

I mean yeah it already I am kind of going hmm yeah well maybe this is a sign of the end times because of your rebellion against Gods word. Let’s see how you handle Gods word though….”

Rachel Mawston, “We are seeing people saved. We are seeing people healed. We had somebody’s marriage restored that had been separated for 9 years and their marriage was restored just a couple of weeks before we left and somebody else that had been praying for weeks and weeks actually years and years for a baby and lots of miscarriages.

She finally had a miracle baby and we dedicated the baby before we left and there has been so many stories of a new thing that God is doing and it starts with us.”

Chris Rosebrough, “So many stories of a new thing. Uh huh preaching from own experiences apparently.”

Rachel Mawston, “Revival starts with each one of us and as I look back over my life. I see many times where the LORD did something new in my heart and one time was just three or four months after I had Mercy and I was feeling very tired. There are times when you feel tired and worn and Sharon and Christine and I went away to a conference in Bradford and Donna Crouch from Hillsong Church was preaching there and at the time I was feeling like I was going to give up on ministry.

I felt like it was too much to do babies and I just got a bit postnatal or something or other and was feeling low. Anyone ever feel low in their spirit or am I the only one and we sat in that worship and I remember there were tears streaming down my face and I was just giving it all to the Lord.

But I had kind of come to the end. The ministry is not for me and I spoke to Donna at the end and she said, ‘Rachel…’ and I had told her I was tired and what I was doing and she goes, ‘Rachel you have got gold in you. There is nations to minister to – you just do it tired – even when you do it tired you just step out and do it tired….’ She believed in me. She spoke life into me and I went away from that conference not only continuing in ministry.

But we started wow, we started a women’s ministry. So I am so glad to hear that you are still taking a coach load of women to London and gathering the women together. Because we encourage each and that was a time, through that time I learned not to depend on my own strength and I learned the key of renewed strength. The Bible says that He renews our strength….”

Chris Rosebrough, “Yeah He does. You see the job of a real pastor which a woman can’t be is to actually preach the word. Uh huh and just you know talking about your own life experiences and then throwing in a Bible verse here. Something you experienced and then a Bible verse out of context there. Does not make a biblical sermon….”

Rachel Mawston, “The Bible says that He renews our strength like the eagles and we rise and we walk and we run and then we are not weary and another time in Australia when at that time then I wasn’t tired. But I was just frustrated. I had been there for a year and Steve was on staff and I was volunteering and I was working as a physio and I was looking after the girls and I was doing.

Has anybody ever got to that stage where you do, do, do, and you are doing everything that is needed. But you are thinking in your heart there has got to be something new and I am doing, doing, doing but Lord what else have you got for me? You know sometimes we can feel a bit selfish even thinking that and I was sitting in bed one night. Steve was out and I was reading actually a John Maxwell book and he was challenging me to write my dreams and back then this was about seven or eight years ago….”

Chris Rosebrough, “Yeah I am sure he was unfortunately John Maxwell is not known for his sound biblical doctrine….”

Rachel Mawston, “And I thought it was a very selfish thing to do. However I was challenged to start to write down what I felt the Lord had called me to do and put on my heart, and those big dreams. Started to write them down and then I looked at it and thought who do you think you are? And put it aside. Melody had been off sick and we watched a movie together called The Slipper and the Rose.

It is an old fashioned English musical. I love the old fashioned English movies and we went to church that night and the preacher was preaching and the sermon title he used was Bringing Our God Specialises in the Fairytale Stories – Bringing Dreams to Life and throughout God’s word….”

Chris Rosebrough, “God specialises in the fairytale stories. Really and bringing dreams to life. So you are just like a Disney Princess and Jesus is going to make your dreams come true so that you can live happily ever after right….”

Rachel Mawston, “He was talking about how Daniel and Esther and Mark and Moses and Joseph and how they all had come from obscurity to doing the same old and God had plucked them out and done something new in them….”

Chris Rosebrough, “Yeah see it is all about God plucking you out of obscurity so that He can do something new in you. Notice the narcissistic emphasis here on what to do with these biblical stories….”

Rachel Mawston, “He was talking about how Daniel and Esther and Mark and Moses and Joseph and how they all had come from obscurity to doing the same old and God had plucked them out and done something new in them which has impacted….”

Chris Rosebrough, “Yeah Jesus makes it clear that the scriptures are about Him. I remember Him saying to the Pharisees.

John 5 v 39
39 You diligently search the scriptures because you think that in them you have life; yet they are the very scriptures that testify of Me and you refuse to come to Me that you might have life….”

Rachel Mawston, “He was talking about how Daniel and Esther and Mark and Moses and Joseph and how they all had come from obscurity to doing the same old and God had plucked them out and done something new in them which has impacted whole generations and he actually showed a clip of The Slipper and The Rose movie. Now nobody in Australia had seen it. I don’t think because he asked who had seen the movie and we put our hands up. But I felt like that was just for me.

You know it is one of those things again when the Lord did something new in me and I knew that at that time in Bradford, at that time in Sydney what the Lord did that time is He renewed my mind and my mind was thinking I have got to do this. I am busy, busy, busy….”

Chris Rosebrough, “Don’t you think if the Lord had renewed your mind you would be preaching Jesus. Oh wait you are not supposed to be preaching. Don’t you think you wouldn’t be preaching….”

Rachel Mawston, “He renewed my mind to thinking, ‘What has He got for me? And what are the dreams that He has put within my heart and the calling, because He has called each and every one of us.’ But how many know you can go through same old, same old and we need to stir up those dreams and the calling on our lives and recognize that when we are fully doing what He has called us to do. That is when we are the most alive. That is when we are loving life to the full….”

Chris Rosebrough, “Yeah that sounds really, that sounds like the kind of thing I would see in like a you know, one of those greeting cards and this really nice slogan thing, kind of a hallmark moment here. But what biblical passages actually say any of this nonsense?”

Rachel Mawston, “….That is when we are the most contagious. That is when we were the most magnetic. That is when we draw people to ourselves and that is when our…”

Chris Rosebrough, “Yeah when you draw people to yourselves? You see that is what false teachers do. Scripture says it is the false teachers who draw away people after themselves. Uh so you have just admitted you are a false teacher. Nice.

Rachel Mawston, “….that is when our walls here will be bursting at the seams. When there is men and women and young people and children that have got a hold of the new thing and reviving again inside and we are really in a sense in a season of revival at the moment and we are declaring it over our church services every week…”

Chris Rosebrough, “You are declaring a season of revival. Uh hmm yeah they were declaring a revival up in Northern Ireland too. Let me get to that tomorrow….”

Rachel Mawston, “That this is revival and if you look across the history of revivals, they were always marked by prayer, they were marked by a fresh desire to study Gods word….”

Chris Rosebrough, “Yeah repentance of sin, false doctrine that seems to be missing from this particular revival….”

Rachel Mawston, “….If you look across the history of revivals, they were always marked by prayer, they were marked by a fresh desire to study Gods word and a revelation of his word. They were marked by salvations. Many people coming to know Jesus.

They were marked by supernatural healings, supernatural financial miracles and provision for the people of God and for things to happen and they were also marked by a renewal of the Spirit of God and people just seeing the presence of God out working through their lives and men and women getting up and wanting to be involved and I believe that this morning there are many of us that need to step to something new in God and whether it is praying different, worshipping differently, stepping out and ministering to somebody….”

Chris Rosebrough, “Yeah I think the people there need to do a lot of things different. Number one not listen to female pastors. Number two repent of their false doctrine of the Holy Spirit. Number three repent of their false doctrine period and be forgiven by the shed blood of Christ and then preach Jesus and Him crucified.”

Rachel Mawston, “Reaching out in your workplace. Whether it is doing something new ministry wise. Serving in church and the Lord wants to do something new there. Maybe it is just as simple as a new hairstyle….”

Chris Rosebrough, “God is doing a new thing by telling you to get a new hairstyle. Yeah maybe I am supposed to go and get a Bieber cut…”

Rachel Mawston, “You know how many times do we go through the same old, I have had the same hairstyle for quite a lot of years and my hairdresser often says why don’t you put a red colour in or something. I am not quite that daring. But we go on the same holidays. We tend to hang with the same friends. You know some of us go to the same shops and get our clothes and we can become creatures of habit. But I know that God….”

Chris Rosebrough, “Apparently that is a bad thing. But God is doing a new thing so you need to stop being a creature of habit. You need to go on holiday somewhere else….”

Rachel Mawston, “But I know that God throughout His word regularly talks about the new thing that He is doing and I believe this morning…”
Chris Rosebrough, “And what would that be?”

Rachel Mawston, “But I know that God throughout His word regularly talks about the new thing that He is doing and I believe this morning that even though some of you might be saying, ‘Yeah Rachel it is all well and good for you. You don’t know my situation. I have been praying for God to do something new in my marriage for a long time. I have been praying for God to heal me for a long time.

Oh I have been praying for something new to happen in my family situation or whatever it might be and I have been desiring for those dreams. There maybe some of you that feel like that. I want to read this to you. Listen to God’s word…

In Isaiah 43 v 18 in The Amplified Version of The Bible….”

Chris Rosebrough, “Oh this can’t be good. Amplified there is a problem with The Amplified. Here is the problem. It is called illegitimate totality transfer. Okay you are thinking what is that? I talk about it quite regularly here at Fighting for the Faith and the idea is this is that many words in the dictionary have many different definitions. But each time a word appears in a sentence in a paragraph or a particular work it only has one of those meanings.

It doesn’t have all of them. That is no way you can’t communicate if you pour every meaning of a word into every instance that it occurs. Okay so you know if I were to say somebody threw up. There is the word up or I said somebody went up to Jerusalem. Notice I use the word up two different ways. I can say somebody woke up right or they went up town. Now each of those sentences I have used the word up. But they mean different things each time they appear. You can’t take all of the meanings of the word up and then shove them into every time the word up is used. Because then you have no idea what it means.

That is what The Amplified does, it takes all of the different definitions and shoves them into every instance that a word appears irrespective of what that word actually means in the context in which it appears. So you want to avoid several different Bible quote translations like the plague. The Amplified is one of them. The Message is another. You get what I am saying. We continue….”

Rachel Mawston, “First of all the definition of renew is to restore to freshness vigour or profession. To begin again. Look at this with me in The Amplified.

Isaiah 43 v 18-19 (Amplified Bible)
18 Do not remember the former things; neither consider the things of old.
19 Behold, I am doing a new thing! Now it springs forth; do you not perceive and know it and will you not give heed to it?

Rachel Mawston, “See God can be doing something
new and we don’t even notice it….”

Chris Rosebrough, “Woah slow down there. The question is when it says in Isaiah 43 that God is doing a new thing. What is the new thing He is doing? Is it referring to God telling you that He wants you to go somewhere different on holiday. That He wants you to have a new hairstyle, is that what is being referred to here? No the answer is absolutely not. The new thing that God that Isaiah is referring to is the new covenant that is about to come about. The old covenant is going to pass away. The new covenant is going to come into being and Jesus Christ ratifies that covenant by His shed blood on the cross and He fulfils all the promises of the prophets with the exception of the prophecies regarding His return a second time.

So just quoting this passage and saying God is doing a new thing and ignoring the context and what it is the new thing that is referring to, the referent is not God is doing a new thing in your church once you get a new hairstyle. Once you go somewhere different on holiday. The new thing is referring to the new covenant…”

Rachel Mawston, “We have got to perceive and we have got to heed and we have got to listen and we have got to get on the same page and we have got to step out into the flow the stream of what He is doing.

Isaiah 43 v 19-21 (Amplified Bible)
19 I will even make a way in the wilderness and rivers in the desert.
20 The beasts of the field honor Me, the jackals and the ostriches, because I give waters in the wilderness and rivers in the desert, to give drink to My people, My chosen, 21 The people I formed for Myself, that they may set forth My praise [and they shall do it].

And it also says in another version. I think it is in The Message…

Isaiah 43 v 19 The Message (MSG)
“…a people custom made to praise me for myself…”

I believe that Norwich Family Life Centre are a people custom made for Himself. The worship this morning was an amazing sense of God’s presence….”

Chris Rosebrough, “Yeah I mean you read a verse out of context, passage out of context. Ignore what is going on. You think Isaiah was talking about Norwich Family Life Church in Isaiah 43….”

Rachel Mawston, “There is an atmosphere in the place, where there is an expectation of the Spirit of God doing something new and He is and our history of our church here has always been built on praise and worship and being set free in praise and I believe part of that new thing is to be set free again in praise. Set free in worship. To speak with new tongues.

If you have spoken the same language of the Spirit for a lot of years, believe for new tongues. The Bible talks about new tongues and start to believe for something new in your spirit inside you. Throughout Gods word He talks about the new song. In Psalm 96 – a new covenant in Hebrews 12. A new commandment in 1 John. New wine in Proverbs 3….”

Chris Rosebrough, “Yeah just going throughout all of The Bible and finding all of the occurrences of the word new doesn’t prove anything. What are they – what do those passages mean in the context in which they appear?”
Rachel Mawston, “New creation in 2 Corinthians…a new thing Isaiah 48, a new name Isaiah 62, a new spirit, a new heart in Ezekiel 36, new tongues in Mark 16. New life in Romans 6 and a new man or a new woman in Christ in Ephesians 4. So how do you think from Gods word God can do something new?

It is very powerful throughout the scripture that the new thing that He is going to do in us is something that is already declared, is already done and we have just got to step into it and believe….”

Chris Rosebrough, “What is she talking about?
She has no clue how to do hermeneutics at all…”

Rachel Mawston, “…and part of doing the new thing is allowing Him to restore what has been lost. So there is two parts to this message. Allow Him to restore what has been lost. Because the definition of renew is to restore what may have been lost…”

Chris Rosebrough, “So what is God going to restore that has been lost? Again this is not a biblical teaching…”

Rachel Mawston, “…To renew or restore to freshness. So partly what God wants to do today is to let go of what has been lost or to bring back restore to you what has been lost and then embrace what is new. I had a tooth that was capped and came loose. Has anybody ever experienced that? I didn’t and couldn’t afford the dentist and didn’t want to have the hassle of going and so….”

Chris Rosebrough, “We are going to hear about your
trip to the dentist. Loose cap okay….”

Rachel Mawston, “So I just got some glue stuff or a temporary thing and kept sticking it back in and you know sometimes you have to in order to embrace the new. I should have gone to the Dentist sooner and got a new one put in. But no I just kept sticking it in. I thought that will be alright. One Sunday morning I was in the side room having a bite to eat – before we went back into the service.

In between we have four services on a Sunday and it was in between one of the services and I took my tooth out so I wouldn’t swallow it when I ate. Put it on my lap and had my food and then stood up and forgot that it was on my lap and it rolled underneath the coffee table. At the time we had visiting speakers and actually no pastor Brian Houston was there that weekend and we sat in a small little room and someone noticed, ‘what is that rolling underneath the table?’ And so I had to get down underneath the table and retrieve it discreetly.

It gets worse. Then we went back out to the next service. I put it back in and you have the prayer requests earlier and Mary came up. Pastor Brian was up and he asked me to come up and pray for the prayer requests and I got up onto the platform and started to pray passionately and the tooth slid down and so I yanked it up with the microphone and kept praying and then a couple of minutes later. It wasn’t even a long prayer. It fell down again and so this time I just pulled it out with my hand – kept on praying and then walked off the platform absolutely mortified and said, ‘Stu did you see that?’

I had my eyes closed. Hopefully everyone had their eyes closed. But there they have three big massive screens and the video is on you the whole time. So the people at the back can see what is happening at the front. Nothing is missed on those big screens and I know people would have seen. So it pays to let go of what has gone in order to embrace what is new….”

Chris Rosebrough, “Don’t you feel like you are getting closer to Jesus after hearing about that tooth. I mean wow I can just feel it in my spirit. You know it is wah, yeah I mean I don’t feel nothing. What on earth is this?”

Rachel Mawston, “Get the new tooth. Get the new of what, it is good to have a laugh in church don’t you think? Especially when you are having it at my expense. So listen to Joel 2 v 25….”

Chris Rosebrough, “Joel 2 v 25 okay I am getting there first.
We continue here we go….”

Rachel Mawston, “The first part of this message actually the Hebrew word restore, actually the word restore is used one thousand and sixty times in God’s word. So I know that He is interested in restoring all things….”

Chris Rosebrough, “Oh man this a classic word of faith new apostolic reformation charismatic Bible twisting passage here we go….”

Rachel Mawston, “Especially when you are
having it at my expense. So listen to Joel 2 v 25….

Joel 2 v 25 (ESV)
25 I will restore to you the years
that the swarming locust has eaten…

Chris Rosebrough, “Who is the you in that sentence? Yeah you started Joel 2 v 25.

Joel 2 v 25 (ESV)
25 I will restore to you the years
that the swarming locust has eaten…

Who is the you? Is that me and you. I mean this is the same kind of Bible twist we get with Jeremiah 29 v 11.

Jeremiah 29 v 11
I know the plans I have for you.

Who is the you in Jeremiah 29 v 11? It ain’t you and I – that is a specific promise for the Babylonian captives. Okay yeah so who is the you here? So Joel 2, how far back do I want to go here? You know, you know what I should do. Let’s go back all the way to the beginning of Joel here and let me in fact. Let me pull up a commentary here real quick here and lets learn what we can about the purpose of the prophet Joel and this little book that we have here.

Okay so Joel, here we go. Dating the heading in Joel 1 v 1 gives no information about the prophet apart from his father’s name. Okay so we know that. The occasion we know from other post exilic books that this period was a very difficult time politically and economically for the Judean settlers. Haggai mentioned a bad harvest that devastated the community when they had insufficient resources to tie them over. It was an agricultural crisis that was the burden of Joel’s ministry.

One that threatened the survival of the struggling settlers – they experienced a severe locust plague that afflicted or affected more than one year’s harvest. Locusts are still a serious threat notably in African countries although the spring of pesticides especially from the air has decreased their harmfulness by killing them before they mature and breed.

Okay so this is a post exilic book at a particular time so this a word of comfort from God to the people of Israel post exile through the prophet Joel during a time when they had suffered some pretty severe things including a major locust plague that was mentioned in the book of Haggai. Uh that is who the YOU is there then. But I don’t think that Rachel here probably consulted any commentaries to make sure she wasn’t going to twist God’s word before she started running after her own interpretation. I can’t wait to hear what she is going to do with this.

Rachel Mawston, “Get the new tooth. Get the new of what, it is good to have a laugh in church don’t you think? Especially when you are having it at my expense. So listen to Joel 2 v 25. The first part of this message actually the Hebrew word restore, actually the word restore is used one thousand and sixty times in God’s word. So I know that He is interested in restoring all things

Joel 2 v 25 (NKJV)
25 “So I will restore to you the years

that the swarming locust has eaten,
The crawling locust,
The consuming locust,
And the chewing locust,
My great army which I sent among you.

In some versions of the Bible it says the hopping locust or the stripping locust.

Joel 2 v 25-27 (NKJV)
26 You shall eat in plenty and be satisfied,
And praise the name of the LORD your God,
Who has dealt wondrously with you;
And My people shall never be put to shame.
27 Then you shall know that I am in the midst of Israel:
I am the LORD your God
And there is no other.

He is all we need and He said it again and there is more….

Joel 2 v 27 (NKJV)
27 My people shall never be put to shame.

Locusts in middle eastern times are they are like a grass hopper and they hatch in their multiple thousands. They start to crawl around and eat the vegetation around the area where they have hatched and as they get bigger, they start to go even further and The Bible here talks about the crawling and the chewing locusts. They start to chew and they gnaw and they gnaw and they gnaw and they start to eat the vegetation and when that is all gone, they develop massive hind legs – big bigly eyes and they start to hop and they hop for more vegetation and they eat and they crawl and they hop and they chew and they gnaw at all the vegetation around bit by bit.

Then eventually they take off in massive swarms and cover a complete field of harvest and if the locusts take off in swarms it would be and still is absolute devastation for the farmer in the middle east. They would lose everything and it would be every bit of vegetation would just be nibbled down to nothing and there would be such a swarm that you wouldn’t be able to see through all the locusts.

It says there that God will restore the years. Some of you have taken so long to build something. Years to build and overnight….”

Chris Rosebrough, “Yeah what does it matter if I have taken years to build something. I wasn’t living at the time of the prophet Joel, post exile Israel and I haven’t lost anything to locusts. Yeah they just don’t make their way up here to Indiana very often….”

Rachel Mawston, “Something can be lost can’t it? Overnight health can be lost, a marriage situation, even with our church here. How ever many years ago and it burnt to the ground….”

Chris Rosebrough, “Yeah but Joel is not talking about a marriage situation that has been eaten by locusts. I mean that would be kind of awkward. It would be very difficult to probably cure that and your normal marriage counselling. You know what are you two here for? Well locusts have eaten our marriage. No really how did it happen? I mean in a situation like that you have to apply pesticides. Yeah I mean that is the only way to save a marriage eaten by locusts that I know of….”

Rachel Mawston, “There can be so many ways that we experience loss. Loss of a loved one, loss of a relationship with a child – with maybe a daughter or a son who walked away from God and the relationship with you was not what it once was – or maybe it is loss of a friendship that wasn’t that is not quite what it once was. Maybe it is loss of confidence because of what you have been through. Maybe it is just loss of a desire to dream again. You know that story I told about the dreams. Maybe it is a loss of trust in people because….”

Chris Rosebrough, “So have your dreams been eaten by locusts? Again pesticides that it will bring your dream you know. You see after apply the pesticides and get rid of the locusts that are eating your dreams. You know you might have to put your dream in a greenhouse or something like that in order to kind of revive it.”

Rachel Mawston, “Maybe it is a loss of trust in people because you have been let down and it can be gnawing like the locusts – just gnaw and we can all be at different stages of what we have lost and some of us it might just be that your marriage or a relationship or a friendship or one of those areas I have talked about. The locusts has just slowly gnawed. For some it might feel like there is complete devastation and it has completely gone….”

Chris Rosebrough, “See who knew God really is doing a new thing. He is allowing marriages to be destroyed by locusts and dreams to be destroyed by locusts….”

[God promises Israel material restoration by divinely healing the land of Israel (Joel 2 v 21-27). God promises to restore Israel spiritual restoration by sending his Holy Spirit – prophecy fulfilled in NT. God promises Israel national restoration by judging the unrighteous]

Rachel Mawston, “But there is hope. Listen to what God words says it says I….

Joel 2 v 26
26 You will eat in plenty and be satisfied…

When Jesus fed the four thousand and the five thousand when he did the amazing miracle at the end it said they ate to their full, in some versions they ate until they were satisfied and then there were leftovers.

Chris Rosebrough, “Yeah and the feeding of the five thousand I wasn’t there and you weren’t there and that is a historical miracle there and I am sure the baskets full were not eaten by locusts. It doesn’t say anything about that…”

Rachel Mawston, “I believe you are going to be satisfied. You are going to eat to your full – so to speak and there will be leftovers as….”

Chris Rosebrough, “Clearly this is true in the new heavens and new earth.
Yeah that is not promised for Christians now….”

Rachel Mawston, “I believe you are going to be satisfied. You are going to eat to your full – so to speak and there will be leftovers as a church as individuals as that which God is going to restore. You will be satisfied. It won’t just be that will do. It won’t be that will do. Don’t expect that will do kind of faith mentality. Expect exceedingly abundantly life without boundaries, life without limits whatever it was there. I love that promo video. Expect exceedingly abundantly above all that you can ask or think and know that God can do it and the second part of it is…

Joel 2 v 27
“…You will never be put to shame…”

Sometimes with loss, people can experience shame.
Sometimes with a loss of a marriage that didn’t work out or a child or a business. There can be a sense of shame. Where did I go wrong?”

Chris Rosebrough, “Yeah now we are talking about the affects and consequences of sin right. Are we going to talk about sin and the need to repent and be forgiven then?”

Rachel Mawston, “What did I do? Wasn’t God there? And we can hold our heads down. It says here twice.

Joel 2 v 27
27 My people will never be put to shame.

The Hebrew word for restore is shalam which is a bit like shalom which means peace, a greeting. Here it says to shalam is to restore to wholeness. To cause to live in peace. The LORD wants to restore wholeness, a sense of peace, a sense of contentment. The past has gone today is a new day. Believe it. He can do it exceedingly abundantly above all we can ask. I am going to ask Steve to jump up for a minute and to talk about the thing that God wants to do that is new but in restoring what was lost….”

Chris Rosebrough, “Alright now here comes her husband Steve.
Tag team preaching today here.”

Steve Mawston, “Didn’t she do well? She is not just a pretty face. But she is a very pretty face and has got prettier over the years I reckon.

Joel 2 v 25
25 “So I will restore the years that the locust has eaten,

I will restore. I love that. There is nothing uncertain about that. There is a certainty to it. God said I will restore. It is not a might, it is not a possibility….”

Chris Rosebrough, “Yeah again there is a reference issue there. Because when you read it in context and understand who Joel is prophesying to…yeah you are turning this into some big blanket statement that somehow God is going to restore things that have been eaten by metaphorical allegorical locusts in my life and that is not what this passage is saying….”

Steve Mawston “…There is a promise in it.
God makes promises to HIS people and he says…

Joel 2 v 27
‘I will restore the years that the locust has eaten…’

Some of you there is things that have been missing in your life for years. You have been longing for and praying for and God says I will restore. We had this great testimony in our church. There was a guy he is a builder and he lost, I don’t know you lose these things David Buck. But he lost a digger. Like a JCB. Now it was stolen apparently. That is a big thing to lose. It was this huge digger. It was worth $80,000 dollars which is £60,000 and the worse thing was that at the time his wife was pregnant and struggling and she was the one that was meant to insure it and she hadn’t insured it.

This is two friends of ours. Jed and Tony – how many know $80,000 dollars is a lot to lose and pastor Robert Ferguson came to our church and he told a story of an old lady in Hockley in Birmingham and how one time he was with this lady….”
Chris Rosebrough, “An old lady in Hockley huh? Yeah that story is probably not found in The Bible…”

Steve Mawston, “She lost something and she opened the window and she called out and she said, ‘Devil I make a citizen’s arrest over you and I command you to return what belongs to me…’ And that is what she did she made a citizens arrest and literally by end of the week she had back what she lost. So Robert Ferguson remembered this as a young guy and he preached this message in our church called How to Make a Citizens Arrest. He talked about this old lady in Hockley.

So Jed and Tony friends of ours, they often pick the kids up from school. They decided they were going to make a citizens arrest and so they got together in prayer and then they believed God for that digger to come back. It had been done for 18 months. Within 9 days they had a phone call. The phone call was from a guy that didn’t even like Jed. They were kind of enemies and this guy called him. He said, ‘I don’t know why I am even calling you. But I just think I have seen your digger in the local garage. So Jed drove up there and sure enough it was his digger. 9 days later and it was restored back to him.

Joel 2 v 27
‘I will restore the years that the locust has eaten…’

God is a rebuilder. He is a restorer. He is a redeemer. He wants to build your life. The enemy is a thief. He comes to steal….”

Chris Rosebrough, “Now this sounds like the gospel doesn’t it? See that is the issue is that we are dealing with an artificial false gospel. Yes God is a redeemer. God is a restorer. Where has He done this restoration, redemption work? Not in restoring dreams that have been eaten up by locusts. But by restoring you – redeeming you. Dying on the cross for your sins and mine. That is not what we are hearing here and now we have got the God of locusts restoration and you know God is not into that kind of insecticide stuff at least not for us. Because that is not what applies.

But God is into restoring. He restores us to right relationship with Him by unilaterally acting on our behalf. For in that while we were yet sinners Christ died for our sins. See the difference we are not hearing about that. Now we are just hearing some kind of temporal health and wealth kind of thing. Just stretch out in faith and believe this and make citizens arrests of Satan and oh yeah you are just going to be on easy street….”

Steve Mawston, “God is a rebuilder. He is a restorer. He is a redeemer. He wants to build your life. The enemy is a thief. He comes to steal, kill and destroy. But Jesus came to give you life and life in all of its fullness.

Joel 2 v 27
I will restore the years.

You have got to say it with a northern accent. Everyone say year. The years – whoever said that Colin. Thank you for that.

 

Joel 2 v 27

I will restore the years the locust has eaten.

We kind of last year. We had a great year in our families life of favour and blessing and restoration and I told the church about how when I was 18 years of age – I was talking to Peter who is 18 who was doing his a levels and I remembered when I was doing my a levels. Ferry Hill comprehensive school in the armpit of England – in the north east.

Alright and very few people ever went to University from our part of the world. There was nobody in the history who had ever went to university. I was the first one and I was doing my a levels. I was doing history, geography, and economics and I had an economics teacher by the name of Mr. Dobson and for some reason he took a bit of a shine to me and I don’t know why that was but he believed in me and he had connections to L.S.E The London School of Economics. It was a very prestigious school in London where if you do graduate you from the L.S.E you know you can go into stocks and shares and all kinds of investment and pretty much it sets you up for a good life at L.S.E – at that time it was very difficult to get into.

But he had connections and he was able to get me a scholarship and he was telling me. You know talking me through this for eighteen months and trying to cajole me and persuade me to go to L.S.E and it was around that time that the call of God was stirring in my life and I didn’t know at 17. But at 18 I knew in my heart that God had called me to go to Bible college and so I remember the day when I went to Mr. Dobson and I looked him in the eye and I said Mr. Dobson, “I am not going to L.S.E. I am actually going to go to L.B.C. London Bible College.

And in life we often have the choice is it going to be L.S.E or L.B.C – is it going to be the way of the world or the way of the word. That is the choice we all have to make in life…”

Chris Rosebrough, “It is weird because it sounds to me like you have combined the two and when you combine the world with the word you end up losing the word…”

Steve Mawston “…and I chose to go to Bible College and I will never forget his response. Mr. Dobson he said and he looked me in the eye and said, ‘You will regret this for the rest of your life and that was a really encouraging thing to say wasn’t it – aren’t teachers fantastic? The teacher told my dad when he graduated from Russia Ford High School.

He said to him, ‘Mawston you will bring untold misery on your family…’ That is what he said to my dad and he could not have been further from the truth. That is why it is important you don’t just accept the words that are spoken over your life. You accept the word that is spoken over your life and so you know Rachel and I have been involved I guess in ministry pretty much since I went to Bible College. I was then employed in my home church. I then worked for the YMCA here.

I then went off to Australia. So I have been involved in if you like full time Christian ministry for over 20 years now and in that time when I turned 40. Now you are looking shocked that I am 40. But I am. I am now 43 and when I turned 40 I kind of went through this inner journey where I am looking at my life and thinking, “You know I have got the next 40 years of my life ahead of me. What do I need to change? What have I done well? What have I not done so well in and pretty much across my life I really felt like I had been blessed and favoured by God. But if there is one area that I thought you know what there was a few regrets. It would have been in the area of finance.

You see all of our married lives. We have been married for 20 years. We have always lived in a rented home. We have never lived in a property that we owned and you know I am getting to 40…”

Chris Rosebrough, “Who is he preaching about? Himself…”

Steve Mawston, “I am thinking you know I would look around at all my friends that had you know brought a house when they were young and then they got some equity and they built a bigger house and you know most of my friends that I grew up have now got these beautiful houses and here I am – I am 40 years old and I still don’t live in my own house and so really prayed, ‘God, what do you want me to do?’

I have got some good advice and the advice was that I needed to buy a house – which is all well and good. But when I turned 40 it was post GFC and in Australia banks weren’t lending money. To get a loan, to buy a house, you needed a twenty percent deposit. Now there was two challenges with those buying a house. Number one was the size of the deposit. Number two was the size of my wife’s expectations. Alright and how many men can relate to that?

So the kind of house that I knew I would choose was very specific. It had to have four bedrooms so there is enough space for the kids and us and then if we had guests and mum and dad came over and because we live in Australia it had to have a pool and I am like yeah you are living in dreamland. But Rachel has always had this gift of faith and expectation.

So she wouldn’t budge an inch – wouldn’t budge an inch and I remember we were at our Life Group one night and there was a little Irish girl called Lisa Moore and at the end of the night we prayed for each other and everyone was leaving and she walked to the door. But then she walked back. She said, ‘Steven and Rachel can I just talk to you for a second?’

So she said to us, ‘Look I really feel this is Tuesday night…’ She said, ‘I really feel God has spoken to me. You guys need to get your own house. So that was Tuesday night. I thought cool. That is kind of what we want to do. So that was confirmation. The next night Rachel was speaking at our Next Steps night in our church and she was preaching and a guy came up to her on the Wednesday night – the very next night. He said, ‘I want you and your husband to my house to meet me and my wife and I have got a seed that I want to give you.

I thought strange seed. But we thought we would go anyway it would be a good feed and they are nice people and we would see what the seed was and so we went there on the Sunday and after we had eaten this beautiful meal – then he gave us an envelope and on the outside of the envelope was a bit of sellotape with a seed stuck to it and inside was a cheque for $5,000 dollars.

Chris Rosebrough, “What is it with these guys where seed equals money?”

Steve Mawston, “He said I don’t know your situation. But I really feel this is towards you guys buying your own house. So he gave us that. So that was Tuesday, that was Wednesday. So then he says to us well I was at an auction yesterday and the house didn’t – the block of land didn’t sell…

Chris Rosebrough, “Keep in mind this story does not appear anywhere in scripture. This isn’t a biblical story. This is not even a Christian story. This is a personal experience…”

Steve Mawston, “Do you want me to go and show you it? So he took us. It was about two minutes away from his house. He took us down to this beautiful block of land. Seven hundred square metre and it had been brought by a hundred and sixty dollars – $160 – and he had gone bankrupt. So it was now owned by the bank and the bank had been offered two hundred and fifty thousand dollars – $250,000.
But they wanted more money for it. Right so they had taken it to an auction.

Nobody turned up for the first auction. So it didn’t sell – auctioned it again. The second time, three months later – nobody turned up for the auction. It didn’t sell. So it was just lying there. So we looked at this block of land and it looked beautiful and it reminded us of England and so we decided to put a bid in. I mean I haven’t got a clue about bidding for land. I have never put a bid on anything in my life.

So I got this guy to tell me. I said how much shall I put a bid in? And he said a hundred and eighty thousand – $180,000 – so I said well they just turned down two hundred and fifty thousand – $250,000. You said you believe in God don’t you? So we put a bid in for one hundred and eighty thousand. When I put the bid in the guy was from my church the agent. I didn’t know that…”

Chris Rosebrough, “Isn’t it funny how these stories that all revolve around money just have a way of hooking people via their greed…”

Steve Mawston, “And he was really friendly and he said look and he said, ‘Steve I really want to help you. I will do what I can. But they turned two hundred and fifty thousand. I think you are going to have to offer a bit more than one hundred and eighty. So I called my friend he said, ‘No don’t offer any more – a hundred and eighty it is…’ He said, ‘If you get it for a hundred and ninety you will have done really well…’
So I said, ‘No it is one hundred and eighty. Go back one more time. See what the bank said. The bank came back to us and said, ‘Okay we accept your offer – a hundred and eighty thousand dollars.’

So we got some land. Then I had to choose a house…”

Chris Rosebrough, “It must be a miracle. This is what it means to have locusts removed from your property apparently…”

Steve Mawston, “I had to choose a house. We built the house. The builder was a friend of mine. I said I am going to build your house and I am not going to make a penny on it. I will build it for you, for the cost that it cost me. So we had $5,000 dollars. We got a house. We got land. The Queensland government gave us $10,000 because we are first home buyers in Australia and $7,000 because it was a brand new building.

The price of our deposit was $22,000 dollars. Seventeen, the government gave us $5,000. The guy had given us. We had every penny paid for. We have now six months later. We have moved into a beautiful house. It has got four bedrooms…”

Chris Rosebrough, “That is a lovely real estate story. I have no idea what this has to do with God’s word, sound biblical doctrine, Christ and him crucified for our sins…”

Steve Mawston, “We had every penny paid for. We have now six months later. We have moved into a beautiful house. It has got four bedrooms. It has got a swimming pool…”

Chris Rosebrough, “Yeah that is great I am glad for you…”

Steve Mawston “…It has got a swimming pool and all of those years where I felt everyone else was moving ahead and we were going nowhere. We had someone come in to value the property two weeks ago. The guy that valued it was the guy that first sold it for $260,000 and it is seen on the records that I brought it for – he said how did you buy it for that amount? And he valued the property and the property is worth one hundred and thirty thousand dollars – $130,000 more than what I am paying for it already.

God says I will restore the years…

Joel 2 v 27
I will restore the years the locust has eaten…

Mr. Dobson…”

Chris Rosebrough, “Yeah and your real estate story has nothing to do with Joel 2?”

Steve Mawston, “Mr. Dobson if you are listening to this CD our God is able. Come on give Rachel a welcome as she comes again…”

Chris Rosebrough, “Back to Rachel to finish up…”

Rachel Mawston, “Awesome and actually our furniture
has been second hand for a lot of years now…”

Chris Rosebrough, “Oh so are you now at first hand furniture. I mean it must be like the locusts have gone away…”

Rachel Mawston, “Awesome and actually our furniture has been second hand for a lot of years now and it would not have looked good in a new house and one of my desires was to have some new furniture and part of the guy that built the house cost price. We got the mortgage for a certain amount and he built it for this amount.

So there was a big chunk of money left that we could use to furnish the house and we were able to go out and buy new things and I was just I just felt blessed that the LORD had…”

Chris Rosebrough, “This is what we call false signs and false wonders…”

Rachel Mawston, “So there was a big chunk of money left that we could use to furnish the house and we were able to go out and buy new things and I was just I just felt blessed that the LORD had done more than I had even asked for and we are able to have people over and so you can come and visit and stay with us.

So the LORD wants to restore a huge key to restoring what was lost and a huge key to embracing what is new is when he restores the joy of our salvation. When you have walked with God for a lot of years, you can very easily although you still love him. You can slip into same old very easily. The most spiritual – the most fantastic of preachers. The most awesome of worship leaders…”

Chris Rosebrough, “Just fall into the same old oh no…”

Rachel Mawston, “The people that are seasoned and have worked followed the LORD for a lot of years. We can all slip into not having the same joy of salvation. I was so challenged with this when we went to a conference in March this year our Colour Your World Women’s Conference in Sydney and I flew there with my daughter Melody.

She came with me for the first time this year and we I love the conference. But the LORD did something new in just loving him and going back to my roots and the joy of salvation and the joy of sins forgiven and I just kept being in tears and kept sensing the presence of God and so thankful for HIS Holy Spirit, so thankful for the way I have been brought up and knowing the word and loving the word and honestly saying to the LORD, if I never minister again. If I never get to do any of those dreams that I have written down on that paper just to know that I am brought with a price…”

Chris Rosebrough, “Yeah you are. The blood of Jesus, something we haven’t really heard anything about in this sermon….”

Rachel Mawston, “I am going to heaven just to know that I can walk with you and talk with you and love you and just do something to love others. Every day that is enough for me….”

Chris Rosebrough, “That is great and all – why don’t you obey him and HIS word? You know women are not supposed to be pastors. Why don’t you preach Christ and Him crucified even though you are not supposed to be preaching? You get what I am saying…”

Rachel Mawston, “…and on the way home on the plane I was reading Psalm 51 and David said, ‘Create in me a clean heart…’ It is v10…

Psalm 51 v 10
10 Create in me a clean heart, O LORD,
And renew a steadfast spirit within me.

And it goes on to stay restore to me the joy of my salvation…

Chris Rosebrough, “Yes this is talking about God’s mercy and his forgiveness. Yeah great passage. Let’s see if we get a gospel nugget out of it…”

Rachel Mawston, “…And here David was coming to the LORD repenting. He committed adultery and murder and covered up a murder and you know what we may have done could be small in comparison…”

Chris Rosebrough, “The one thing you learn about your sinful state when you look at God’s law is we are all wretched sinners. James says that if you have broken one of the commandments you have broken them all and so Christians understand this none of us is righteous – not one. You don’t want to engage in the kind of game we sit there and go, ‘Well his sins are way worse than my sins because I am better…’

No blessed are the poor the spiritual beggars who know they have nothing at all. More major problems here. Even though she is steering into something that sounds like it could accidentally become the gospel. Let’s see what happens we continue…”

Rachel Mawston, “But he was calling unto God to restore the joy and this man it says and I know you have heard before he was a man after God’s own heart…”

Chris Rosebrough, “No he wasn’t just asking for joy. It is the joy of his salvation. Not just joy, joy of his salvation. Yeah got to pay attention to the whole sentence there and you know….

Psalm 51 v 10
Create in me a clean heart, O God.
Renew a steadfast spirit within me…
Cast me not away from your presence

Yeah all of that stuff was the important thing and the joy of his salvation is none other than God himself…”

Rachel Mawston, “But he was calling unto God to restore the joy and this man it says and I know you have heard before he was a man after God’s own heart and I believe it is because he saw the value of the presence of God and restoring a joy that fills your day to day life. Just because of whose you are and because of who what he has equipped us to do and just being with him and being in his presence and I wrote some of these scriptures down.

Not scriptures actually some thoughts down on the plane. I don’t know if it was the first or I think it was the second Colour Conference and I just wrote down what salvation means to me and just thought about salvation again and this is what I wrote….

I wrote I have been rescued from death. Life has meaning and purpose. I have peace of mind. I have joy of knowing my sins are forgiven and forgotten. I have expectation for my future. I have new life fulfilled exciting and abundant. I know the one who made me.

Chris Rosebrough, “Yeah I have got to give her credit for that. That was a gospel nugget. Now if you are not familiar with a gospel nugget we rarely hear those nowadays. But the idea is that it is not a main point of the sermon and was somehow the gospel was mentioned somehow in passing not really the main point. But you know you heard it so.

But it used to be that we would hear these all the time. Now we rarely hear them so we have got to give credit here. That was the gospel flying in and going out probably about what five point three the way she is preaching. We continue…”

I know the one who made me and the one who knows me best. My past failures are gone. Today is a new day, any condemnation or guilt is relieved and placed on Him. I live in wholeness. Right standing with my God, because of what He has done. He hears my every prayer and the cry of my heart.

He makes all things possible. Everlasting life and eternal hope are mine. Purpose for my every day. I am empowered, called, anointed, appointed, destined for great things. I have been transformed from death to life. I am accepted and loved just as I am. I am chosen and precious. I am brought with a price.

I am a joint heir with Jesus and all His promises. I am a daughter of the king of kings and lord of lords. I am called by name. I have been predestined in my mother’s womb. Every hair of my head is counted. I have authority over sickness, and every obstacle the enemy brings across my path. I have wisdom for life. I am cheered on by those who have gone before.

I am heaven destined. I am protected by angels. I am a new creation. I have a daily love relationship with my maker. My feet are on solid rock. I have life security. I am made in His image and His power flows in my veins. I am filled and empowered with His Spirit. I am endued and equipped with resurrection power. Alive in God – precious to God – His work of art….”

Chris Rosebrough, “Yeah notice all the me’s eise, me, me, me. Who is she talking about? Yeah she is talking about herself…”

Rachel Mawston, “Made in His image. I am living proof of my Saviours keeping power and I see the evidence of changed lives all around me. Knowing this, knowing all of this keeps me fuelled with joy and a desire and a passion in my heart. The Bible talks about a fire shut up in my bones and we need to be people living today with a fire and a passion and a love for our God. Come on let’s applaud our Saviour…”

Chris Rosebrough, “You know actually you are
applauding yourself. That is what you are doing…”

Rachel Mawston, “Come on let’s applaud our Saviour for all He has done.

Psalm 103 v 1-2
1 Bless the LORD, Oh my soul;
all that is within me.
2 I bless your name.
Forget not all His benefits…”

Chris Rosebrough, “Man her screeching like that. Fingers on a chalk board…”

Rachel Mawston, “Forget not all His benefits (Psalm 103 v 1).
He heals us. He redeems us.

Psalm 103 v 5
He satisfies our mouth with good things.

He renews our strength. He renews our youth. That is something else he renews. He renews our youth and you know a sense of renewing youth is the ability to be filled with wide eyed wonder and just expect anything to happen.

[The mysterious way of the long lived eagle symbolized strength and speed
(Exodus 19 v 4; Jeremiah 48 v 40), which also characterizes human youth. As a general rule, a person blessed of God will grow weak and slow down less rapidly than otherwise (Isaiah 40 v 29-31, which uses the same language)

Isaiah 40 v 31
31 But those who wait on the LORD Shall renew their strength; They shall mount up with wings like eagles, They shall run and not be weary, They shall walk and not faint.

Chris Rosebrough, “What just insert your own meaning into a you know ripped out of context verse that is why you rip them out of context so you can make it mean whatever you want it to mean.

Rachel Mawston, “That is what kids do. I learn it from my little Mercy and Mel’s all the time. They just expect great things to happen. When they pray they just assume that it is going to happen. They have a child like faith and the Bible calls us to be like children. The kingdom of God is like a little child.

When we have not childish. But a child like faith to expect that anything can happen. To be grateful for all that we have. To see fresh possibilities in every situation. To see not the obstacles but the opportunities that they present – because the obstacles do come and the storms do come our way. But they all provide opportunities to love him more dearly. To see him more clearly. To be able to reach out with His arms of love. So to restore that which has been lost. To restore the joy of our salvation and then to be able to reach out and take hold of that which is new for each one of us…”

Chris Rosebrough, “So has the joy your salvation been eaten by locusts. Yeah well you are going to have it restored you know.

Rachel Mawston, “Oh gosh I don’t know what to tell you about and what to leave out. Listen to this actually when I talked about the Joel 2 scripture about the locusts restoring what the locusts have eaten…”

Chris Rosebrough, “Yeah the one you didn’t pay attention to the context or the historical context and you made it say something that it is not saying. Made God promise something that He is not promising. Yeah that text. I am familiar with it yeah. Yeah it is burned into my brain now probably forever…”

Rachel Mawston, “It says in there that my people will never be put to shame and they will know that I am in the midst and there is no other and it says my people will praise the name of the LORD.

Joel 2 v 27 (NKJV)
27 Then you shall know that I am in the midst of Israel:
I am the LORD your God
And there is no other.
My people shall never be put to shame.

And that scripture I read at the beginning about God doing a new thing and the key to that was going to be praise…”

Chris Rosebrough, “Yeah from Isaiah 43 doesn’t have anything to do with Joel 2 by the way at least the scripture that you ripped out of context…”

Rachel Mawston “…The key to restoring all things is going to be praise and I remember when I had a miscarriage years and years ago…”

Chris Rosebrough, “The key is praise. So it depends on us, ah ular no gospel there

Rachel Mawston, “…The key to my restoring in that time was praise. I started singing a new song, at that time we were singing shout to the LORD. My comfort my tower of refuge and strength and I started to worship and praise with a whole new light and every time since then when I worship I actually think about every word that I am singing and just that in itself can give a freshness to our worship…”

Chris Rosebrough, “Good on you yeah…”

Rachel Mawston, “When you think about every one of those words on the screen –

Chris Rosebrough, “Yeah and that freshness will
just get rid of those locusts you know…”

Rachel Mawston, “…most of them are the word of God. They are scripture. It starts to bring to life. It starts to restore what has been lost. It starts to rekindle those embers and the fire and makes us ready to reach out with confidence, with boldness to embrace what is new. Let me just leave and you read this scripture. I am just going to leave a few things out there. Philippians 3 v 13 it says so skipping ahead a few scriptures

Philippians 3 v 13
13 I forget those things which are behind and I reach forwards to those things which are ahead, I press towards the goal….

I press toward the goal. (repeats) That means we
are pushing against some resistance….

Chris Rosebrough, “And you think that passage in Philippians has to do with locusts and stuff like that. I don’t think so. But let’s keep listening for a minute.

Philippians 3 v 13
13 One thing I do I forget those things which are behind and I reach forwards to those things which are ahead, I press towards the goal for the prize of the upward call in Christ Jesus….

I press toward the goal. (repeats) That means
we are pushing against some resistance….

Chris Rosebrough, “Yeah the things that he is leaving behind and forgetting that is a very specific thing. Let’s take a look at Philippians 3. Great passage by the way when it comes to properly understanding the difference between law and gospel. God’s law condemns us and many people think that because we are guilty before God of sinning and you know our sin has separated us from God.

That it is our responsibility through our law keeping to make the relationship right. It is not. Okay God is the one who clothes us in Christ’s righteousness. God is the one who forgives us and we are not saved by our works. That is the whole point here in Philippians 3. I will start at Philippians 3 v 2.

Philippians 3 v 2-6 (ESV)
2 Look out for the dogs, look out for the evildoers, look out for those who mutilate the flesh. 3 For we are the circumcision, who worship by the Spirit of God and glory in Christ Jesus and put no confidence in the flesh— 4 though I myself have reason for confidence in the flesh also. If anyone else thinks he has reason for confidence in the flesh, I have more:

5 circumcised on the eighth day, of the people of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, a Hebrew of Hebrews; as to the law, a Pharisee; 6 as to zeal, a persecutor of the church; as to righteousness under the law, blameless.

This is Paul describing himself as a Pharisee right.

Philippians 3 v 7-8
7 But whatever gain I had, I counted as loss for the sake of Christ. 8 Indeed, I count everything as loss because of the surpassing worth of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord. For his sake I have suffered the loss of all things and count them…

(all of his works as a Pharisee) I count them as rubbish, in order that I may gain Christ 9 and be found in him, not having a righteousness of my own that comes from the law, but that which comes through faith in Christ, the righteousness from God that depends on faith— 10 that I may know him and the power of his resurrection, and may share his sufferings, becoming like him in his death, 11 that by any means possible I may attain the resurrection from the dead.
12 Not that I have already obtained this or am already perfect, but I press on to make it my own, because Christ Jesus has made me his own. 13 Brothers, I do not consider that I have made it my own. But one thing I do: forgetting what lies behind (all of his sin right) and straining forward to what lies ahead, 14 I press on toward the goal for the prize of the upward call of God in Christ Jesus. 15 Let those of us who are mature think this way, and if in anything you think otherwise, God will reveal that also to you. 16 Only let us hold true to what we have attained.

Chris Rosebrough, “Great passage unfortunately she is not paying attention to the context and she left out all the important parts and now she is the parts that she has ripped out of context and disconnected from the gospel. She is trying to make it fit with this locust theology thing and new thing theology that is not what this passage is about at all….”

Rachel Mawston, “I press toward the goal. That means we are pushing against some resistance. It is not always easy. But we intentionally press. We intentionally write down those dreams and desires. We intentionally speak to people about what we feel that the LORD is going to do in and through us. We start declaring it over our congregation. We declare it over our Life Groups…”

Chris Rosebrough, “Where are you getting this from
Philippians 3 again? I just read it in context it is not there….”

Rachel Mawston, “We declare it over our families. We are forgetting what has gone before and we are pressing ahead to the goal to the prize to the upward calling He is preparing the bride. He is preparing each one of us for the new thing that He is already starting I believe. But he is faithful to complete what He has started in you.

Embrace the new. Isaiah 43 v 17 this is what I read at the beginning. Listen to this in The Message. This is what God says. The God who builds a road right through the ocean who carves a path through

Isaiah 43 v 16-21 (The Message MSG)
16-21 This is what GOD says,
the God who builds a road right through the ocean,
who carves a path through pounding waves,
The God who summons horses and chariots and armies—
they lie down and then can’t get up;
they’re snuffed out like so many candles:
“Forget about what’s happened;
don’t keep going over old history.
Be alert, be present. Be ready….

I’m about to do something brand-new.
It’s bursting out! Don’t you see it?

Chris Rosebrough, “Yeah again all of these passages have been ripped out of context and none of them hang together the way you have hung them….”

Rachel Mawston, “There it is! I’m making a road through the desert…’

It is time for expansion. It is time to reach out.
Enlarge our circle of love. God does something new….”

Chris Rosebrough, “Enlarge our bank accounts and
our properties and things like that yeah….”

Rachel Mawston, “God does something new in us so that we can reach out to the woman in what is the shops here? I thinking of our local supermarkets Asda. Asda how can I forget? Asda, Sainsburys, the local woman that you check out. The school mums, the school gate, the people that you work with that come across your path. The person that fixes your car.

The person that you buy a coffee from. That person that you have been inviting to church for years and they still haven’t come. I believe God is going to give you something new to say to them or do something new in them and they will come. People that have gone and left. They will come back….”
.
Chris Rosebrough, “Absolutely clueless as to what The Bible is about. Doesn’t have any desire to even pay attention to what any of it actually means in context. This is nonsense….”

Rachel Mawston, “People that have gone and left. They will come back. God is restoring and bringing back. But he is also doing that something new in you that you will be able to reach out and the relationships that you form with people that are out there are going to be in here and they are going to be your friends and they are going to be your family. But it is all to do with relationship and we need to expand. Isaiah 54. I have just got to give you all these amazing scriptures.

Isaiah 54 v 1-3 and you have heard this before
and this is a prophetic word for you and for the church.

Chris Rosebrough, “Isaiah 54 it is about Jesus. I am sure.

Rachel Mawston, “Isaiah 54 v 2, “Enlarge the place of your tent….”

Chris Rosebrough, “They got all these verses out of context. Enlarge the tent. Do something new. Remove the locusts and experience prosperity. This is flat out narcissistic heresy. Not the preaching of Christ,
nor of even rightly handling Gods word.

Rachel Mawston, “Isaiah 54 v 2. Let your curtains or your
habitations be stretched out…”
Don’t get comfortable with your little group. Don’t get comfortable with your family. Don’t get comfortable with your friends. Don’t get comfortable with your day to day routine.

Chris Rosebrough, “Yeah don’t get comfortable with your Bible twisting Rachel….”

Rachel Mawston, “Don’t get comfortable with your ministry
and what you are doing now. Allow him to stretch. Spare not…

Israel 54 v 2
Do not spare;
Lengthen your cords,

Yes you are still attached. But you are lengthening and as our reach increases – our depth we need to go down even deeper and the word of God needs to become more precious to us. We need to study this word and this year I have had a fresh revelation of God’s word and I have read it for years. But suddenly it is becoming more like life to me. In my day to day and doing an extra study actually – a Beth Moore study. I don’t know how many of you have heard of Beth Moore. She teaches and studies God’s word and doing those studies.

Chris Rosebrough, “Yeah that explains where some of the problems are here…”

Rachel Mawston, “But just every day journaling and taking His word into my day to day life. He gives you the key to speak to people around. He gives you the key to be able to go deeper. He gives you the key in this word. The Bible says he gives you the keys to the kingdom. What is bound on earth is bound in heaven. What is loosed on earth, is loosed in heaven.

You need to see chains broken. It is already done. You just declare it be so. It is done in heaven. It is going to be done in earth. You need to see things bound up that have been tying you down and tying you down. They need to be bound up. It is already done in heaven. So let it be done in earth in Jesus name. So enlarge the place of your tent in Jesus name.

Isaiah 54 v 2
So enlarge the place of your tent…

In some versions of The Bible it says enlarge
your habitation or enlarge your house. That is you personally….”

Yeah see I mean if you have got a two bedroom jobbie right now, you are going to have your house expanded probably to five or six bedrooms. Because The Bible says so right here right. No it doesn’t. This is not what Gods word is promising you…”

Rachel Mawston, “In some versions of The Bible it says enlarge your habitation or enlarge your house. That is you personally your home. Your day to day life. Think bigger. Think enlarging. Think God enlarge me. Enlarge my capacity. Enlarge my thinking. Enlarge my heart to reach out and extend and it says spare not.

Don’t hold back. Be generous. Generous with our finances. Generous with our smiles. Generous with our encouragement. Generous with the words that we give. Generous with inviting people to our homes. Generous with going to that person one extra time to invite them to church. Even when you think, ‘Uh give up on them. Someone else will get them…’ You go back and keep inviting them and keep being generous and reach out and God will do what He has promised.

You know the tent was something very common to the Hebrew people….”

Chris Rosebrough, “Yeah it had to do with real estate just like
your house with a swimming pool and all yeah…”

Rachel Mawston, “You know the tent was something very common to the Hebrew people and the tabernacle was the presence of God was carried in a tent and through Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus the children of God camped from place to place in tents and when the family grew they would need to enlarge the tent and the way that they enlarged the tent.

The roof was made of goat’s hair – woven goats hair and the sun would shine and it would kind of melt with the tar stuff that they would use and it would cause it to be waterproof. Every once in a while when the family grew they would need to add a strip to enlarge the tent. They would not get a new tent. They would add a strip of goat’s hair that would take a year to weave and the family would weave it and would add a strip.

So the tent would be handed on from one generation to the next generation and each time the family grew. It would be enlarged and extra patches of goats hair would get added on which would take a year to make. So the tent itself was like an air loam. Something that was spoke of the generations.

That which God is doing in enlarging and embracing something new is built on generations and this soil foundations that have been built from years and years ago. Forty years ago, fifty years ago that has been added to and added to and added to and sometimes can take a year to weave a new bit of cloth that is going to enlarge. Sometimes it can be painful.

But you know what God is speeding up that process because his family is growing quickly and so we have got to be able to draw on the foundations of generations gone and embrace. It is our responsibility to embrace what is new for the generations to come in Jesus name amen.
Chris Rosebrough, “Done, total biblical train wreck. Why because this wasn’t a biblical teaching. It was a bunch of verses ripped from their context specifically ignoring their context so that then you can hang all these verses together to make them say something that none of them says. To teach something that nowhere in the Bible is something like this taught.

The idea is that when you make when you rip verses out of context you can make The Bible say anything. You take the verse that says Judas went and hung himself and then connect it with the other verses. It says go thou and do likewise and you connect the dots it makes it sound like, ‘Hey God wants you to do yourself in…’ Yet Gods word makes it clear He doesn’t want you to do yourself in. That is what this was. This was a suicidal theology.

Why because she rather than fear the LORD, pay attention to His word and treat Gods word as the very oracles of God and very carefully make sure that she doesn’t twist anything that Gods word says. She has been taught very poorly at Hillsong and now at this other church to basically wrestle the scriptures out of context. Make it about you. Talk about you and not preach Christ.

All under the pretence of this is a Christian sermon delivered by a Christian lady who is teaching us something that God wants us to hear. But He doesn’t want us to hear any of this nonsense. Because all of this nonsense is false doctrine – you get what I am saying.

Alright we are at the end of another addition of Fighting for the Faith. If you would like to email me regarding anything you have heard on this edition or any previous editions. You can do so my email address is talkback@fightingforthefaith.com or you can subscribe on Facebook – http://www.facebook.com/piratechristianradio or follow me on Twitter. My name there is @piratechristian. Until tomorrow may God richly bless you in the grace and mercy won by Jesus Christ and His vicarious death on the cross for all of His sins amen.

 

Fighting for the faith – Chris Rosebrough – Sermon Review – Maker of Miracles by Christine Caine

Below is a transcript taken from Chris Rosebrough’s radio show podcast Fighting For The Faith Radio podcast which was originally broadcast on Monday January 6th 2014, which you can subscribe to on iTunes. I highly recommend you do this if you want to develop discernment.

You can also listen to this unbiblical sermon from Christine Caine – Maker of Miracles. This is available on YouTube > http://youtu.be/3957FwQs-0w

Here is the video link  for this transcript > http://youtu.be/VNd1M71X5JI

[Segment One - 00:17:40 – 00:19:28]

Chris Rosebrough, “We will be in hour number two, we will be listening to a sermon preached yeah is that the right way of putting it – a sermon preached by Christine Caine. She is one of the Hillsong pastors who is out at large and she was at Craig Groeschel’s Life Church Dot TV not too long ago and the name of the sermon we will be reviewing from Christine Caine again word of faith heretic.

You know she is a pastor of Hillsong Church at large here in the United States and has quite a following. Because she has been promoted by well Joel Osteen, Rick Warren – you know the list goes on and on. Even recently Beth Moore you know tweeted out that she has spent some quality time with Christine Caine and even went to see Christine Caine preach at Joel Osteen’s Lakewood.

Yeah that is right and so you know of course I noted that during the Christmas break. You know that Beth Moore had said that she went to Joel Osteen’s church to hear Christine Caine preach and I noted that this tells us a lot about Beth Moore’s theology and then people tweeted back to me and said, ‘Uh who is Christine Caine and why is that bad?’

So I thought we would review another. We have done by the way this is not the first Christine Caine sermon that we have reviewed here at Fighting for the Faith. But the name of the sermon we will be reviewing is called Maker of Miracles by Christine Caine preached just like a week and a half ago at Life Church Dot TV.”

Sermon Review: Maker of Miracles by Christine Caine of Hillsong

Okay we are back hour number two of Fighting for the Faith. Sermon review time. We will be listening to a Christine Caine sermon. Christine Caine is a pastor from well Hillsong Church. She is kind of their ambassadorial pastor at large. Makes the round among the seeker driven megachurches.

The good, the bad, the ugly – we review it all here at Fighting for the Faith. We are an equal opportunities sermon reviewing service. Today’s sermon comes to us via Life Church Dot TV in Oklahoma city Oklahoma. This is where Craig Groeschel is the vision casting leader and the sermon is by Christine Caine the pastor, ambassador at large for Hillsong Church and the name of her message is Maker of Miracles and would you be surprised if I told you that she is going to twist God’s word and engage in narcissistic eisegesis and bad allegorizing of a text. You shouldn’t be. Not only is she not biblically able to be a pastor. She shouldn’t be preaching at all. She is going to twist God’s word on top of it.

Now this always causes confusion for people. The reason being is because I am going to be correcting her as if she should be preaching correctly, when she shouldn’t be preaching at all. So don’t confuse my correction as some kind of a tacit approval that she is preaching when she shouldn’t be.

So let me go ahead and kill the music and without any further or due. Here is Christine Caine and her sermon entitled Maker of Miracles. Here we go. I think she is introduced though by Craig Groeschel. Let’s do this right. Here we go.

Craig Groeschel, “Welcome today let’s introduce all of live church campuses, our network churches and those of you joining us from countries around the world. I have got to tell you – you are going to be blown away and blessed today. Because I have one of the finest guest speakers in the whole world who is going to minister to you today.

I want to tell you about Christine Caine and then you are going to get a chance to go crazy. Christine is one of our closest friends. She and Nick are very dear to both Amy and to me. We love them more than I can tell you. They are from Hillsong Church based out of Sydney, Australia. But you cannot contain Hillsong Church because they are all over the world. Christine is one of the finest evangelists I know. She is one of the greatest teachers on leadership I know. She is an amazing author. You have got to pick up her book Undaunted. If you haven’t read it you are missing out. She is the founder of A21 – a ministry that we support and we love that helps rescue people from human trafficking.

The chick can preach like nobody’s business. Would you please join me in giving her a warm Life Church Dot TV welcome. Please welcome Christine Caine.

Christine Caine, “Thank you pastor Craig. How excited I am to be here. What an honour. Thank you pastor Craig and Amy. Nick and I love you guys so much and this is home away from home you all – end time you know who I am talking to all the Life Churches, all our Network Churches, all the churches and people watching this around the world – but they tell me that you all say you are all here and I from Australia where we speak the Queens English. We say awesome and I don’t know whatever location you are in. You all need to say awesome.

[Crowd repeats]

See that sounds very dignified. Now if you are from America you need to say it like an American say, ‘awesome’ can you just tell there is a slight difference. Now we say awesome and you say awesome and you know I just want to echo everything that pastor Craig said we are like family. I am part of Hillsong, although I don’t sing people get very disappointed. They think if a chick gets up from Hillsong she is going to start singing Shout to the LORD.

But if I sing shout to the LORD – you will all cry to the LORD. So that isn’t going to happen and we have been part of the leadership team at Hillsong Church for 25 years and so really since I was a 1 year old and it is really just continued. Nick and I have been married for 18 years. We have two beautiful daughters. Katherine, Bobbie and Sophia, Joyce and whenever I am around pastor Craig and Amy. I feel I like I need to say they are the alpha and omega. I have got the beginning and the end. We only have two – we don’t do six and so that is kind of how it works my part of the world. I am going to jump right into the text today. I am just like family. So I am just an extended part of your global teaching team.

So if you would turn with me to The Book of Mark chapter 6. I am both Greek and a woman. So I only speak three ways – hard fast and continuously so you will not fall asleep and you better listen fast. So the Bible says in v30 of Mark 6.

Mark 6 v 30-31 (NIV – New International Version)
30 The apostles gathered around Jesus and reported to him all they had done and taught. 31 Then, because so many people were coming and going that they did not even have a chance to eat,

They are obviously not from Oklahoma city, but anyway….

Mark 6 v 31-36 (NIV – New International Version)
31 He said to them, “Come with me by yourselves to a quiet place and get some rest.” 32 So they went away by themselves in a boat to a solitary place. 33 But many who saw them leaving recognized them and ran on foot from all the towns and got there ahead of them. 34 When Jesus landed and saw a large crowd, he had compassion on them, because they were like sheep without a shepherd. So he began teaching them many things.

35 By this time it was late in the day, so his disciples came to him. “This is a remote place,” they said, “and it’s already very late. 36 Send the people away so that they can go to the surrounding countryside and villages and (go to the Jerusalem food court and) buy (some komas) themselves something to eat.”

I am actually just checking if anyone is following the text with me. It is just sort of how I have a look. It is in the original Greek I did check. But you know you can do your own research and so it says in v37….

Mark 6 v 37-42 (NIV – New International Version)
37 But he answered, “You give them something to eat.” They said to him, “That would take more than half a year’s wages! Are we to go and spend that much on bread and give it to them to eat?” 38 “How many loaves do you have?” he asked. “Go and see.” When they found out, they said, “Five—and two fish.”

39 Then Jesus directed them to have all the people sit down in groups on the green grass. 40 So they sat down in groups of hundreds and fifties. 41 Taking the five loaves and the two fish and looking up to heaven, he gave thanks and broke the loaves. Then he gave them to his disciples to distribute to the people. He also divided the two fish among them all. 42 They all ate and were satisfied, 43 and the disciples picked up twelve basketfuls of broken pieces

Everyone say broken pieces.

[Crowd repeats]

Mark 6 v 42-51 (NIV – New International Version)
42 They all ate and were satisfied, 43 and the disciples picked up twelve basketfuls of broken pieces of bread and fish. 44 The number of the men who had eaten was five thousand. 45 Immediately Jesus made his disciples get into the boat and go on ahead of him to Bethsaida, while he dismissed the crowd. 46 After leaving them, he went up on a mountainside to pray.

47 Later that night, the boat was in the middle of the lake, and he was alone on land. 48 He saw the disciples straining at the oars, because the wind was against them. About the fourth watch of the night Shortly before dawn he went out to them, walking on the lake. (As you would) He was about to pass by them, 49 but when they saw him walking on the lake, they thought he was a ghost. They cried out, 50 because they all saw him and were terrified. Immediately he spoke to them and said, “Take courage! It is I. Don’t be afraid.” 51 Then he climbed into the boat with them, and the wind died down.

Chris Rosebrough, “Okay now I am going to pause for a second and point out something obvious. Well at least it should be obvious. But it may not be for some. Notice she is reading through a large swath of a historical narrative. Okay now this is where you have to understand sound biblical hermeneutics. Now if you have not already heard my lectures on how to not be snookered and bamboozled and hoodwinked. You need to go to the Fighting for the Faith website and find those episodes of Fighting for the Faith on the lectures that I did a year ago on how not be snookered, deceived and bamboozled and you know by hucksters and things like that.

The reason why is because in sound biblical hermeneutics there is kind of a you know a hierarchy if you would when it comes to understanding things of this nature and what I mean by that is this – is that when you have a historical narrative you have got to be really careful about the theology that you assign to it. Now maybe the reason she is preaching through the historical narrative is because she is going to try smuggle a theology in under the guise of preaching through a historical narrative text. But the way I like to explain it is this is that if you were somebody who two thousand years ago happened to be wondering into the city of Jerusalem at the same time that Jesus was being crucified just outside the city walls and you were to have viewed and saw Jesus actually hanging on the cross between the two thieves.

What would the theology of what was happening be? And you are going, ‘well wouldn’t Jesus be dying on the cross for my sins’ and I would you know that would be a safe answer. But see the thing is that let’s say that you didn’t know that and I asked you okay theologically what is happening over there? That guy in the middle he is you know he is literally about ready to expire on the cross. Theologically what does that all mean?
Now some of you know not knowing the gospel might say well that guy is being punished for his sins. He is an evildoer and he is getting his just rewards. That might be a theology attached to it and a good guess by the way that would be a great guess.

But it would be wrong. Okay without a didactic text telling us what the theology of a historical narrative is or within the narrative itself a theology clearly laid out. You have got to be very careful in how you handle a historical narrative. So that you don’t eisegete that means to read into a biblical text something that isn’t there, a theology that is not in any biblical text. So already I am on edge here. Because she is reading a historical narrative and hermeneutically I know what she is up to. But I am trying to help you see so that you can understand what she is up to. Let’s continue….”

Mark 6 v 51-52 (NIV – New International Version)
51They were completely amazed, 52 for they had not understood about the loaves; their hearts were hardened.

Here in this text we have two very familiar stories that many of us I guess if you have been in church life at all or if you haven’t have come across a story of Jesus multiplying the fish and loaves and Jesus walking on water and normally we would teach this as two separate stories. But I don’t think you can separate v30 from v52 because the story starts before the story and ends after the story as is often the case.

We start up on a mountain side and The Bible says that the disciples had been teaching all day and they came back to Jesus and they gave an account of everything they had done and taught. No one can just go and teach whatever they want to teach. They have got to come back and give an account to authority and leadership. This is what I have been teaching – is it all okay? And so they were hungry. There is nothing ever incidental in the text that tells us that the disciples had not eaten. So they were really hungry. Jesus said we need a break. We need a rest and so what we are going to do is we are going to go over to the other side and we are going to have a little break.

Now something interesting happens before Twitter, before Facebook, before Fox News, before CNN, before global satellites, before Life Church TV because you are everywhere it is a little bit like God you are just omnipresent. So before all of that something happened where a crowd got there on foot before Jesus ever got there in a boat. There was obviously something so compelling, something so magnetic, something so attractive about this man Jesus. That people would end up getting somewhere before He ever got there. They didn’t come after the fourth worship song. They were there before he ever got there, waiting to hear from Jesus. It has taught me that when Jesus is in the house. You can’t keep people away.

People don’t care how far away they are going to park away from the building. They don’t care what seat they are going to get in. They just want….”

Chris Rosebrough, “Weird so she is likening Jesus here to a Hillsong Megachurch pastor and her experience at Hillsong the Megachurch in Sydney. That is creepy….”

Christine Caine, “They just want to get there and listen to Jesus. So Jesus begins to teach. Now the disciples are already freaking out. Because they know when this guy starts talking that he doesn’t stop and they are thinking you know we have never really understood much of any of the other parables he has ever talked about so we need to tell him that the Jerusalem food courts are going to close down because we are hungry and this is what leaders often do.

When they have a problem and they are hungry they go to the lead leader and they say it is the people’s fault. The people are hungry. Nowhere in the text does it say the people are hungry. But we know that the disciples have not yet eaten. So they go and blame the people for what they really want.

Chris Rosebrough, “Isn’t it weird that she is trying to
turn this into some kind of a leadership fable thing. Weird….”

Christine Caine, “They want Jesus to be quiet so that they can go and eat and so they say the people are really hungry and so this is what Jesus does. Because every time he is getting ready to do a miracle he prepares to do a miracle he starts right here. He says, ‘Well you give them something to eat.’ And they sit there and they think like many of us.

We go to Jesus with a prayer request and we pray about something and we don’t realise that we are the answer to our own prayer. So Jesus says, ‘You do something about it.’ Now what we think he has said is why can’t you do anything about it? We obviously misheard him and we begin to give him a list of reasons of why we can’t. The disciples start saying, ‘This is going to take eight months of a man’s salary. We don’t have enough food.’ My mother didn’t pack an extra lunch for five thousand people. There is no way that we are going to be able to feed them and so they begin to give Jesus a list of why not. So often we do that. I remember when we had a sense Nick and I to start the A21 campaign. Now we were living in Australia….

Chris Rosebrough, “Now notice I mean that was just a seem less transition from the text to herself. This text has nothing to do with her and her husband and their A21 network or anything like that. Nothing whatsoever and there was a weird phrase she said just a few seconds ago about that you are the answer to your own prayer.

That is not what this text is about either. So now she is reading herself into this text. She is you know she has read it and now she is really not giving a coherent exegetical understanding of the text. So she has pulled out of the historical narrative and is talking about herself. This text has nothing to do with her or you know me or you in that sense….”

Christine Caine, “Now we were living in Australia. We had just had our second born. I was 41 years old and we already were travelling around the world and helping to build churches and we were the network pastors for the Hillsong Church and so we have a lot going on and I remember when there was this sense that ‘Christine I want you to do something about it. You do something about helping to rescue people from human trafficking….”

Chris Rosebrough, “So there was this sense. So apparently God the Holy Spirit speaks directly to her. See it is just like when Jesus asked the disciples or said you do something about the fact that there is nothing to eat. No it is not at all and why should I believe that God the Holy Spirit is speaking to Christine Caine or has spoken to Christine Caine – why? She is a pastor despite the fact that God’s word forbids her to be one.

Why would God the Holy Spirit inspire the biblical authors to make it clear that men are the ones who are to be pastors and then turn around and just ignore what he inspired the apostles to write and then turn around and then give this woman you know direct revelation and dreams and visions and stuff like that. That is not how God the Holy Spirit works. She does not obey God’s word. She does not listen to God’s word. She does not heed God’s word and claims to be receiving direct revelation from God. She is deceived and that is not how the Holy Spirit operates….”

Christine Caine, “I remember going to God. But God I can’t. But God I am a woman. But God I am 41. But God I have just had a newborn baby. But God I live in Sydney, Australia. Do you know how far that is from Europe and I could imagine God is heaven going you know I didn’t know she was a chick Gabriel. Did you know that she was a woman? Wow did anyone know Chris had a baby. Did we miss the shower? Did we miss the baby shower in heaven? I have got no idea and I am just – does anyone know where Australia is relative to Greece. Could someone bring me a GPS. Could someone Peter get me a map book.

You know God I don’t have a spare ten million dollars to run there. Well you know and God Greece is singlehandedly about to bankrupt the whole planet. You are welcome and so that is where you want us to start and I imagine God is in heaven, ‘Oh my God no I am God. I am having an accidental crisis – all three of me. I am having a crisis up here economically. What I am going to do? Did you all know that wall street was about to have a schizophrenic attack….”

Chris Rosebrough, “No I have idea what the – what you would call what it is we just heard. But it serves no true exegetical function. Okay because whose life is she exegeting? Her own and she is basically talking about her imagination and things like that. This is all part of deception. This has nothing to do with sound biblical exegeting of the biblical passage….”

Christine Caine, “I don’t know who Mr. Dale Jones is but he is down three points one day, up four points the next. I really don’t know what’s…but this is God. This is God who woke up one day – burped one earth oops look at what I did. That is God – He is still in control, whatever is happening politically, socially, morally, economically, personally. God is still on the throne. He is still sovereign.”

Chris Rosebrough, “Yeah and she is shouting all of this in conjunction with supposedly the fact that God directly told her to start some kind of a network.

Christine Caine, “He is still sovereign and He is still God. So I said, ‘But God, but God I can’t and God is kind of rolling His eyes going I never even asked you if you could or you couldn’t. It wasn’t a question. I said you give them something to eat. So then as God stops listening I love this with Jesus. He listens to them give their excuses why not and then in v38 He says….

Mark 6 v 38 (NIV – New International Version)
38 “How many loaves do you have?” he asked. “Go and see.”

It is almost like He didn’t even listen to their excuses why not? He says….

Mark 6 v 38 (NIV – New International Version)
38 “How many loaves do you have?” he asked. “Go and see.”

He sent them back into the crowd to see what they do have. Because the ingredients for a miracle are always in our midst. We always have the ingredients for a miracle. It is just that they are in seed form and we devalue the seed because it doesn’t look like the harvest and so we have nothing to work with….”

Chris Rosebrough, “Where in The Bible does it say that all of the ingredients we need for a miracle are in our midst and they are in seed form? What passage of The Bible says that? Answer not one. Especially Mark 6 – Mark 6 teaches nothing of the sort. She is inserting things into the biblical text that are not there. In a narcissistic way of course. But we continue….”

Christine Caine, “But Jesus cannot multiply what we do not recognize. So he says, ‘Go and have a look.’ (Mark 6 v 38)”

Chris Rosebrough, “Where in The Bible does it say Jesus cannot multiply what we do not recognize? What passage of scripture says that? Not one. There isn’t a single passage of scripture that says this nonsense. She is making it up and inserting it into the text.

Now let me give you by way of contrast what Dr. Paul Kretzmann Commentary. It is a popular commentary written on a lay level. What he wrote about this text and let’s just do a little comparative work as we listen the sermon. From the feeding of the five thousand from Dr. Paul Kretzmann commentary Mark 6 v 33-44 and you will notice that this is written in the King James you know this is key to the King James Bible. Here is what it says….

Kretzmanns Popular Commentary

v33 And the people saw them departing, and many knew Him, and ran afoot thither out of all the cities, and out went them, and came together unto Him (unto Jesus).
v34. And Jesus, when He came out, saw much people, and was moved with compassion toward them, because they were as sheep not having a shepherd. And He began to teach them many things. [Now here is the commentary part]

Jesus actually managed to get away in a boat alone with His disciples; but His embarking was nevertheless witnessed by some people, and His identity was all too well known in the district, probably the neighbourhood of Bethsaida. Besides, they noted and drew correct conclusions as to the course which they were taking in their boat, and the part of the country toward which they were heading.

And the news was rapidly passed along the line. While Jesus, therefore, was slowly sailing across the sea, the multitude, swelled by additional inquisitive people from the cities on the northwest shore, made the trip around the north side of the lake afoot, a distance of some ten miles. They walked very rapidly; they ran together, and came ahead of them; and they beat them to their destination.

Curiosity, for the most part; what an immense factor in the destiny of individuals and of the nations! And so it happened that when Jesus went out of the ship, He saw a great multitude gathered together awaiting Him. He did not stop to analyze the motives that might have prompted these people to come out into the uninhabited country; His Saviour’s heart felt only the deepest pity for them. They were as sheep without shepherds. In all the synagogues of Galilee there were rabbis and scribes, but the food which they supplied to their congregations was a diluted pap and treacle of the matter which the Jerusalem schools were teaching the young theologians.

Chris Rosebrough, “So Jesus he again the verse talks about the fact that they were sheep without a shepherd and so Jesus Kretzmann keys in on the fact that they are getting pap and pablum from the Pharisaical rabbis and Jesus has compassion on them. And what is he going to do? He is going to teach them….”

Kretzmanns Popular Commentary

So the people were in a state of greatest spiritual neglect. And so the great friend of sinners forgot His own weariness, His urgent need of rest, and He began a long sermon to them and He taught them many things that pertained to their salvation. So Jesus dives right in and preaches a sermon to them. Okay teaching them many things. Next okay this next section is the testing of the disciples.

The Testing of The Disciples

v35. And when the day was now far spent, His disciples came unto Him and said, This is a desert place, and now the time is far passed. v36. Send them away that they may go into the country round about and into the villages and buy themselves bread; for they have nothing to eat. v37. He answered and said unto them, Give ye them to eat. (You give them something to eat)

And they say unto Him, Shall we go and buy two hundred pennyworth of bread, and give them to eat? v38. He saith unto them, How many loaves have ye? Go and see. And when they knew, they say, Five, and two fishes. In this story, as in many others, the Holy Spirit has permitted the evangelist to record such parts of the conversation as he remembered.

The hour had advanced very far, it was late in the day, when the disciples thought it their duty to interfere and to remind the Master of the necessity of taking care of the body also. There is a certain amount of impatience contained in the address to Jesus: The place is uninhabited, and the hour is advanced. He should dismiss them; they could go to the farmhouses and the little villages situated within a radius of a few miles and buy themselves something to eat. Jesus takes the opportunity of testing their trust in His ability to help in this emergency. He urges them to take care of the unbidden guests; by skilful questioning He brings out the fact that they have been figuring the number of loaves that might be bought for two hundred denarii (between thirty-three and thirty-four dollars), that they have found the provisions on hand to amount to five loaves of bread and two fish. The concern of the disciples at the inquiry of Jesus is illuminating as showing the weakness of their faith.

Chris Rosebrough, “So what is going on here? Jesus is testing their faith – their trust in Him. This is all from a good proper exegesis of this passage. So then we get to v39. The feeding of the five thousand….”

The feeding: v39. And so He commanded them to make all sit down by companies upon the green grass. v40. And they sat down in ranks, by hundreds and by fifties. v41. And when He had taken the five loaves and the two fishes, He Looked up to heaven, and blessed, and broke the loaves, and gave them to His disciples to set before them; and the two fishes divided He among them all.

v42. And. they did. all eat and were filled. v43. And they took up twelve baskets full of the fragments, and of the fishes. v44. And they that did eat of the loaves were about five thousand men. Now nothing could be more expressive than the contrast afforded here between the helpless puttering of the disciples and the cool, majestic bearing of Christ in taking charge of the situation.

He had the disciples give orders that all should recline on the grass in orderly groups, for just at this place there was a meadow near the shore of the lake. And they sat down in groups as in garden squares, as orderly as Rowers planted in rows a fine bit of vivid description.

Then Jesus, taking the five loaves and the two fishes, and having looked up to heaven, spoke the blessing upon the food. Note: He broke the bread and passed it on for distribution; He divided the fishes and had them taken to all in a similar way; and under His hands the amount of food grew. The miracle is mentioned by all four evangelists, and was one that could not be counterfeited, a secret supply being out of the question. It is a full proof for the divinity of Christ.

All ate, and all had enough to eat. And not only that: when the fragments were gathered into the large carrying baskets used by the people of Palestine, twelve of these were filled. And the number of those that had eaten is expressly stated, it being so easy to count them as they sat in groups: five thousand men, without women and children.

Chris Rosebrough, “So there you go. Who is this text about? It is about Jesus. What does this miracle prove? The divinity of Jesus. It is a true miracle and it harkens back to the days when the children of Israel were in another wilderness place. Wondering in the wilderness on their way to the promised land and God fed them manner from heaven.

Here Jesus feeds them bread by multiplying loaves and fishes. This is a miracle that points people to the fact that Jesus is the Messiah and so Jesus in this text tests the faith of the disciples and their trust in Him and you can already see things are not good. The disciples are waffling in their faith. But Jesus calmly majestically in a godly fashion because that is who He is – takes control of the situation and performs a miracle that shows that He is the Messiah and that He is none other than God in human flesh and that is the right way of preaching a text like this.

But well let’s just put this way. Christine Caine number one shouldn’t be preaching. Number two wouldn’t know how to preach this way if her life depended on it. Because she is not about preaching about Jesus. She is really about preaching about herself. We continue….”

Christine Caine, “He sends them to the crowd to have a look because the ingredients are in there. Now they go around looking. Now the text has told us in v38 that day there were five thousand men counted. Because in that time in history that is how you counted. You counted according to the men. But theologians and historians would say if you accurately counted women and children and the other gospels record besides women and children.

If you include women and children which I love to do. I am a woman. I was a child. So if you include those they say it would not be unrealistic to say there was at least fifteen thousand people on that mountain side. So they go in and begin to look amongst fifteen thousand people and one little boy gives his five loaves, his five pieces of Ezekiel bread, his two little anchovies that is all he has. He gives it out.

Do you think in a crowd of fifteen thousand that there was only one little boy with a packed lunch? Oh I guarantee there were more packed lunches that day. But this is what happens and it happens to us in church every week and it happens to us in life and that we see the magnitude of the problem that the disciples went around the crowd and they said, ‘anyone got a lunch?’ So we have got to feed fifteen thousand people. Jesus isn’t going to stop until we feed everyone and there is a crowd of fifteen thousand. Who has got a spare lunch for fifteen thousand?

What we do is we look at the enormity and the magnitude of the problem and we think because I can’t do everything. I will do nothing. Instead of the one thing that would activate something. Jesus never asks us to do everything….”

Chris Rosebrough, “What this has nothing to do with Jesus asking you to do anything. Jesus didn’t ask you about the loaves and fishes. Jesus isn’t asking you to do anything in this passage. Except for believe that He is the Messiah and trust in Him for the forgiveness of your sins. What are you talking about?”

Christine Caine, “Every week when our pastor stands up and tells us to bring the tithe into the storehouse. He is not asking any one person to do everything….”

Chris Rosebrough, “This text isn’t about tithing. What are you talking about?

Christine Caine, “But God is commanding all of us to do the one thing that we can all do which is bring our tithe into the storehouse. When we have a need….”

Chris Rosebrough, “Yeah those Hillsong folks sure do seem to be about money don’t they as well as the megachurch pastors like Life Church Dot TV hmm weird huh?”

Christine Caine, “We are not asked to do everything. When it came to helping to rescue twenty seven million slaves God wasn’t asking us to do it all. But he said what is the one thing that you do have and if you give me that one thing I will be able to do something absolutely miraculous with it Christine. But I need the one thing. So that little boy gave it.

Now did you know notice who gave the ingredients for a miracle that I am talking about today. It is quite fascinating to me that it was the little boy that was uncounted that provided the ingredients for the miracle that counted. The text tells us that five thousand men counted that day. So a little boy who was not….”

Chris Rosebrough, “Now here is the weird part.
Let me read the text again from the ESV. Okay….

Mark 6 v 33-34 (ESV – English Standard Version)
33 Now many saw them going and recognized them, and they ran there on foot from all the towns and got there ahead of them. 34 When he went ashore he saw a great crowd,

Now pay attention who gives up their lunch? Okay

Mark 6 v 34-40 (ESV – English Standard Version)
34….and he had compassion on them, because they were like sheep without a shepherd. And he began to teach them many things.

35 And when it grew late, his disciples came to him and said, “This is a desolate place, and the hour is now late. 36 Send them away to go into the surrounding countryside and villages and buy themselves something to eat.” 37 But he answered them, “You give them something to eat.” And they said to him, “Shall we go and buy two hundred denarii worth of bread and give it to them to eat?” 38 And he said to them, “How many loaves do you have? Go and see.” And when they had found out, they said, “Five, and two fish.” 39 Then he commanded them all to sit down in groups on the green grass. 40 So they sat down in groups, by hundreds and by fifties.

Now notice here again I know that this miracle occurs in all four gospels. But she didn’t read from this text that a little boy gave up his lunch. Because this particular telling of the story of the feeding of the five thousand doesn’t say anything about a little boy does it? No it doesn’t. Okay we continue.

Christine Caine, “So a little boy who was not counted and the thing that I discovered church is that it is always the ones that everybody else discounts. It is the ones that everyone else thinks doesn’t count. It is the ones that everything else thinks your life will never amount to anything. You are not educated enough. You are not talented enough. You are not gifted enough.

You are not smart enough. You are not resourced enough. Everyone else discounts us. You are not a celebrity enough. You don’t know the right people. Jesus says, ‘I might just be able to use that person. That everybody else is discounted. The one that society thinks doesn’t count. Because I know that I will get glory from that life. Because everyone will know that they could never have done it in their life.’ God always takes the ones that everyone else discounts. You know who packed his lunch that day. I promise you if you know anything about society this time – it was not his father. His mother packed his lunch. Do you think when that woman got up that day and packed some anchovies and some Ezekiel bread she thought she was doing anything that was world changing….”

Chris Rosebrough, “Again I just find it weird that she is making a huge point here. But the text she read doesn’t say anything about a little boy.
She stuck it in there. Weird….”

Christine Caine, “Do you think when that woman got up that day and packed some anchovies and some Ezekiel bread she thought she was doing anything that was world changing yet she was packing the ingredients for a miracle in that little boys lunch that I would talking about two thousand years later. I don’t know every day when you are driving your kids to school.

You perhaps could be home schooling your kids. You could be the cool house where all the kids come over after school and you are speaking life instead of death over those young people. Often when you think what you are doing is insignificant. Your job doesn’t matter. Your life doesn’t matter. I want you to know that everything you do, everything you say, everything you think contains the ingredients of a miracle that can change generations. Don’t devalue the smallness of the seed that you have….”

Chris Rosebrough, “This text doesn’t say that at all. She is literally sticking a theology into this passage that isn’t there. She is making this passage teach something that it doesn’t teach. This is classic eisegetical Bible twisting. Sticking stuff into a biblical text that isn’t there….”

Christine Caine, “Don’t devalue the smallness of the seed that you have. Don’t ever devalue it and so we start and then what do they do? They bring it to Jesus. Now could you imagine their frustration when they brought that to Jesus. Five loaves…I could imagine especially Peter. ‘You see Jesus I told you these people are really stingy.’

We should have sent them to the mall. Because Jesus if you did what we said everyone wouldn’t be here hungry anymore. Because now Jesus it is impossible. Now Jesus all you have got is five loaves and two fish. Why didn’t you do what we said? And how often are we like that with God? We bring the small thing to him when the situation is impossible and we think the impossibility excludes God from having any ability to do anything.”

Chris Rosebrough, “What are you talking about?
This text doesn’t say any of that….”

Christine Caine, “But God does not even turn up until it is impossible. You don’t need God while it is still possible. While you are smart enough. While you are resourced enough. While you are gifted enough. While you are talented enough. Why do you need God? In fact for many of the things that we ask the LORD’s help for. The things that we say I want a miracle for. They are not miracle issues. They are management issues. Most of us say Jesus you know I need a financial miracle. No honey you just to stop spending more than you earn. Very simple that is it and then God can turn up for the financial miracle. Jesus I need a health miracle. No you just need to stop eating the krispy kremes and get on the treadmill and you know what? Now it is very quiet. So a lot of what we are asking miracles for, we are not even in the miracle zone yet. Because God says, ‘Oh no that is in the management zone. You can do that yourself. I am not even turning up until we need the miracle.’

Chris Rosebrough, “This text doesn’t teach anything about miracle zones or management zones or anything of the sort. This isn’t about some miracle that God wants to perform in your life or some task that Jesus is calling you to. It is not about that at all. This is a historical narrative that took place in a real place in time and this is about Jesus and Him feeding five thousand people miraculously and testing the faith – the shaky faith of His disciples.

This is not about some task that Jesus is calling you to at all. Or the miracle zone versus the management zone. This is nonsense….”

Christine Caine, “So impossible is where God starts. We think the impossibility of a circumstance disqualifies God from being able to do anything – when that is what makes Him God. God is not limited to our time and space continuum. God is supernatural. God turns up when everything else has been exhausted. I don’t know what your need might be today.

You might have a physical need, a financial need, an emotional need, a relational need and in the natural it seems like it is impossible. There is no way forward. I want you to know you are poised for a miracle today. That is when Jesus turns up. Impossible is where He begins….”

Chris Rosebrough, “This text doesn’t teach that. What are you talking about?”

Christine Caine, “Because what is impossible with man is possible with God. With God all things are possible and nothing is impossible with God. Nothing so He begins and do you see what he does next? They bring Him loaves and two fishes and The Bible says He gave thanks. Jesus gave thanks for what would never be enough. He began to bless what was not enough. How often do we instead of bless our not enough – curse our not enough…”

Chris Rosebrough, “Oh really so oh Jesus by way of example blessed the not enough. So that you need to bless the not enough in your life, so that then the miracle can happen in your life too. This nowhere in scripture does it promise that Jesus is going to multiply anything in your life to perform some kind of a miracle and you need to sit there and bless a not enough….”

Christine Caine, “I hate this house. I hate my boss. I hate my job. I can’t stand my marriage. My kids are just losers. It is amazing to me how when we are disillusioned or we are disappointed or we are discouraged because things haven’t worked out how we wanted them. We feel that God didn’t come through in our timing or God didn’t come through in the way we wanted Him to come through. We begin to murmur, grumble and complain and curse the very things that contain an ingredient for a miracle and God says….”

Chris Rosebrough, “Curse the things that contain an ingredient for a miracle. Where in The Bible does it say that you have the ingredients for a miracle sitting right there and you need to bless them so that a miracle can happen?”

Christine Caine, “You know what why don’t you begin to bless your not enough – instead of cursing? Do you know how your whole year would change – if you began to change your confession? Instead of going I hate this house. You could begin to just say you know what this might not be where we are ultimately going to end up living. But I thank God right now we have got a roof over our head.

This may not be the job that I want in the long term. But I thank God right now we have got some food on the table. Maybe my marriage isn’t where I want it to be. But I thank God right now that we are both working on this thing. Maybe my kids are not serving the Lord in the way that I am believing God that they will. But I thank God that the hound of heaven is chasing them down and they are going to end up back in the house of God and they are going to be serving God. How much would our lives change if we began to bless and not curse? Because we expect God to bless what we curse and Jesus began by blessing what was never going to be enough….”

Chris Rosebrough, “We expect God to bless what we curse. What are you talking about? This text has nothing to do with any of this. This is what is the phrase? Textual abuse. We are dealing with a major form of textual abuse going on here at the hands of Christine Caine….”

Christine Caine, “Jesus began by blessing what was never going to be enough, knowing that if you bring your not enough into the hands of a God who is more than enough. He will do such a miracle. He blessed it what was never going to be enough and then did you see what happened? The miracle of multiplication did not happen until He broke it. The miracle is in the breaking….”

Chris Rosebrough, “Now I am going to point something out here. It wasn’t that long ago. Probably less than two years ago that Robert Morris of the Blessed Life fame preached his Blessed Life sermon at Life Church Dot TV and his little stick that he does on this passage.

He claims that the loaves and fishes didn’t multiply until the disciples you know they Jesus gave them the food and told them to go and distribute it and they wouldn’t multiply until they had distributed almost everything that was in their baskets and as soon as their basket was empty it would fill up again. That was what he claimed which is a completely preposterous claim. But I say this just because to remind the folks at Life Church Dot TV about what Robert Morris did with this text and note the fact that Christine Caine is saying the exact opposite thing that Robert Morris said. That is absolutely fascinating….”

Christine Caine, “While Jesus kept breaking. The miracle kept multiplying. I don’t know if there is anyone else in the room besides me that knows what it is to be broken. I don’t know if anyone has ever had a broken heart. If anyone has ever come from a broken family. If anyone has ever had a broken body. If anyone has ever had broken finances. If anyone has had a broken relationships or a broken life and so often we think that brokenness disqualifies us from the purposes of God….”

Chris Rosebrough, “Yeah everybody does. Everybody experiences those things because that is well the fruit of our sin. This is what we face in this broken world because we are under a curse. Because we are born dead in trespasses in sins and at war with God. This is what happens to us all of us and yet she says, ‘I don’t know if this has ever happened to you.’ And you sit there, ‘Oh it has happened to me. Oh she is preaching…’ This is just a trick. Some kind of weird manipulation that is going on here.”

Christine Caine, “…..So often we think that brokenness disqualifies us from the purposes of God and from what it is that God wants us to do with our lives. We think well God can’t use me. I was abused…or God can’t use me…because I am divorced….”

Chris Rosebrough, “Now I am going to back this up a little bit. The reason why is because oh not only is this manipulation, it is interesting manipulation. Because here is the question I have for you. What is it with evangelicalism and their emphasis on being quote used unquote by God? Okay because it is the weirdest thing. I don’t quite get it.

You know the my only….I have to kind of speculate here….is that you this somehow quote being used by God unquote is some kind of subjective proof that they are okay with God. That somehow everything is alright. That you know God and them are okay and if God is not using you then oh no something is terribly wrong. There is sin in your life or something and maybe you are not even saved. That is what I am suspecting is going on here.

But that is not where I want to put the emphasis as I analyse this segment. I want to point something out here. Whether or not quote God uses you okay in a way that can somehow can give you affirmation that you are saved. The question is this is that since all of us not. There is not a single one of us is not qualified to be used by God. Not me, not you, not Christine Caine, not even the Pope.

Okay there is nobody who isn’t a sinner. We all be sinners big time and if God gave all of us what we deserve, we would all be in hell right now. Because every single one of us – all six point five or seven billion of us on this planet are all born dead in trespasses and sins and at war with God and if God gave us all what we deserve well would not only would God not use us.

He would just punish us all to death. So what on earth could we possibly do to make it so that God would quote use us? Answer there is nothing we could do. Okay so how does one go from being dead in trespasses in sins to being an instrument of God for the preaching of the gospel, for teaching the faith, the building up of the body of Christ for caring for others.
Okay because I am absolutely convinced that God does use people. But the emphasis on the using here is the weird thing to me. Okay God uses people. God has used people in my life. God used other people in your life. Okay you get what I am saying. So how do you go from dead in trespasses in sins and under the wrath of God to being in the grace of God?

The answer is this penitent faith and trust in Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. The law must be preached to sinners to strip them of their self-righteousness and show them that they stand condemned before God and then the gospel must be preached. The sweet good news that Christ has died for our sins.

The sweet good news that He can forgive somebody even as sinful as me – as sinful as you and that His death on the cross has propitiated the wrath of God in totality and is sufficient for our salvation. Right so penitent faith and trust in Christ it is God’s working in us to bring us to penitent faith in Him. By which He then humbles us, washes us, forgives us, sanctifies us, and makes us into instruments to be used for His purposes. I don’t have a problem with that.

But notice here how she talks about this and notice what is missing. She will talk about people not being worthy because they have committed this sin or that sin. Well yeah that does make somebody unworthy quote be used by God. But she doesn’t talk about the cross and the forgiveness of sins and repentance and faith in Christ for the forgiveness of sins or bearing fruit in keeping with that repentance and you know living out a sanctified Christian life.

She doesn’t talk about any of that. She skips over all the major doctrines and categories theologically. Repentance, faith, forgiveness, the propitiation won by Christ on the cross and the sanctifying work of the Spirit and just skips over all of that. You know kind of leapfrogged over it and you know doesn’t even mention it and gets right onto something else without mentioning the cross and you can’t do that in biblical Christianity. So I am going to back this up a little bit so you can the context. We continue….”

Christine Caine, “While Jesus kept breaking. The miracle kept multiplying. I don’t know if there is anyone else in the room besides me that knows what it is to be broken. I don’t know if anyone has ever had a broken heart. If anyone has ever come from a broken family. If anyone has ever had a broken body. If anyone has ever had broken finances. If anyone has had a broken relationships or a broken life and so often we think that brokenness disqualifies us from the purposes of God….”

Chris Rosebrough, “Our sin does….”

Christine Caine, “And from what it is that God wants to do with our lives.

Christine Caine, “…..So often we think that brokenness disqualifies us from the purposes of God and from what it is that God wants us to do with our lives. We think well God can’t use me. I was abused…or God can’t use me…because I am divorced….or God can’t use me because I committed just such great sins in my past and what we try to do through our shame and our guilt and our condemnation that the enemy heaps on us. We try to hide those broken places. We try to hide those scars. We try to hide it all and think you know what if I could just wear some sort of mask and just get through this thing called life….”

Chris Rosebrough, “Isn’t the solution to all of that forgiveness of sins through the shed blood of Christ? Why aren’t you talking about that?”

Christine Caine, “I wish God could use me. But He can’t because I am so broken. But I want to tell you today that it is from those broken places that you are qualified to be used by God. It is not from my strengths that God is using me….”

Chris Rosebrough, “Oh that is blasphemy. No it is not from those broken places that you are qualified to be used by God. That is absolutely blasphemous. It is through the broken body of Jesus Christ bleeding on the cross for your sins that you are qualified to be used of God. What she just spoke is utter blasphemy.

What I just said is the truth. She is preaching a completely cross-less, repentance-less, forgiveness-less Christianity and saying that it is because of your brokenness in your sinful condition that is what makes you worthy to be used by God. No it doesn’t. That is what makes you worthy of hell. What is she is preaching is rank heresy. We continue….”

Christine Caine, “It is not from my strengths that God is using me to make a difference in the world. It is from those broken places. It was the child that was left in a hospital unnamed and unwanted when I was born. The girl that was sexually abused for twelve years at the hands of four men. The girl that grew up in the poorest local government area in my state in Australia where I grew up.

The marginalised ethnic migrant, second generation Greek girl – so marginalised because of my ethnicity and my gender. It is that girl that God took all those broken pieces adoption and abuse and poverty and said you know what Christine, what happened to you isn’t good and the enemy tried to steal, kill and destroy your life.

But if you allow me to I will take all those broken fragments of your life and I will weave them together and I will work together for good – the things that the enemy meant for evil and God has woven them all together and God has taken an unnamed unwanted abused adopted girl and not only rescued me. But He is now using me to rescue others that are bound in sex slavery….”

Chris Rosebrough, “And what an earth does that have to do with Jesus feeding of the five thousand? Not one thing….”

Christine Caine, “It would be just like God. I feel like Joseph today. Where I stand in front of…he stood in front of his brothers and he said, ‘You know what you meant this as evil against me. But God meant it for this very purpose to save many people alive…’ and church I want to tell you the thing that you thought was going to kill you. The thing that you thought you would never recover from.

God could never use you in business again, He could never use you relationally again. That is the very thing that God wants to turn around and redeem for His glory. The enemy wants you to think it is all over. But let me tell you this. Some of you have been struggling. You have been fighting. You have had a really hard year. But I want to remind you that the devil on his best day, didn’t take you out on your worst day. You are still here. You are still fighting. There is still life. There is still a future….”

Chris Rosebrough, “What are you talking about? The devil took us all out. Literally all of us, took us all out in the garden of Eden. We were all born dead in trespasses in sins and under the power of the devil. Again this is just absolutely blasphemous. Not only should she not be preaching. Because she is a woman. She is preaching rank heresy and false doctrine and twisting God’s word….”

Christine Caine, “There is still a future while you are still breathing and God can redeem every broken piece of your past and He can help to give someone else a future through your past…..”

Chris Rosebrough, “Notice we are talking about redemption now. God can redeem every broken piece of your past. How about Christ can redeem you? You have been redeemed by the shed blood of Christ on the cross. Big difference. We continue….”

Christine Caine, “So Jesus broke it and the scripture tells us that while He broke it, He continued to multiply and then I love this part of the text. It says….

Mark 6 v 42 (NIV – New International Version)
42 And they all ate and were satisfied.

Christine Caine, “And normally we end here and then we come back next week to church and then we think, ‘awesome I was filled last week. Jesus I need you to fill me again. But in the day and hour which we live in the church it is not enough just to live miracle to miracle. It is not enough. Because it is what happens between the miracles that is really going to determine the strength of our Christian walk in the day and the age in which we live….”

Chris Rosebrough, “This is nonsense. It is not enough to live miracle to miracle to what you do between the miracles. Where are you getting any of this from God’s word? None of this is taught there. This is just gobbledygook….”

Christine Caine, “So Jesus finishes that miracle and then He says to the disciples, “I want you to go and gather twelve basketfuls which is like a sack over your shoulder of the broken pieces. There was exactly twelve basketfuls left over. It is not an accident. Twelve basketfuls – twelve disciples. So He said, “I want you to go and get a basketful each and then The Bible tells us that He immediately sent them into a storm….”

Chris Rosebrough, “I want you to go and get a basketful each? That is not what the text says. Okay let’s do this again. Hang on a second here. Mark 6. By the way the little detail about the little boy. The only gospel that appears in is in The Gospel of John. The synoptic gospels do not have that little detail. Now I want to read the end of this story so you can…she is totally mangling the end of the story.

Mark 6 v 40 (ESV – English Standard Version)
40 So they sat down in groups, by hundreds and by fifties.

So Mark 6 v 41 now….

Mark 6 v 41-42 (ESV – English Standard Version)
41 And taking the five loaves and the two fish he looked up to heaven and said a blessing and broke the loaves and gave them to the disciples to set before the people. And he divided the two fish among them all. 42 And they all ate and were satisfied.

And here is what v43 says. It doesn’t say and Jesus said, ‘Go collect twelve baskets full at all.’ That is not what it says. But that is what she says it says. But here is what the text says….

Mark 6 v 43 (ESV – English Standard Version)
43 And they took up twelve baskets full of broken pieces and of the fish. 44 And those who ate the loaves were five thousand men.

So it doesn’t say Jesus sent them out to collect twelve baskets. It just says that they happened to collect afterwards you know the leftovers and the leftovers was twelve basketfuls and I am going to back this up again. So you can hear what she is doing with this. She is literally doing violence to this text. Textual abuse….”

Christine Caine, “So Jesus finishes that miracle and then He says to the disciples, “I want you to go and gather twelve basketfuls which is like a sack over your shoulder of the broken pieces. There was exactly twelve basketfuls left over. It is not an accident. Twelve basketfuls – twelve disciples. So He said, “I want you to go and get a basketful each….”

Chris Rosebrough, “No He didn’t….”

Christine Caine, “….and then The Bible tells us that He immediately sent them into a storm. This is an omniscient God. He knew where He was sending them. Not all storms are from the devil. Sometimes God allows us to go into a storm because He wants to reveal to us what is already inside of us….”

Chris Rosebrough, “Yeah notice here they actually went into a – onto the real sea of Galilee and they experienced a real storm. Okay so now she has allegorized the storm into about you know some storm that God is sending you into in your life. Now you get what I am saying here. I mean this is just nonsense….”

Christine Caine, “We often don’t know. We think we believe one thing and it is a storm in life that would reveal to us what we really believe and so what happened at this part of the gospels. Jesus this is the first mass miracle that Jesus had done. Up until now he is doing one on one and the disciples still don’t know the identity of Jesus – as the Christ – as the Messiah.

They know Him as a miracle worker. They know Him as a teacher. They know Him as a prophet. But they don’t know Him as Jesus the Christ – the Son of God. The anointed one – the Messiah and it is interesting to me that you can sit in church week after week and you can sit in the midst of miracles of God and what is happening through this ministry and through this church across the world is nothing short of a modern day sign and wonder and miracle. Nothing short of that….

Chris Rosebrough, “Really so the growth of Life Church Dot TV as a result of the false twisting and telling people what they want to hear – false Bible teaching and twisting of Craig Groeschel and him telling scratching itching ears. That is somehow a modern sign and miracle. Close to you know Jesus walking on the water or the feeding of the five thousand. Good night….”

Christine Caine, “But you can be in the midst of all of that and you can see the miracles of God. Hundreds of millions of YouVersions being downloaded and campuses exploding all around the place through this wonderful ministry and you can see that influence and you can be sitting in it and you can see the miracle.

You can partake of the miracle and you can know all about the miracles of God and not have yet met the God of the miracles and so Jesus is saying, ‘It is not enough that you just know about my works and my acts. You have got to know Me and I want to know if you know Me.’ So He sends them into a storm….”

Chris Rosebrough, “You know by the way in The Gospel of John I mean with the calling of the apostle Andrew. The disciple Andrew he was a disciple before he was an apostle. Already then the disciples knew then Jesus was the Messiah. You know so this point of hers doesn’t make any sense when you take a look at all of the gospels together….”

Christine Caine, “So He sends them into a storm. It is the best way to find that out and He goes up to a mountain to pray and you think why well because now His ministry is about to blow up. From this point on in the text Jesus ministry through the gospels is going to blow up. Because the ingredients of the miracle are ten thousand people and they are going to go home to their villages and tell everybody about what He just did….”

Chris Rosebrough, “Uh no again actually no she hasn’t done her homework. Okay now I told you that John 6 is the only cross reference where we learn about the little boy. Okay so in John 6 we have John’s account here of this same miracle on the same day. Okay and so let me consider and let me continue reading. I will read John 6 and I will start at v11.

John 6 v 11-14 (ESV – English Standard Version)
11 Jesus then took the loaves, and when he had given thanks, he distributed them to those who were seated. So also the fish, as much as they wanted. 12 And when they had eaten their fill, he told his disciples, “Gather up the leftover fragments, that nothing may be lost.” 13 So they gathered them up and filled twelve baskets with fragments from the five barley loaves left by those who had eaten. 14 When the people saw the sign that he had done, they said, “This is indeed the Prophet who is to come into the world!”

So Christine Caine says, ‘Oh Jesus ministry blows up from here…’ as if it goes into megachurch mode. No it doesn’t. Let me continue reading….

John 6 v 15-21 (ESV – English Standard Version)
15 Perceiving then that they were about to come and take him by force to make him king, Jesus withdrew again to the mountain by himself. 16 When evening came, his disciples went down to the sea, 17 got into a boat, and started across the sea to Capernaum. It was now dark, and Jesus had not yet come to them. 18 The sea became rough because a strong wind was blowing. 19 When they had rowed about three or four miles, they saw Jesus walking on the sea and coming near the boat, and they were frightened. 20 But he said to them, “It is I; do not be afraid.” 21 Then they were glad to take him into the boat, and immediately the boat was at the land to which they were going.

Okay so clearly we are dealing with the same events. Right well let’s continue reading and find out if Jesus ministry just blows up like the way Christine Caine said right.

John 6 v 22-41 (ESV – English Standard Version)
22 On the next day the crowd that remained on the other side of the sea saw that there had been only one boat there, and that Jesus had not entered the boat with his disciples, but that his disciples had gone away alone. 23 Other boats from Tiberias came near the place where they had eaten the bread after the Lord had given thanks. 24 So when the crowd saw that Jesus was not there, nor his disciples, they themselves got into the boats and went to Capernaum, seeking Jesus.

25 When they found him on the other side of the sea, they said to him, “Rabbi, when did you come here?” 26 Jesus answered them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, you are seeking me, not because you saw signs, but because you ate your fill of the loaves. 27 Do not work for the food that perishes, but for the food that endures to eternal life, which the Son of Man will give to you. For on him God the Father has set his seal.” 28 Then they said to him, “What must we do, to be doing the works of God?”29 Jesus answered them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in him whom he has sent.” 30 So they said to him, “Then what sign do you do, that we may see and believe you? What work do you perform? 31 Our fathers ate the manna in the wilderness; as it is written, ‘He gave them bread from heaven to eat.’” 32 Jesus then said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, it was not Moses who gave you the bread from heaven, but my Father gives you the true bread from heaven. 33 For the bread of God is he who comes down from heaven and gives life to the world.” 34 They said to him, “Sir, give us this bread always.”

35 Jesus said to them, “I am the bread of life; whoever comes to me shall not hunger, and whoever believes in me shall never thirst. 36 But I said to you that you have seen me and yet do not believe.37 All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never cast out. 38 For I have come down from heaven, not to do my own will but the will of him who sent me. 39 And this is the will of him who sent me, that I should lose nothing of all that he has given me, but raise it up on the last day. 40 For this is the will of my Father, that everyone who looks on the Son and believes in him should have eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day. 41 So the Jews grumbled about him, because he said, “I am the bread that came down from heaven.”

Okay they are upset because they want more of…they want Jesus to be the bread king. To give them bread always right and so Jesus says, ‘Hey I am the bread of life…’ and they are like, ‘come on Jesus…’

John 6 v 42 (ESV – English Standard Version)
42 They said, “Is not this Jesus, the son of Joseph, whose father and mother we know? How does he now say, ‘I have come down from heaven’?”

So now they don’t even believe in Him even after
He fed them yet the day yesterday right.

John 6 v 43-70 (ESV – English Standard Version)
43 Jesus answered them, “Do not grumble among yourselves. 44 No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him. And I will raise him up on the last day. 45 It is written in the Prophets, ‘And they will all be taught by God.’ Everyone who has heard and learned from the Father comes to me— 46 not that anyone has seen the Father except he who is from God; he has seen the Father. 47 Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever believes has eternal life. 48 I am the bread of life. 49 Your fathers ate the manna in the wilderness, and they died. 50 This is the bread that comes down from heaven, so that one may eat of it and not die. 51 I am the living bread that came down from heaven. If anyone eats of this bread, he will live forever. And the bread that I will give for the life of the world is my flesh.”

52 The Jews then disputed among themselves, saying, “How can this man give us his flesh to eat?”53 So Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you. 54 Whoever feeds on my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day. 55 For my flesh is true food, and my blood is true drink.56 Whoever feeds on my flesh and drinks my blood abides in me, and I in him. 57 As the living Father sent me, and I live because of the Father, so whoever feeds on me, he also will live because of me.58 This is the bread that came down from heaven, not like the bread the fathers ate, and died. Whoever feeds on this bread will live forever.” 59 Jesus said these things in the synagogue, as he taught at Capernaum.

60 When many of his disciples heard it, they said, “This is a hard saying; who can listen to it?” 61 But Jesus, knowing in himself that his disciples were grumbling about this, said to them, “Do you take offense at this? 62 Then what if you were to see the Son of Man ascending to where he was before? 63 It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh is no help at all. The words that I have spoken to you are spirit and life. 64 But there are some of you who do not believe.” (For Jesus knew from the beginning who those were who did not believe, and who it was who would betray him.) 65 And he said, “This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless it is granted him by the Father.” 66 After this many of his disciples turned back and no longer walked with him.

So immediately after the feeding of the five thousand you have this discourse where Jesus gives them a tough saying. Unless you eat my flesh and drink my blood, you have no life in you right and you know….

John 6 v 65 (ESV – English Standard Version)
65 And he said, “This is why I told you that no
one can come to me unless it is granted him by the Father.”

No can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him and you know what happens to his disciples? They leave.

John 6 v 66-70 (ESV – English Standard Version)
66 After this many of his disciples turned back and no longer walked with him.
67 So Jesus said to the Twelve, “Do you want to go away as well?” 68 Simon Peter answered him, “Lord, to whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life. 69 and we have believed, and have come to know, that you are the Holy One of God.” 70 Jesus answered them, “Did I not choose you, the Twelve? And yet one of you is a devil.”

So Christine Caine doesn’t know her Bible. She is preaching. She shouldn’t be and she is teaching. She shouldn’t be. But she is teaching that Jesus ministry takes off kind of like you know like megachurch style like Hillsong after the feeding of the five thousand and that is a flat out historical falsehood. That is not what happens after the feeding of the five thousand. After the feeding of the five thousand Jesus preaches some tough doctrine and it results in Jesus church shrinking to the size of twelve. Yeah how big was Jesus church on the day when He was crucified. How many people were there – rooting for Him, telling Pontus Pilate not to crucify Jesus? Uh huh we continue….

Christine Caine, “So He sends them into a storm. It is the best way to find that out and He goes up to a mountain to pray and you think why well because now His ministry is about to blow up. From this point on in the text Jesus ministry through the gospels is going to blow up. Because the ingredients of the miracle are ten thousand people and they are going to go home to their villages and tell everybody about what He just did and if your ministry is about to blow up to that extent.

You better get on your face on a mountain before God and start praying. So He is praying and The Bible says now it is about the fourth watch of the night which takes to us to about three o’ clock in the morning. So at three o’ clock in the morning He is praying. Then He looks out and the disciples. The scripture says that the storm started straining at the oars which means they are freaking out massively.

So they are freaking out. It is dark. They are wondering where Jesus is. I don’t know if you have ever been like that. You could have been in an awesome church meeting and then just hours later you are wondering why has God forsaken me? Why am I out in this storm? Why am I here? Now it is Wednesday and Sunday pastor Craig said everything was going to be awesome and now it is Wednesday and look at my marriage and look at my finances and look at my health and look at my children and I am in this storm and you are wondering where God is and if I don’t if anyone else besides me has ever been there.

Where are you God? Where are you? It seems so dark and it seems so dangerous and the interesting thing is Jesus could see them. He could see. He knows where you are right at this moment, wherever you are listening to this. He knows exactly what is going on and this is the great thing. It is a perk of being God. He can be with you right in the middle of that storm while He is coming to you to deliver you from the storm.

That is what happens when you are God and so what they didn’t realise was that He had asked them to take the broken pieces with them into the boat and essentially what he was….did you ever wonder why broken pieces – why scraps – why fragments? Why couldn’t He do the miracle again on the other side? Why fish heads? Why fish bones? Why bread crumbs? Because this was what Jesus was essentially saying to them, “I want each of you to take evidence of this miracle today into the storm of tomorrow.” Because I want you to remember that the same God that just….

Chris Rosebrough, “What Jesus nowhere says that, you just gave Jesus words and stuck them in His mouth that He never once spoke. This is nonsense….”

Christine Caine, “This was what Jesus was essentially saying to them, “I want each of you to take evidence of this miracle today into the storm of tomorrow. Because I want you to remember that the same God that just did that miracle for you on the mountain – is the same God that is going to be with you in this boat. It is the same God that is going to take you to the other side.

You were never gifted. You were never talented. You were never smart enough to do this in your own strength anyway. You have actually never had anything more than five loaves and two fishes and the same God that did the miracle for you back then is the same God that will do the miracle for you in the middle of the storm. It doesn’t matter what is happening politically.

It doesn’t matter what is happening socially. It doesn’t matter what is happening economically. It doesn’t matter. What happens with us is the minute we come out of a miracle and we see a negative news report and we see something negative is happening in Wall Street or something negative is happening politically or we look at all the disasters happening around us. We begin to panic as if somehow God fell off the throne and God is saying, ‘When did ever think you had enough money in the first place? When did you ever think you had enough gifts in the first place?’ It always was God. It always will be God. It always was Christ alone. It always will be Christ alone. It doesn’t matter….

You know a lot of us we get good with now. We get confident with where we are now and we forget about back then and when the enemy comes to torment me. I don’t start telling him about oh I run this global anti human trafficking organisation now. I speak around the world now. Because this can all change. Governments can change. Policies and A21 can shut down.

People can stop inviting me. Now I don’t talk to him about now. That is not where my confidence is….I go back to then. That girl who was in hospital, unnamed and unwanted. The same God that kept me alive then is the same God that is with me now. That kid that was abused all those years. The same God that somehow protected me in the midst of all that. He was with me then. He is with me now….”

Chris Rosebrough, “Yeah the I want to point this all out. This is autobiography masquerading as Christian theology. This is not Christian theology. This is just her giving autobiography….”

Christine Caine, “The same kid that used to speak to twenty kids in the backside and nowhere in Australia. The same God that plucked me out of anonymity and obscurity then is the same God that is with me now. It always was Jesus. It always will be Jesus. Whatever is before me. It always was him and he is doing what he has always done. He is continuing to build his church.

He said, ‘I will be build my church and the gates of hell shall not prevail – against the church of the living God.’ Whatever happens economically, politically, morally, socially, environmentally. Jesus doing what he has always done. He is building his church and the gates of hell shall not prevail against the church of the living God ever. He is doing what he has always done.

And so he goes out to the disciples and they are freaking out and this is what happens when you get your eyes off your fragments off your broken pieces and you get your eyes on the wind and the waves. What happens is Jesus can come out to you. The same Jesus….”

Chris Rosebrough, “This is what happens when you get your eyes off your broken fragments and pieces from your last miracle. I seem to remember that one of the gospel writers I think it is Matthew gives us a little bit more to the story and tells us about Peter walking on the water at this point and his eyes were never on the broken fragments and the fish heads and the basket and the boat.

They were on Jesus and when they were off Jesus, he ended up sinking. Notice the emphasis is always taken away from Jesus. Our focus is always taken away from Christ in the way these people mangle God’s word. They make it about themselves. They make it about something they have done and now it is no longer keeping your eyes on Jesus. It is keeping your eyes on the broken fragment pieces and the fish heads and the baskets from the leftovers. Unbelievable….”

Christine Caine, “The same Jesus that was on the mountain with you doing miracles or the day before and you don’t even recognize him. Because Jesus uses the storms of life to reveal a different aspect of himself to us. They knew the Jesus that did the fish and loaves. They didn’t know the Jesus that walked on water. I don’t know what miracle you might need right now. But Jesus is coming in a new form and in a new way to do a new thing in your life.”

Chris Rosebrough, “Yeah this text doesn’t teach any of that. You are just.
This is all just smoke and mirrors….”

Christine Caine, “Don’t box Him back into what he used to do. In the way that He used to do it. Allow room for him to come in a different way to deliver you from this storm. You don’t need the Jesus that multiplies the fish and loaves when you are in a storm in the middle of an ocean….”

Chris Rosebrough, “What are you talking about? That is the same Jesus….”

Christine Caine, “You need a Jesus that walks on water. Don’t think that the very God that is coming to deliver you is the God that is coming to destroy you. He is actually coming to you in a different form. He gets in the boat and the disciples look at him and The Bible says he is disappointed not because they were scared in the storm. But because they had not understood the miracle of the loaves and fishes.

I wonder friend if you are someone that has been sitting in church for or today is your first day or perhaps weeks, months, years and you have known the God of you have known the miracles of God. You have seen signs and wonders and you have watched God do amazing things in your midst. Let’s never be a church that just knows the miracles of God. Let’s be a church that is intimately acquainted with the God of the miracles in Jesus name.”

Chris Rosebrough, “Oh man wow what a mess. Unbelievable – see that tells you about the level of biblical expertees on the part of the so called pastors of Hillsong. That should tell you something. She is a product of Brian Houston’s teaching and preaching and what she preaches is absolutely reprehensible and her mangling of scripture.

She learned that from somebody. She learned it from Brian Houston and she is not somebody who should be listened to as if she has a word to bring to us from God. Because she doesn’t. She twists God’s word and preaches herself and that is part and parcel of the major problem of you know what passes for preaching from churches like Hillsong and Life Church Dot TV and others. Pray that Christ brings His church to repentance for this nonsense.

Alright we are at the end of another edition of Fighting for the Faith. If you would like to email me regarding anything you have heard on this edition or any previous editions of Fighting for the Faith. You can do so my email address is talkback@fightingforthefaith.com or you can subscribe on Facebook http://www.facebook.com or you can follow me on Twitter. My name there is @piratechristian. Until tomorrow may God richly bless you in the grace and mercy won by Jesus Christ and His vicarious death on the cross for all of your sins amen.

 

Fighting for the Faith – Chris Rosebrough – Interview With Tanya Levin re: Her Exposure to Hillsong Church

[Below is a transcript taken from Chris Rosebrough’s radio show podcast Fighting For The Faith Radio podcast which was originally broadcast on Monday January 6th 2014, which you can subscribe to on iTunes. I highly recommend you do this if you want to develop discernment.]

You can watch Tanya Levin’s Interview > http://youtu.be/PuU-MlywCs8

Here is the video link for this transcript > http://youtu.be/MMk2ASGGqQs

Fighting for the Faith
Interview of Tanya Levin re: her expose of Hillsong

[Segment One – 00:14:53 – 00:17:39]

Introduction

Chris Rosebrough, “Let’s talk about what we are going to do on today’s episode of Fighting for the Faith. There is a theme by the way. There is a theological theme for today’s programme. But let’s just put it this way I spread the theological butter really thin. Okay really thin so if you are trying to figure out the theme I am not going to tell you. This will be one of those ones where you can try to figure out. It is not a popery episode. Although it might feel that way. Just want to say that.

We will switch gears after that and we will be doing a Steven Furtick update and this is kind of a weird one. Steven Furtick and Elevation church have put out a new spoken word song kind of thing that is kind of supposed to be super motivational and the name of it is I Will Fight and we will be listening to Steven Furtick’s latest audio inspirational Rocky Balboa type songish thing and then after that we will take a break.

When we come back from the break, we are going to be listening to an extended interview, and a portion of an extended interview done a few years ago from a gal who left Hillsong church in Sydney Australia and she has since written a book and the name of her book is People in Glass Houses and we are going to be listening to her. Her name is Tanya Levin and we will be listening to interview she did a couple of years ago after her book was published called People in Glass Houses and the reason we will be listening to her is because I want you to hear for yourself somebody who has been involved with Hillsong church in Sydney, Australia and has subsequently left.

Why they left, what was the problem, what were the things they were concerned about and in listening to her story and I don’t want to say testimony because in listening to her interview. It doesn’t sound like Tanya has remained in Christianity. I can’t tell for sure if she has you know joined up with a you know a different Christian church or left Christianity altogether I can’t tell. Clearly her time at Hillsong she considers it to have been toxic, abusive and that there are some significant problems there and I will be passing portions of her interview onto you.

So that you can hear for yourself from somebody who was involved in Hillsong, who became disillusioned with Hillsong and saw the light and left Hillsong and hear from her as to why she left and what the problems were and I think this is significant because her critiques, her problems that she is having with Hillsong sound a lot like the same kind of problems that we hear from people who have left Mars Hill. Mark Driscoll’s church or who have left Perry Noble’s church or who have left Steven Furtick’s church.

Same kind of syndrome, people who are she refers to them and funnily enough I use the same term. The walking wounded. Those who have been absolutely battered and beaten by abusive vision casting pastor types. You know in this case it is Brian Houston and of course this isn’t accidental. The reason why I wanted to throw this in there is because I think this piece is important for those people who are joining Fighting for the Faith listening audience as a result of seeing the video podcast regarding Carl Lance so that they can understand there is some deep problems with Hillsong and then speaking about Hillsong.

[Segment Two – 00:50:57 – 01:02:24]

Chris Rosebrough, “Alright we are back. Warning listening to Fighting for the Faith could cause you to become supremely dissatisfied with your celebrity pastor. Especially if they have anything to do with Hillsong, vision casting or anything like that….

Anyway moving along we have got to finish up here. We have got an update from Hillsong to end out hour number two which requires me to do this.

[Plays music]

“Hungry Like The Wolf”

In touch with the ground
I’m on the hunt I’m after you
Smell like I sound, I’m lost in a crowd
And I’m hungry like the wolf
Straddle the line in discord and rhyme
I’m on the hunt I’m after you
Mouth is alive with juices like wine
And I’m hungry like the wolf

That is right. Hungry Like The Wolf. That is our from Hillsong and we are going to be listening to a portion of an interview done a couple of years ago from a gal who spent quite a bit of time at Hillsong in Sydney, Australia. Her name is Tanya Levin and she ended up writing a book that you can purchase by the way at Amazon. The name of the book is People in Glass Houses and she is going to talk about her time and some of the history of Hillsong and what she considered to be the problems there. See if you can note some of the reoccurring themes that we talk about here at Fighting for the Faith. Despite the fact that this interview took place in August 2007. Here we go….

Tanya Levin, “And Hillsong was very much geared
towards money, recruitment, and fundraising….”

Chris Rosebrough, “That is cult behaviour by the way. Any organization that is geared towards money, recruitment and fundraising, that is one of the classic signs you are dealing with a cult mentality.

Interviewer, “I want to show a bit of Brian Houston.
This is from an Australian Story in 2005….

[plays clip]

Church congregation sings, “How great is our God, sing with me how great is….”

Brian Houston, “I really have this belief that church should be enjoyed and not endured. Sadly I think it is possible for church to be a very long hour. I want people to be able to be animated about their worship.

And I love walking into the 6:00pm service and then bam getting hit by the presence of God. It is cool. Tell someone next to it is cool…”

Interviewer, “And you write in the book that even today when hear Brian’s voice it makes you feel better. How does Brian do it for you?”

Tanya Levin, “That is funny when you go to Bible college apparently you learn that when you say tell the person next to you. It is just a way forward when the pastor has lost his thought train. So turn to the person next to you and say you look great. He is a very powerful speaker. His content is not very heavy. But…”

Chris Rosebrough, “Powerful speaker, lots of image and delivery. No substance is what she is talking about there. If you haven’t seen the Fighting for the Faith video blog episode yet you need to….”

Tanya Levin, “He is very charismatic and you know he is a voice of my childhood. He is a voice of you know leadership in my upbringing….so and you know he always sounds so happy and so pleased to be where he is and so proud of you that you are doing this thing with him. That you almost want to be a part of it all over again….”

Chris Rosebrough, “Okay so that is kind of her talking about you know the inside scoop and how it made her feel when she was a part of it. But she is not a part of it anymore. We continue with the interview….”

Interviewer, “It was 2002 and in fact it was a speech Brian made to the congregation and an important speech which really started your I think it is fair to say your path to disillusionment. Can you talk us through that?”

Tayna Levin, “I went to see pastor Brian talk about his father having been removed from ministry and he presented to talk about you know having to have confronted his father over a serious – over serious what he called a moral failure. These were serious allegations.”

Chris Rosebrough, “Now wait until you hear what the serious moral failure was. So this was going back in the history of Hillsong. Apparently it was planted by Brian Houston’s father and there was a moral failing on the part of Brian Houston’s father and it was discussed in a way that it wasn’t actually – the substance of that moral failing really wasn’t talked about much at Hillsong. Let me back this up and I want you to hear exactly what the moral failing of Brian Houston’s father was. Here we go….”

Tanya Levin, “Having to have confronted his father over a serious – over serious what he called a moral failure. These were allegations of sexual offences against teenage boys which was never actually named on the day. So this is a serious moral failure. He had to confront his father about it. His father had confessed. The national executive had then taken away his credentials. Investigated and taken away Houston senior’s credentials and that Brian Houston himself was crushed and he asked for the congregation to pray for his family, for his wife and his children and the congregation did. They stood up and they applauded him and that was the end of that speech….”

Interviewer, “There was no reference to the people that had been abused or whose lives had been damaged….”

Tanya Levin, “Absolutely no reference to the victims. There was no stance taken on child sexual assault or child abuse of any form or care for children. There was no standing up and saying, ‘Look we will not tolerate this in our congregation,” and in fact what it made me wonder was if this is how they treat these kinds of issues on the most public level that they have got. How are they treating them on smaller more in you know more private arenas?”

Chris Rosebrough, “Great question. If this is how they are going to handle a serious moral failing like sexually assaulting teenage boys and just kind of not talk about it openly and sweep it under the carpet and it all goes away – what are they doing with less offences? Great question Tayna – great question!”

Interviewer, “You raise a number of questions about Hillsong Church and one of those is about prosperity theology. Which is probably best summed up in the title of this book by Brian Houston – You Need More Money…..”

Chris Rosebrough, “That is right. The name of a book, a popular book written by Brian Houston. The name of the book is You Need More Money. Uh huh you need more money. Now keep in mind Tanya Levin she grew up in Hillsong. She was part of it. She knew it from the inside out. Not from the outside in. So he is going to ask her about this book and the prosperity gospel and what it is that she learned. Listen in….”

Interviewer, “Can you explain to us what prosperity theology is?”

Tanya Levin, “Prosperity theology is the belief the absolute belief that according to The Bible according to the verses in The Bible God wants you to be rich. He wants you to have prosperity, in every area of your life, particularly your finances and to not be that way is to be disobedient to the word of God.”

Interviewer, “Why would God want you to be rich? What does that achieve?”

Tanya Levin, “You know if the Christians can have all the wealth then they can redistribute it as they wish to you know the areas of poverty that they want to distribute it to. The areas of need that they see fit…”

Interviewer, “Well Hillsong has a strong record of distributing to charity. This is what Brian Houston said on Australian Story about where some of their money goes.”

Brian Houston, “There is various ways that we are able to fund the British projects and community programmes that we are involved in and they include everything from private enterprise to the churches own resources to members of the congregation, to government grants. Sixty percent of the total income goes toward helping directly.”

Interviewer, “From your viewpoint is that the whole picture?”

Tanya Levin, “It is very abstract. Sixty percent of their money goes towards helping people directly. That could mean any number of things.”

Interviewer, “Do you suspect that under closer scrutiny that there is something questionable about the way Hillsong operate?”

Tanya Levin, “I can’t argue that there is anything questionable. What I can argue that is questionable is the lack of transparency. So as much as they might you know say their books are open. Everybody that I have interviewed who has asked to have a look at the books has been told they have got a bad attitude or they have got doubts….”

Chris Rosebrough, “Uh huh yeah this sounds familiar to the Steven Furtick story. You know oh they claim to be transparent. But yet no one has been actually able to see the books. Huh weird….”

Interviewer, “So you are suggesting that Hillsong is primarily setup for recruitment.

Tanya Levin, “…and fundraising…”

Interviewer, “…and fundraising for itself. Which would imply the faith is apparently at its core is not necessarily genuinely a faith. Is this more a question of you having lost your faith – rather than the church having lost its faith…”

Tanya Levin, “It took a very long time to take my faith away from me. It was really the last thing I wanted to do was to admit that all this stuff was true. My opinions have changed again since I have been researching and I have met so many people negatively affected by churches like this. That it just added up to be you know too many people with the same kinds of stories.

Interviewer, “You referred to them as the walking wounded. Why are they wounded?”

Tanya Levin, “I found a very strong pattern in what happens when people show resistance. So everything is happy and everything is fine when you don’t show any kind of resistance. If you show resistance to the pastors, the leadership, the programme, the teaching, you are dealt with very severely.”

Interviewer, “What does severely mean?”

Tanya Levin, “Well you know in cases there are people who have been told that they are demonic and generally what has happened is that once people are showing enough resistance that is going to need to be quelled immediately. They are often ostracized and other congregants are told not to have anything to do with them. Because they have got doubts you know. They are not for us. They must be against us. It is a very fundamentalist polarized point of view.

Interviewer, “Okay when you told Brian and Bobbie that you wanted to write this book. Because you did, what happened – what was the response that you got?”

Tanya Levin, “Well I got a response from the general manager of Hillsong who had said that I had caused significant disruption. That I was never to go on Hillsong premises again and that no they won’t be helping me with the book….”

Chris Rosebrough, “There you go. Information from a former insider at Hillsong. Sounds like the same stuff that we hear from Perry Noble, Steven Furtick, Rick Warren and others. Something is seriously wrong in the Christian church with these celebrity pastors don’t you think?

Alright we are up on our second break. If you would like to email me regarding anything you have heard on this edition or any previous editions of Fighting for the Faith. You can do so my email address is talkback@fightingforthefaith.com or subscribe on Facebook – facebook.com/piratechristian. Follow me on Twitter my name is @piratechristian.

 

 

Fighting for the Faith With Chris Rosebrough – TD Jakes Slams Preachers of LA

[Segment One - 00:03:28 - 00:04:17]

Chris Rosebrough, “And then with that template in mind we will switch gears after the break and we will listen to a TD Jakes doing the same thing while he is trying to distance himself. No joke TD Jakes is trying to distance himself from that new oxygen reality based television show. Like preachers of LA or something like that and oh what a mess that is. So yeah just but the idea here is that the Patricia King gang template then is this exact same template that TD Jakes engages in – same misuse of scripture, same false teaching. Just TD Jakes has better chops than than the Patricia King gang for sure.

[Segment Two – 00:47:21 - 01:02:57]

Chris Rosebrough, “Alright we are back. Warning listening to Fighting for the Faith could cause you to become supremely dissatisfied with your church especially if your pastor is telling you that you need to step out in faith and sow a seed offering. Make it hurt you know. Moving along….

Time for a money grubbing televangelist update TD Jakes….

Dr. Teeth – Money Song

Don’t want no loving
Don’t want no kissing
Don’t want no gal to call me honey

Don’t want my name in the hall of fame
Just want a big fat pile of money

Give me that all mighty dollar for that lettuce every hollar
Give me bucket full of duckets
Let me walk around and waller
In Mazuma el donaro, wanna be a millionairo
Give me money money money money money money

I want that green amunition that’s the stuff for which I’m wishing
Fill my closets with deposits
I am a demon at addition
Give me shackels, give me pesos, let me see their smiling faceos
Money money money money money money

I wanna get me a suit
That’s made out of loot
and whistle to wear it in green

I have got that monetary eye that is being like King Midas
want that golden touch is what I need

Give me that old double eagle
Want that tender that is legal
and financially substantially any sum I can envegel
I want to live in regal splendour
With that loving legal tender
Money money money money money money

I am a greenback collector
I am a paper bill inspector
I am a savage for that cabage
Man to me it’s golden necter

Pour that filthy looter on me
Spread those lovin’ germs upon me
Money money money money money money

And if they ever plant trees of E Plurbus Unum
I wanna be the guy sent out to prune ‘em
Oh give me money!

Yeah there we go – Dr. Teeth and money money money. Now what you are going to hear in just a second is TD Jakes complaining. TD Jakes complaining and taking shots at that new reality TV show ‘The Preachers of LA,’ and if you haven’t seen the well the preview for The Preachers of LA…oh man it is just an absolute abomination. I mean these are guys, you have got guys who literally drive around in Bentley’s, Ferrari’s, and you know live in these ginormous homes. They have memberships at expensive country clubs and you know it is all about the money.

In fact one of them is the guy is shacking up. One of the preachers of LA is literally shacking up with his girlfriend and she has to say to him that you know ‘We are not going to have anymore kids until you marry me…’ kind of thing. I mean it is absolutely ridiculous. In fact what I probably should do is play for you a little bit of the audio from the premiere on YouTube of The Preachers of LA so you know what TD Jakes is griping about. But here listen in….”

[Plays video from YouTube]

Bishop Ron Gibson, “My name is Bishop Ron Gibson….”

Bishop Clarence McClendon, “I am Bishop Clarence McClendon….”

Deitrick Haddon, “My name is Deitrick Haddon….”

Wayne Chaney, “I am Wayne Chaney….”

Chris Rosebrough, “These are the guys and you can’t see it. They showing these guys with these Bentley’s, these huge houses…..”

Bishop Jay Haizlip, “My name is Jay Haizlip….”

Bishop Noel Jones, “My name is Noel Jones….”

Chris Rosebrough, “Oh man I wish I could see this. I mean seriously it is like watching a premiere for lifestyles of the rich and famous….”

[plays audio – music plays]

Chris Rosebrough, “Talk about bling and cars that is a Roll’s Royce….”

Bishop Clarence McClendon, “The Bible says that I wish above all things that you would prosper and be in health even as your soul prospers. I believe that….”

Chris Rosebrough, “Yeah I am sure you do. How much do you think that suit cost? Yeah what about fifteen grand?”

[plays audio]

Bishop Ron Gibson, “P diddy Jay-Z, they are not the only ones who should be driving Ferrari’s and living in large houses…..”

Jay Haizlip, “The Bible says that those among us should reap from us. That is implying that the preacher is to be taken care of….”

Chris Rosebrough, “Yeah taken care of like you know making that his wallet is well padded you know to the point of gazillions of dollars….”

Bishop Noel Jones, “I like being successful….”

Bishop Clarence McClendon, “Security is a necessary part of what we do…”

Chris Rosebrough, “Yeah I…security that is like security entourage. I don’t even think the president has that much security….”

[plays audio]

Pastor Wayne Chaney, “Being a pastor is very dangerous, because you have to be perfect at all times….”

Bishop Noel Jones, “People put you up on a pedestal that you can’t live on. Pastors are people just like everybody else…..”

Dietrich Haddon, “It is all about truth for me from this point on. The truth about my baby out of wedlock. The truth about my divorce it happened. There is nothing I can do about that. I am a pastor, but at the end of the day I am a man.”

Chris Rosebrough, “Uh huh I am a pastor, but at the end of the day I am a man. Sounds like you are not qualified biblically to be a pastor….”

Bishop Noel Jones, “Does it ever get to a place where it really is not about love. But it is about winning….”

Chris Rosebrough, “Now you have got some sort of marital spat going on here…..”

[plays audio]

Woman, “Winning what? Winning a man or a relationship?

Bishop Noel Jones, “No winning me….”

Woman, “You are not a prize….”

Bishop Noel Jones, “I am a prize…..”

Woman, “Let’s get that straight….”

Bishop Noel Jones, “Maybe I don’t love you as much as you love me….”

Woman, “Maybe you don’t and maybe I don’t love you as much as you think I love you….”

Chris Rosebrough, “Oh man. How is it that anybody thinks this is Christianity?”

Pastor Wayne Chaney, “I am trying my best to balance it all and just when you think you have managed….”

Chris Rosebrough, “Now this guy is having you know a conversation with his wife….”

Pastor Wayne Chaney, “I just can’t do this man….”

Woman, “If we plan on….”

Chris Rosebrough, “Now listen to this. This gal is having a conversation with one of the pastors on The Preachers of LA. Listen to what she says so that they are in their really expensive you know really, really nice house and listen to what she says….”

Woman, “If we plan on having more children. I want to be married. We have more than a relationship like I am a part of your congregation. I am not, well don’t pastor me.”

Chris Rosebrough, “Yeah if you want to have anymore children with me, then you better get married to me. What has happened to the church? Now so here is my theory, alright so that you know what it is that you are about to hear. Here is my theory. I think that TD Jakes watched the premiere of The Preachers of LA and decided that this is getting way too close to home. I mean what these guys are doing is basically if you were a magician. Okay, let me put it this way.

If you are a magician The Preachers of LA is like to magicians showing somebody how the magic trick is done. You know so these preachers, these televangelists and those who buy into the Word of Faith heresy – the one thing that these preachers have been really good about is not letting people see where the money is going.

You know to the Ferrari, the Bentley, the Rolls Royce, the you know and the super mansions. So here is the deal TD Jakes probably watched this and went ‘What you can’t show them where the money is going…’ and so now he knows he is in trouble. Because he has got to find a way to you know set himself apart, while all the while TD Jakes is one of the best fleecers out there.

So what you are going to hear and the audio is not that great on this. I apologize. I tried cleaning it up but somebody recorded it off their television. So it is going to sound a little bit tinny. But this is you are going to hear TD Jakes literally doing the same thing that we heard Clarice do. Okay all the while trying to separate himself and distinguish himself from the preachers of LA. Because you know this isn’t about TD Jakes getting money. No, no, no he wants people to step out in faith and experience miracles and stuff. This isn’t about him. Uh huh yeah wait until you hear this. Hang on here we go…. ”

TD Jakes, “Your best seed, even if it is not what you planned to give. Even if it is not what you expected to give. I want you to get your best seed in your hand. You watching over the internet? I challenge you right now to do what you couldn’t do before. The word of the Lord has been preached in this place today. This is an opportunity for you to respond to the word. The word doesn’t work if you don’t respond to it…..”

Chris Rosebrough, “The word doesn’t work if you don’t respond to it. So he wants to give you an opportunity to respond to the word that was preached by sending in money…..”

TD Jakes, “You have got to respond to the word. You have got to take action. You can’t just lay there in the same old bed you were in and suck up this word and be who you were before. Your actions prove that you heard the word of God….”

Chris Rosebrough, “So your actions prove that you have heard the word of God. That means send in money. Uh huh….”

TD Jakes, “I want you to respond and the reason that you are logged on to this broadcast. Somebody is late for their own service. You could not walk away from this message because the Holy Spirit is speaking directly challenging your limitations. I rebuke it now in the name of Jesus. Some of you are moving in your life now. But your business is bound. Your company is bound. Your career is bound….”

Chris Rosebrough, “Your career, your business, your money. It is all bound. But the way you unbind it is by sending money to TD Jakes.”

TD Jakes, “Your products are not moving. Your stuff is not selling. I rebuke that paralytic condition of your finances in the name of Jesus. Your paralysis will be broken today in the name of Jesus. I challenge you to stretch where you couldn’t stretch before….”

Chris Rosebrough, “Yeah that is right stretch where you couldn’t stretch before. Make a large cheque. Lots of lots of zeros. You know that is going to show God that you mean business right and send it to TD Jakes. Uh huh here at the Potters House – Dallas, Texas….”

TD Jakes, “I challenge you to stretch where you couldn’t stretch before and do what you couldn’t do before. I challenge you right now to get your best seed and….”

Chris Rosebrough, “Yeah give your best seed….”

TD Jakes, “I challenge you to stretch where you couldn’t stretch before and do what you couldn’t do before. I challenge you right now to get your best seed and respond to this word like you mean it and respond to this word like you believe it and God will open up the windows of heaven and pour you out a blessing you will not have room enough to receive. Now….”

Chris Rosebrough, “Yeah so God is going to bless you once you send the cheque to TD Jakes. Yeah just hang on it gets better…..”

TD Jakes, “Now you have been watching that junk on TV and I want to tell you right now. Not one dime of what you are sowing right now will buy my suit. I want you to know my car is paid for. I want you to know I got my house on my own….”

Chris Rosebrough, “Alright so, okay so yeah you wear some pretty snappy clothes there TD. So my question, okay so where is the money going to go then? Because he is going to go on and make the case that you know that the mortgage is paid for there at The Potters House. Uh hmm and you know he has got all this money and he is one of the wealthiest people out there right.

Oh but not a single dime is going to go to him. Really can we have an accounting firm confirm that for us please? You know so not one penny is going to go for buying his suit and all this kind of stuff and so where it is it going to go? Oh I forgot this is all about you showing God you know and stretching in faith so that God can open up the floodgates of heaven. I mean TD Jakes is not going to benefit from a dime of what you are sending in. Oh no not at all. But this is all for you so that you can experience God’s blessing which of course comes with a huge price tag….”

TD Jakes, “I want you to know I am not bling bling and I am not changing banks. I had money when I came to Dallas and I plan to have some when I leave. You did not buy what I have got. I had it when I came here. You know I had it when I came here. The devil is a liar. I have sold enough books and produced enough movies. I don’t need your offering to pay for this little slimy suit. So I rebuke that spirit in the name of Jesus Christ. We are going to build the kingdom of God like we have always built the kingdom of God. I am not from LA. I am from Dallas….”

Chris Rosebrough, “Uh hmm….yeah I am not from LA. I am from Dallas. Well yeah it doesn’t matter what city you are in. The word of faith heresy is still a heresy and no God does not demand that people send money to a televangelist TD Jakes or any other in order to earn a blessing or to prove to Him that they are stepping out in faith.

So the template is the same as what we heard from Clarice. It is a false teaching. It is a twisting of God’s word and a fleecing of Christ’s sheep and here TD Jakes oh I guess those preachers in LA should never have let everybody know where the money is going and how they are living because now it is going to hurt business for TD Jakes.

Right so he has got to find a way to distinguish himself from that particular crowd. While all the while he is preaching the same word of faith heresy that they are preaching. Send in your money and God is going to bless it. Stretch out in faith to prove to God that you believe Him and make it hurt. Make the cheque big. See how does Jesus say it? (Matthew 7 v 18) A bad tree can’t bear good fruit now can it?”

Alright we are up on our second break. If you would like to email me regarding anything you have heard on this edition or any previous editions of Fighting for the Faith you can do so. My email address is talkback@fightingforthefaith.com or you can subscribe on Facebook – www.facebook.com/piratechristian or follow me on Twitter. My name there is @piratechristian.

Fighting for the Faith With Chris Rosebrough – TD Jakes Bizarre View and Misuse of Scripture

[First segment on mp3 - 00:06:03 – 00:06:47]

Below is a transcript taken from Chris Rosebrough’s radio show podcast Fighting For The Faith Radio podcast which was originally broadcast on Wednesday October 11th 2013, which you can subscribe to on iTunes. I highly recommend you do this if you want to develop discernment. 

You can also listen to this unbiblical sermon from TD Jakes – Your Day is not Over – part 1. This is available from iTBN – Potter’s Touch website > http://www.itbn.org/index/detail/lib/Networks/sublib/TBN/ec/tyY3Q0ZToiBKYczrEXeUfoomjBNpmJqk#ooid=tyY3Q0ZToiBKYczrEXeUfoomjBNpmJqk

Here is the video link for this transcript > http://youtu.be/5VnqK3bZTW0

Chris Rosebrough, “Then we are going to take a hard left turn into bizarro world. We are going to do a TD Jakes money grubbing televangelist update and you know kind of ask the question what does TD Jakes teach about what the purpose of the Bible is and you know particular portions of it.

You kind of have to hear this to get what I am saying. So we will be listening to eight minutes of a message delivered by TD Jakes entitled Your Day is Not Over and it is just kind of the introduction to this message that he is giving and it is way out there. But it fits with a lot of the stuff we have been playing recently where people somehow totally miss the entire point of scripture.

[Second Segment on mp3 – 00:13:04 - 00:38:31]

Okay I warned you that we were going to be doing well a kind of abrupt left turn and since we are going to doing a money grubbing televangelist update I think it is important that we…I warned you that we are going to be making these abrupt turns today. Very eclectic programme and since we are changing gears just get ready for the exact opposite of what you just heard and to introduce our next segment here is Dr. Teeth….

Dr. Teeth – Money Song

Don’t want no loving
Don’t want no kissing
Don’t want no gal to call me honey

Don’t want my name in the hall of fame
Just want a big fat pile of money

Give me that all mighty dollar for that lettuce every hollar
Give me bucket full of duckets
Let me walk around and waller
In Mazuma el donaro, wanna be a millionairo
Give me money money money money money money

I want that green amunition that’s the stuff for which I’m wishing
Fill my closets with deposits
I am a demon at addition
Give me shackels, give me pesos, let me see their smiling faceos
Money money money money money money

I wanna get me a suit
That’s made out of loot
and whistle to wear it in green

I have got that monetary eye that is being like King Midas
want that golden touch is what I need

Give me that old double eagle
Want that tender that is legal
and financially substantially any sum I can envegel
I want to live in regal splendour
With that loving legal tender
Money money money money money money

I am a greenback collector
I am a paper bill inspector
I am a savage for that cabage
Man to me it’s golden necter

Pour that filthy looter on me
Spread those lovin’ germs upon me
Money money money money money money

And if they ever plant trees of E Plurbus Unum
I wanna be the guy sent out to prune ‘em
Oh give me money!

Alright there we go Dr. Teeth and Money, Money, Money. That is our money grubbing televangelist update music. Now what you are about to hear is a message from TD Jakes and the name of the message is Your Day is Not Over and this is just the lead into the sermon. But already you can tell that the trap is baited. That is probably a right way of putting it. Based upon his view of what the purpose of scripture is and you know what he is going to do with it.

So what you are going to hear is some hermeneutical gymnastics done by a man who is probably one of the most gifted communicators on the planet and unfortunately to go with his gift of communication he doesn’t also have an equal gift of the right handling of God’s Word. In fact quite the opposite. So without any further or due here is TD Jakes to introduce this message of his entitled Your Day is Not Over. We are paying attention now specifically keying in what is his view of scripture and notice how handles it. Here we go….”

TD Jakes, “May God bless you on this particular day as He has never blessed you before. I just believe Him for your day and if you don’t mind I pray for your day today that God would just drift and bless you in a supernatural way. I am excited because I have an opportunity to share a word with you that maybe contradictory to everything that you see going on in your life.

You may feel like you miss your chance and you messed up and you blew it. That your day is over you know you are wrong. This message says your day is not over God has a plan for you, a comeback a turnaround, a moment where he brings equilibrium and stability to that adversity in your life. Your day is not over. Take a look at this….”

Chris Rosebrough, “What? Okay not sure what he is doing there. But this is kind of again you get some dream destiny, some major purpose, some and your day is not over. You can accomplish it kind of a thing and we have heard this message a thousand different ways from Tuesday in the seeker driven movement. In the charismatic movement, the new apostolic reformation you know, Word of Faith I mean it is all over the place – except for historic orthodox Christianity. Here we go….”

TD Jakes, “Ecclesiastes the great thinker. The great writer, the great sage identifies a very unique association between purpose and times….”

Chris Rosebrough, “Ecclesiastes he sounds like a train wreck there. Ecclesiastes so apparently in Ecclesiastes it describes a unique connection between purpose and time. Hmm…..”

TD Jakes, “He says there is a time and season for every purpose under heaven….”

Chris Rosebrough, “Yeah….”

TD Jakes, “There is a time and a season for every purpose under heaven. In other words time is born with the twin called purpose….”

Chris Rosebrough, “In other words time is born with the called purpose. The text that he is referring to by the way is a very familiar passage. You familiar with that song for everything turn there is a season. Turn you know yeah it is from Ecclesiastes 3. Listen carefully….

Ecclesiastes 3 v 1-8 (English Standard Version)

1 For everything there is a season, and a time for every matter under heaven:

2 a time to be born, and a time to die;
a time to plant, and a time to pluck up what is planted;
3 a time to kill, and a time to heal;
a time to break down, and a time to build up;
4 a time to weep, and a time to laugh;
a time to mourn, and a time to dance;
5 a time to cast away stones, and a time to gather stones together;
a time to embrace, and a time to refrain from embracing;
6 a time to seek, and a time to lose;
a time to keep, and a time to cast away;
7 a time to tear, and a time to sew;
a time to keep silence, and a time to speak;
8 a time to love, and a time to hate;
a time for war, and a time for peace.

So when you put that passage back in context it is not saying what he is saying. He is just making reference to it and hasn’t actually read the passage and now he is making this weird statement. Let me back this up again so you can hear it because this then forms the foundation for his launching off point from here. So we continue here we go….”

TD Jakes, “There is a time and a season for every purpose under heaven. In other words time is born with the twin called purpose and it is a waste of time to extend days without purpose….”

Chris Rosebrough, “Yeah that is not what Ecclesiastes 3 says!”

TD Jakes, “God gives us days then for purpose. The Psalmist David said teach….”

Chris Rosebrough, “Did you see how he did that? Well there you go

Ecclesiastes 3 v 1 is all about who knew that see there is a time for purpose. That is what he did with this and so notice he makes a reference to the text. Kind of fools around with the text, makes a statement and then builds on the statement and now we are to a conclusion that is actually not in the text itself. But this isn’t the main part of what I want to focus on. Let me just back up just a little and then we will keep going forward. Notice pay attention to what he thinks the purpose of scripture is as we go through this sound bite of his.”

TD Jakes, “The Psalmist David said teach me to number my days O God that I may know how frail I am. Teach me to count my days to have birthdays and weeks and months. So that I can realise that I am temporal. That I have a limit to how long I can meander, to stop me from wandering, to give me focus, to give me tenacity, and commitment and resilience. You don’t learn that at first. It takes a while to number your days. I will guarantee you will waste a few of them. Before you begin to appreciate I only have a certain amount and that becomes important.

Dates are important. Let us give us some sort of reference as to where we are in regard to accomplishment of purpose. I wasn’t feeling too good the other day and I said something to my wife and my wife is adamant about this and I said I am not feeling too good. I want to take a Advil or something and she said you know I just look for anything that says Advil and swallow it. She started snatching, ‘No no that has an expiration date.’ I would have never known it because I wouldn’t have checked the date. I just swallowed the pill. She said, ‘No it is only good to this day and it is this date over here and you shouldn’t take it past this date. If that is true about medicine, then you must also realise it is true about life.’

Chris Rosebrough, “None of the biblical authors had access to Advil or drugs that had a particular use by date. So I don’t know I am sorry Ecclesiastes 3 has nothing to do with Advil and medicines that have an expiration date and so now apparently not as a principle here that you have got to apply to yourself. We continue….”

TD Jakes, “Not only through the metaphor I discussed, but from the scriptures itself you have an expiration date….”

Chris Rosebrough, “Yeah it is called the day that I die….”

TD Jakes, “If you are going to fulfil your purpose, you have to fulfil it within a certain window of time.”

Chris Rosebrough, “Yeah that time when you know you are still breathing. Again Ecclesiastes 3 doesn’t teach anything about me having a purpose and that you know that there is a time twin thing going on with it.”

TD Jakes, “Time, purpose, purpose, time, purpose, purpose, time. So the enemy of this world doesn’t have to kill you, if he disassociates your sense of purpose from time.

Chris Rosebrough, “Ah wow that clever devil, who knew….”

TD Jakes, “Just renders you inoperable. The Advil was still there, but it had not been used in time. [Laughs]”

Chris Rosebrough, “Yeah that was a little demonic laughter wasn’t it? Let me back that up.”

[Play s clip of TD Jakes laughing]

Chris Rosebrough, “Yeah that ultimately creeped me out there….”

TD Jakes, “There are people in this room who are oblivious to purpose and time. But there are many of us who were born with the sense of urgency that we put here to do something. We knew it many times.”

Chris Rosebrough, “Oh boy how important you must be….”

TD Jakes, “There are people in this room who are oblivious to purpose and time. But there are many of us who were born with the sense of urgency that we put here to do something. We knew it many times as children. We knew it even in our foolishness. We knew it even in our wildness. We knew it even in our predicament. We knew it even in our propensity to procrastinate.

We still knew that we were put here to do something. That knowledge is what pulls you up out of the gutter of your own human debauchery, it stops you. Not that you are any better than anyone else. It is just that you sense there is something higher calling you beyond your human proclivities to wince….”

Chris Rosebrough, “A sense uh hmm…..”

TD Jakes, “You say I have got to do something, sometimes you don’t even know what it is. You just know you have got to do something. Sometimes you don’t”

Chris Rosebrough, “Yeah you have got to figure out what that something is though you better ask God to tell you – you know through speaking to you through a whisper, a still small voice or something right. What is this theology? And how it is it that this has come to reign as the core theology in evangelicalism. This isn’t what The Bible teaches at all….”

TD Jakes, “You say I have got to do something, sometimes you don’t even know what it is. You just know you have got to do something. Sometimes you don’t know where you are going, you just know where you have got to go. I don’t know where I am going, but I can’t stay here. I don’t know who I am. But I have figured out who I am not. This is….somebody knows what I am talking about.”

Chris Rosebrough, “No it is not me….”

TD Jakes, “For this task God has selected Joshua. Now Moses to me is the mighty pastor of The Old Testament. There is none like him. He is a mighty prophet. He is a mighty pastor. He is selected to lead the wondering sheep of Israel through the wilderness of confusion….”

Chris Rosebrough, “Through the wilderness of confusion. Notice he is already allegorizing the wilderness here. Hmm….okay so Moses is set to lead the people through the wilderness of confusion and he is kind of setting up the story of Joshua here. Pay attention to the details as to why God according to TD Jakes isn’t going to allow Moses to be the one to lead the people of Israel into the promised land. Listen to what he does….”

TD Jakes, “For this task God has selected Joshua. Now Moses to me is the mighty pastor of The Old Testament. There is none like him. He is a mighty prophet. He is a mighty pastor. He is selected to lead the wondering sheep of Israel through the wilderness of confusion detoxing them from their servitude, bringing them into an absoluteness of sonship. It took forty years for them to begin to recognize you are not owned, but owners. Yeah…”

Chris Rosebrough, “Yeah which passage of scripture says that the children of Israel had to realise they weren’t owned, but owners. I am not familiar with any of those passages….”

TD Jakes, “Yeah an entire generation had to die out because they were born into an owned situation and they were being translated into an owning situation and when you have been owned sometimes it is hard for your mind to recognize that you have transitioned from being the property to the property owner. It took about forty years a lot of wondering, a lot of dying and now God said, ‘Moses you….’”

Chris Rosebrough, “Pause here. Remember our principle that we used earlier this week. The idea that scripture interprets scripture, that being the case – what is the reason given in the New Testament as to why the children of Israel died in the wilderness? Was it because they failed to make the transition mentally from being owned to being owners? Is that what the New Testament says? Well Jude v5 makes this clear. Writing under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit….

Jude 5

Now I want to remind you, although you once fully knew it, that Jesus, who saved a people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed those who did not believe.

Yeah that is right they were destroyed because of unbelief. Not because they wondering through the wilderness of confusion, having a difficult time making the transition from going from being owned to being owners. So there is a lot of bad theology packed in here. But I am going to back this up just a hair so that you can then hear the reason why according to TD Jakes Moses wasn’t the one to lead the children of Israel into the promised land. We continue….”

TD Jakes, “For this task God has selected Joshua. Now Moses to me is the mighty pastor of The Old Testament. There is none like him. He is a mighty prophet. He is a mighty pastor. He is selected to lead the wondering sheep of Israel through the wilderness of confusion detoxing them from their servitude, bringing them into an absoluteness of sonship.

It took forty years for them to begin to recognize you are not owned, but owners. An entire generation had to die out because they were born into an owned situation and they were being translated into an owning situation and when you have been owned sometimes it is hard for your mind to recognize that you have transitioned from being the property to the property owner. It took about forty years a lot of wondering, a lot of dying and now God said, ‘Moses you were good to bring them to this point. But now that they are owning and not being owned I need Joshua, because Joshua is a fighter.”

Chris Rosebrough, “Uh huh do you remember that passage from the Old Testament where God says to Moses you have done a great job but let me play the quote so you can hear it again. I mean does”

TD Jakes, “God said, ‘Moses you were good to bring them to this point. But now that they are owning and not being owned I need Joshua, because Joshua is a fighter.”

Chris Rosebrough, “Hmm….do you remember that passage? Are you familiar with it? I mean where God says to Moses, ‘Hey listen now that they are owning rather than being owned. Hey listen I need Joshua to lead the people of Israel into the promised land because He is a fighter and you are not.’ Do you remember where that is? Second Hesitations chapter 86 I think you know something like that. It is not in there. That passage isn’t in The Bible at all. TD Jakes just made it up. Just literally just made it up. That dialogue doesn’t exist.

But there is a passage that does explain why Moses isn’t the one leading the children of Israel into the promised land. You can actually find it in The Old Testament. It is found in the book of Numbers. That is right Numbers 20. I will start at v1….

Numbers 20 v 1-13 (ESV – English Standard Version)

1 And the people of Israel, the whole congregation, came into the wilderness of Zin in the first month, and the people stayed in Kadesh. And Miriam died there and was buried there. Now there was no water for the congregation. And they assembled themselves together against Moses and against Aaron. And the people quarreled with Moses and said, “Would that we had perished when our brothers perished before the Lord! Why have you brought the assembly of the Lord into this wilderness, that we should die here, both we and our cattle? And why have you made us come up out of Egypt to bring us to this evil place? It is no place for grain or figs or vines or pomegranates, and there is no water to drink.” Then Moses and Aaron went from the presence of the assembly to the entrance of the tent of meeting and fell on their faces. And the glory of the Lord appeared to them, and the Lord spoke to Moses, saying, “Take the staff, and assemble the congregation, you and Aaron your brother, and tell the rock before their eyes to yield its water. So you shall bring water out of the rock for them and give drink to the congregation and their cattle.” And Moses took the staff from before the Lord, as he commanded him.

10 Then Moses and Aaron gathered the assembly together before the rock, and he said to them, “Hear now, you rebels: shall we bring water for you out of this rock?” 11 And Moses lifted up his hand and struck the rock with his staff twice, and water came out abundantly, and the congregation drank, and their livestock. 12 And the Lord said to Moses and Aaron, “Because you did not believe in me, to uphold me as holy in the eyes of the people of Israel, therefore you shall not bring this assembly into the land that I have given them.” 13 These are the waters of Meribah, where the people of Israel quarrelled with the Lord, and through them he showed himself holy.

So what happened? God said to Moses, ‘Tell the rock, speak to the rock to yield its water. Moses didn’t speak to the rock. He struck it and the first time he struck it no water came out and you know what he did? Struck it again, this time the water came out. But because according to the LORD he did not believe him, to uphold the LORD as holy in the eyes of the people he was therefore punished and said he would not be the one to bring the assembly into the land – the promised land. That is the reason why. So that is what scripture says. Here is again is what TD Jakes said.

TD Jakes, “It took about forty years a lot of wondering, a lot of dying and now God said, ‘Moses you were good to bring them to this point. But now that they are owning and not being owned I need Joshua, because Joshua is a fighter.”

Chris Rosebrough, “That is blasphemy isn’t it? He has added to scripture – completely changed the story. But all of that then is to setup this idea of what is the purpose of the story of Joshua then?”

TD Jakes, “It is one thing to believe something and wonder, but when you get ready to possess it. You have got to fight. Hey I am going to say it is one thing to believe something and wonder. But when you get ready to possess it, you have got to fight. You cannot be led by a Moses, when it is time to fight. You have got to be led by a Joshua. Because Joshua had a fighting instinct….”

Chris Rosebrough, “So you can’t be led a Moses, when it is time to fight. This is all nonsense. It is false doctrine. This is lying about God and lying about His word.”

TD Jakes, “Fighter, if you are a fighter, tell somebody and say, ‘I am a fighter.’ That doesn’t necessarily mean that I am going up my dukes to punch you. That doesn’t necessarily mean that I am going to push you out of your seat. It does mean if that you between in me and what God has promised me. Don’t expect me to lay down and let you take over. Any there any fighters in the house? Fought to get up, fought to finish what you started. Fought to get in the college. Fought to stay in the college. Fought to keep your mind against opposition…..”

Chris Rosebrough, “Yeah none of this has anything to do with what the Bible really says. This is false doctrine and filling people’s minds with garbage….”

TD Jakes, “You are not there because you weren’t in a fight. You had to fight every step of the way to get to where you are and if you are not a fighter you are not going to finish. You have got to bad. You have got to be down with it. You have got to be bad. You have got to be ready come hell or high water. I want to….”

Chris Rosebrough, “Uh hmm you have got to be ready come hell or high water. What does this have to do with the Bible – what it really says? Absolutely nothing….”

TD Jakes, “….And Joshua is in a fight. He is in a fight and he doesn’t exactly know where he is going. Because sometimes when you are a fighter and fighting to accomplish your purpose you don’t exactly know what you is doing. One time he pulls his sword on the angel of God. He has fought so much that anything coming in his direction he will tell. He says are you for me or against me? When you have had to fight all your life, sometimes it is hard to make friends. Because anybody that gets in close proximity to you, you draw your sword and say, ‘Don’t start nothing I…’”

Chris Rosebrough, “Yeah what does this have to do with scripture? Nothing the idea here is well when you get ready to read the book of Joshua that is the blueprint for how to be a fighter in your life. To take possession, to learn how to be an owner rather than being owned and all that kind of stuff. Filling these people with absolute nonsense – doctrinal nonsense.

The Bible doesn’t mean any of this and the proof for that is the fact that in order to get to this message he had to lie, literally lie – make up stuff about what the biblical text says and that is not rightly handling God’s word. That is deceiving and that is what sends people to hell.

Alright we are up on our first break. If you would like to email me regarding anything you have heard on this edition any or previous editions of Fighting for the Faith. You can do so my email address is talkback@fightingforthefaith.com or you can subscribe on Facebook – www.facebook.com/piratechristian or follow me on Twitter. My name there is @piratechristian.

 

Fighting for the Faith With Chris Rosebrough – Beth Moore’s Non-Exegetical Eisegesis

Below is a transcript taken from Chris Rosebrough’s radio show podcast Fighting For The Faith Radio podcast which was originally broadcast on Wednesday October 2nd 2013, which you can subscribe to on iTunes. I highly recommend you do this if you want to develop discernment. 

You can also listen to this unbiblical sermon from Beth Moore – Discovering Our True Selves – part 5. This is available from the ‘Life Today audio podcast’ in iTunes and it is available from Light Source > http://www.lightsource.com/ministry/wednesdays-with-beth/video-player/beth-moore-our-true-selves-part-5-366854.html

Here is the video link for this transcript > http://youtu.be/OVdT02UpYCA

[Mp3 - First Segment - 00:02:14 – 00:05:49]

Chris Rosebrough, “Now there is a particular technique that I have noted among certain very popular teachers within Christendom and I am using Christendom in like broadest possible meaning here. We will say maybe the visible church, although we can’t see the invisible church. The invisible church is made up of those who are truly penitent and trusting Christ for the forgiveness of their sins.

But the idea is this is that if somebody is really a popular teacher within the visible church don’t you think that person should be noted by and basically earn the right to have a large audience due to the fact that they do a stellar job of rightly handling God’s Word and helping us to understand it, so that we can all be good disciples of Jesus Christ.

I mean after all false doctrine is forbidden by scripture. In fact you teaching false doctrine, you be in big trouble. Jesus is not too hip on that and neither is God the Holy Spirit and so the idea is that this particular technique that I have made reference to just in passing, but haven’t really defined is a fascinating technique and what I find interesting about it is that it kind of goes something like this.

Open up your Bibles to ex-wi-zee chapter and verse and then the person begins to read ex-wi-zee chapter and verse. And no sooner are they done reading chapter and verse maybe two, three verses at the most. Then they proceed to launch into something that verse doesn’t even talk about or say and normally they end up talking about themselves.

You know it is the weirdest thing. It is as if somehow you know we open God’s word and we read the stories that are there and you know I can’t help it. But I have got to tell you one of my life stories and somehow my life story seems to be connected to this verse and you know the problem is the way it is connected is in the most tortuous of well how do I say this. It is not even correctly put together. You know there is no real connection here and you know it is a very tenuous connection at best and most of the times it is no connection at all.

Now I notice this with all kinds of popular teachers. Joel Osteen, Rick Warren, Steven Furtick, you can even say Beth Moore.

In fact we are going to have a Beth Moore update today and I…do I have a Beth Moore update music. It is been so long since we have done an update on Beth Moore that I….she is not really a regular. She is somebody who from time to time I tune into and one of the reasons why I don’t do her you know do Beth Moore updates more often….well and I probably should is because she is one of these gals who let’s just say that she really gives a good exegete, a run for their and often times finding the error in the way she is handling God’s Word is very subtle and takes a lot of work.

In fact you know she out of all of the people out there who I have noted actually have a propensity for twisting God’s Word. Especially in this way that we are going to talk about today. She is the best at hiding it and actually does attempt to at least engage in something of exegesis which kind of begs the question is that…you know she doesn’t claim to be a pastor. But man a lot of people look to her and her teaching as if she were their pastor. You know what I am saying but anyway that is probably a topic for a different episode of Fighting for the Faith.

[Mp3 - Second Segment – 00:08:06 – 00:08:50]

And then we will take our break and when we come back from our break we are going to have an extended Beth Moore you know listen to and she is one of these ones that you know she does some things right and then there is this other thing that she does that you know she…well I won’t even tell you the text that she is supposedly teaching on. Because the lead off into it you know you have got, this is from The Life Today programme.

They set her up as basically saying that Beth Moore is going to teach us about our true selves and I am thinking, ‘Our true selves what is that?’ And then she launches…she you know they so when they segway into her – she is talking about plastic surgery and so without looking you know could you guess what passage of scripture she is actually teaching on? Yeah it is going to be a little bit of challenge.

[Mp3 -Third segment – 00:45:37 - 01:08:46]

Chris Rosebrough, “Alright we are back. Warning if you are attending a church and the pastor is spends an enormous amount of time twisting a scripture into telling you how wonderful and important you are, rather than telling you about Christ – run your eternal life depends on it!!!

Alright here I think I have used this music before in the past for Beth Moore updates but here we go.

I am woman – Helen Reddy

I am woman, hear me roar
In numbers too big to ignore
And I know too much to go back an’ pretend
‘Cause I have heard it all before
And I’ve been down there on the floor
No one’s ever gonna keep me down again

Oh yes, I am wise
But it’s wisdom born of pain
Yes, I have paid the price
But look how much I gained
If I have to, I can do anything
I am strong
(Strong)
I am invincible
(Invincible)
I am woman….

Yeah there we go Helen Reddy – I am woman. Hear me roar. Okay yeah I think we will be using that for Beth Moore in the future if we haven’t already done that in the past. It has been a long time since we have done a Beth Moore update.

So what we are going to be listening to today is we are going to be listening to a segment from The Life Today television programme where Beth Moore holds court if you would and we are going to hear her being introduced by the hosts of Life Today and supposedly she is going to be talking about discovering our true selves and I am not going to tell you what passage of scripture she is supposedly teaching through.

See if you can figure it out based on the intro. Because like again we are kind of delving into this. Notice what Joel Osteen did with scripture. Just throw out this verse just completely out of context. Made it say what it doesn’t say and then no sooner is it out on the table. It just departs and then starts making up stuff. Ah well this is what Beth Moore is doing, although she got starts out by just making up stuff and then finding the biblical verse and I can’t figure out the connection but she is better than most at handling God’s word. Let’s just put it that way. She actually makes some effort to try to handle it correctly whereas most of the Bible twisters don’t.

So here is the folks over at Life Today to introduce this segment from Beth Moore on Discovering Our True Selves. Yeah here we go.

James Robison, “And you are going to want to do that. Well Beth is teaching on our true selves and I think sometimes people don’t know. They really don’t know what they look like and I think even you know sometimes we have too an opinion. But more than often we may have a low opinion and then we don’t want to get honest about ourselves. Well let’s listen to Beth because I think she is going to inspire all of us. Here is Beth welcome….”

Chris Rosebrough, “That is I think James Robison introducing because she is going to be talking about our true selves. Okay can you figure out just from this introduction which passage of scripture she is going to be teaching from? No ideas well you know let’s see if….let’s fill in a little bit more data. Here we go….”

James Robison, “Here is Beth welcome….”

Beth Moore, “Listen have you ever had a revelation happen to you when you realised that what it is you find distasteful about somebody is what is in them is that in you. I hate it….”

Chris Rosebrough, “Uh hmm you know what passage of scripture she is teaching through yet? Okay alright more data. I am sure you need more data. Here we go….”

Beth Moore, “I absolutely hate it. But what you resist is that it forces you to look in the mirror. That what you see in them is a seed of yourself. Uh that is what you can’t stand and it is this glance. I have got to tell you where this has happened to me and because we are just being honest. This is our series. We are just like being transparent with before one another. Unfortunately I am the only one doing all the talking. It is time for you to write to me and tell me all your honesty. Okay every now and then….”

Chris Rosebrough, “Does she blink? I mean seriously I feel like I am watching a humming bird on crack or something. It just ah!”

Beth Moore, “Okay every now and then God will cause me to kind of have odd almost an obsessive stare at a woman who in her attempt to retain youth when youth was no longer possible she has completely disfigured her face….”

Chris Rosebrough, “Oh you like mean like Joyce Meyer! Whoops did I say that out loud.”

Beth Moore, “I am talking about disfiguring her face. I am talking about when you look at somebody and think what has happened that you can look in the mirror and you think that looks okay. I have got a very good a dear friend who is a dermatologist and she said you cannot know how many times we try to say to a patient, ‘It is not going to look good.’

And I ask you she said every now and then she just goes, ‘I am not. I can’t do it. You can have somebody else do it. But I am not doing it.’ Because when you do that you are honestly not going to look real. I don’t mean trying to work with what you have got. I am not talking about a little nipping and tucking here. I am talking about….”

Chris Rosebrough, “Alright pause right there. Do you know which passage of scripture she will be referencing with this introduction regarding our true selves. No idea yet okay I don’t know, just alright let’s continue….”

Beth Moore, “I am talking about a whole restructuring where somebody looks like they got on this weird mask and they got these implants in their face. They no longer have any nose at all and now when listen when your cheeks stick out further than your nose and your profile.

Something ain’t right. Is somebody with me on this? But see the Lord I almost get obsessed with it. Like I can’t quit looking at it, like if it is in an airport or something or in a restaurant or something sometimes Keith will go do I need to sit to the side where I can see better? Because what I know is bothering me is that I think the Holy Spirit is saying to me, ‘You want to be careful Beth don’t you?’ You know because I want to work out.….”

Chris Rosebrough, “So now we have got direct revelation you know coming into play here. God the Holy Spirit speaking directly to Beth Moore. Do you know which passage of scripture she is going to be teaching on yet regarding our true selves with this introduction? Any passages come to mind yet? Alright more data here we go.”

Beth Moore, “I like fun clothes. You know I want to have cool hip hair. I…you know where is the line? I don’t know. I don’t where it is. Because if somebody argued it with me and I would say, ‘Do you colour your hair?’ We wear makeup. Most of you guys don’t. Some of you do. I mean like where is the line? Because truly the only way you can know it in the culture that we live in is to walk in the Spirit enough to where God can say with His Holy Spirit within in you, ‘Uh hmm….’ and so the Lord will constantly when I am in a situation I am looking at someone that is just a few years older than me, that has kind of gone bizarre on it.

I will hear him say in my inner man, ‘Is that what you want? You better be careful….’

Chris Rosebrough, “So God the Holy Spirit is telling you is that what you want? You better be careful. Okay so you get direct revelation from God. Do you know which passage of scripture she is going to be teaching on yet? Nope not yet okay….”

Beth Moore, “You better be careful Beth. Stay this side of the line. Lord well I know where the line is and so I have got to deal with my daughters. My daughters are both in their early 30s. One is 30 and one is 32 and I have got to deal with them.

I say this is what I want you both to do, if mummy ever crosses the line and I no longer look like a normal person and you ever come home and I have got a small nose and listen I am not listen I am not talking about I am not dogging having a nose job. I listen I goodness knows I would love to have had one at some point. But by the time I had the money to I didn’t care anymore.

Does anybody know why that is not, but so I am not dogging any of that. But I am saying it is bizarre when somebody is anybody I need to see your hand if you know what I am talking about which is like bizarre, like woah! I mean let me tell you….by the time there is this whole big thing that came out a couple of years ago. 60 is sexy. I am going to tell you something. No it is not….”

Chris Rosebrough, “Okay any guesses as to which passage she is going to be teaching on yet? Nope okay more data. Let’s this is a tough one here you know because wait until you hear the passage. I mean supposedly this has something to do with a particular passage of scripture….”

Beth Moore, “Well pick your shirt up because it is really not. You know it is a lot of things. It is a lot of good things. But no sexy is not one of them. I can’t really even tell you 50 is sexy. I just can’t because you know it is not what it is about then. But we are trying to be that. It is a little gross and so I ask my am I telling you all the truth or am I making something up?

Is this just me being sensitive or have you seen it? And so I have made a deal with my daughters. My Amanda and Melissa I said, ‘Here is what I want you to do. If you ever like look at me and go, ‘Woah where is our mother?’ I want you to say, ‘Mother we love you so much. But you look like an idiot.’ That is all I am asking. I need somebody. Because see what we don’t like is just that we have to face something that is like a goliath size of something that is pent up inside of us and it is scary….”

Chris Rosebrough, “Alright now she has approached the podium here and there is a Bible on the podium. So I mean before she breaks out The Bible here, any final guesses as to which passage of scripture she is teaching on?

This is a tough one isn’t it huh? Because yeah I have no idea. Yeah I mean when you hear the….when you what passage of scripture she is supposedly teaching on I am well you might want to be careful here. I don’t want you to suffer from whiplash or anything. Here we go….”

Beth Moore, “Now I want to read the first three verses of Genesis 33 and….”

Chris Rosebrough, “Okay so Genesis 33 the first three verses. There it is that is the reference and if you have your Bible let’s take a look. Genesis 33 v 1-3, man I just okay man I am just working through my memory banks here. Genesis 33 that would be something to do with Jacob right?

Okay so it is before Joseph and clearly before Joseph. Definitely after Abraham, definitely after Isaac. So okay we are dealing with Jacob. Okay so what story comes to mind in the stories of Jacob that would warrant you going into a discussion on finding your true self and you know and you having a discussion about the importance of being real regarding plastic surgery, nose jobs, and coming to grips with the fact that 60 is not sexy. Okay so Genesis 33 v 1-3. Let me read them.

Genesis 33 v 1-3 (ESV – English Standard Version)

1 And Jacob lifted up his eyes and looked, and behold, Esau was coming, and four hundred men with him. So he divided the children among Leah and Rachel and the two female servants. And he put the servants with their children in front, then Leah with her children, and Rachel and Joseph last of all. He himself went on before them, bowing himself to the ground seven times, until he came near to his brother.

There you go. You see the connection yet? I don’t see any connection with what she led off with in this teaching about discovering our true selves and this passage. It doesn’t make any sense at all. But see that is kind of how things go nowadays among popular teachers within the visible church.

It doesn’t matter what any biblical text says because no sooner do you read a biblical text or you know you know you hover around it and circle the podium and yeah then you are off it talking about something that has nothing to do with it. So Genesis 33 v 1-3 apparently is telling us the importance of being careful with plastic surgery and stuff like that. Do you see the connection? I don’t let’s continue though. Let’s give Beth an opportunity to see if we can find out what is going on with her exegetical insights into this passage and what that has to do with that opening. Here we go….”

Beth Moore, “I am relieved and you are relieved because listen that was a painful few minutes we just spent wasn’t it? Was it painful that anybody besides me? I would love to hear what you men are relating on because there has got to be a way that relates to you guys as well.

Genesis 33 v 1-3, so here he goes walking out. We have got the sun coming up and the music is really playing loud. It is so powerful. The sun is rising you can see that sun coming up just like purple through that through the clouds and through that gorgeous ray of sun coming up and we see Jacob and he is limping and a lot of scholars will say there is no reason for us to think that he ever got over it….”

Chris Rosebrough, “Yeah he is limping because he just had a limping match with Jesus.”

Beth Moore, “Genesis 33 v 1-3, so here he goes walking out. We have got the sun coming up and the music is really playing loud. It is so powerful. The sun is rising you can see that sun coming up just like purple through that through the clouds and through that gorgeous ray of sun coming up and we see Jacob and he is limping and a lot of scholars will say there is no reason for us to think that he ever got over it.

I mean he was going to like pull out his leg. You know what I am saying? In those days a lot of times when there was an injury it just stayed and it just dogged them until their death and so in all likelihood he always kind of had a little bit of an unstable walk and it says….

Genesis 33 v 1-3 (ESV – English Standard Version)

1 And Jacob lifted up his eyes and looked, and behold, Esau was coming….

And I love this part because it goes ahead and tells us that the four hundred men sure enough four hundred men were with him.

Genesis 33 v 1 (ESV – English Standard Version)

….1 and four hundred men with him.

And so here is what Jacob did. Now we remember those of us who were in the first half of the series together. We know that he did a lot of conniving and planning and we are going to see how much he really brings to pass at this point. Because here is what happens….

Chris Rosebrough, “Yeah…..”

Beth Moore, “Because here is what happens is that he divides the children among the mothers. Here is Leah and Rachel and their children….”

Genesis 33 v 1 (ESV – English Standard Version)

1 So he divided the children among Leah and Rachel and the two female servants.

Chris Rosebrough, “Yeah again what did that introduction have to do with this passage? I do not see the connection. Do you see the connection? I don’t see the connection but this is how people supposedly preach The Bible nowadays. Their commentary the things they go off on have nothing to do with anything that is actually in the text and supposedly this is all about finding our true selves. This is what James Robison told us. But I mean does any of this make any lucid sense to you? It doesn’t make any sense to me….”

Beth Moore, “Here is what happens is that as he divides the children among the mothers. Here is Leah and Rachel and their children. Here is the servants with them and he put the servants with their children in front and Leah and her children and Rachel and Joseph last of all. But notice something very important here v3.

Genesis 33 v 3 (ESV – English Standard Version)

He himself went on before them, bowing himself to the ground seven times, until he came near to his brother.

He himself went on, what is the next word? Ahead of them. He went before them. Do you remember over and over? Check it out, all over Genesis 32. He was saying and Jacob he is coming behind us. Always hiding behind us, pushing us from the person we are not wanting to face. Have you ever really needed to face someone and not just because it is a biblical command to take another witness.

But because you wanted protection, you take a whole group with you so that person will be nice to you? Anybody only this time something has happened. Because this time Jacob is right up front. Because you see once we have wrestled with God and lived through it we can face almost anything.”

Chris Rosebrough, “Uh really supposedly Genesis 33 is telling us that once we have wrestled with God we can handle anything. I haven’t wrestled with God have you? Has God you know taken your hip joint and pulled it out of socket? I mean notice this is narcissistic eisegesis, just basically taking the text allegorizing it and then reading yourself into it as if this is somehow prescriptive for your life. It is not….”

Beth Moore, “He is ready to go face Him and what I just love is he faces Him. He walks on ahead of them with his limp and you know what occurred to me? You know we have all got a limp, we all do. I need you to know….”

Chris Rosebrough, “No I don’t. I don’t have a limp unless I pull a muscle in my leg. You know I don’t, I actually don’t walk with a limp. Do you walk with a limp? I don’t walk with a limp. So notice she reads the text. No sooner is it out that now she is off talking about us, as if somehow this passage somehow is telling me something about me. It is not…aye-yi-yi-yi….”

Beth Moore, “I need you to know I have got a limp. You don’t live 55 years on planet earth unscathed. Hurts happen, injuries happen….”

Chris Rosebrough, “Yeah Jacob had a for real actual bonafide limp. If we had you know took a film crew back into Canaan at that time and filmed this you know Jacob post wrestling with God in you know Genesis 33 at this event. If we were to record a family reunion on tape of the reunion between Jacob and Esau.

We would see him walking with a bonafide limp. She is not talking about a real limp here. She is talking about some figurative limp that you have in your life and this passage is not talking about that. Again she reads the text and now she is off topic talking about something.

She is not telling us what this text really says, what it means as if this passage has something to do with plastic surgery and 60 not being the new sexy and now you know talking about oh she has got a limp and I am watching her walk around the podium here on this television set and no she doesn’t have a limp….”

Beth Moore, “I need you to know I have got a limp. You don’t live 55 years on planet earth unscathed. Hurts happen, injuries happen, all of us have scars, all of us have wounds, all of us do. Life is tough. It is tough so we have all got a limp of some kind, wrestling through life on planet earth. But we do our best to hide it.

Why because I am going to tell you something actually we are going to see Esau run to him and I wonder if we could make the point that when we are not so careful to hide our limp and when we want everybody to think we have got it together. We are no longer even approachable….”

Chris Rosebrough, “Uh please….so the reason why Esau ran to Jacob was because Jacob had a limp and but had he not had a limp, he wouldn’t have been approachable. Does any of this make any sense to you? This is nonsense. This is gobbledygook. This isn’t exegesis. This isn’t proper hermeneutics. This is talking about yourself, allegorizing the biblical text and making it say things that they don’t say.

Do you think God had Moses write down Genesis 33 so that you can learn about the dangers of plastic surgery and the importance of walking with the limp so that you can be approachable by people? You get what I am saying.

I don’t need to go on and it is but this is just another example of it. I mean this weird thing that is going on in the church where people who are popular teachers. They don’t pay any attention whatsoever about what these texts really say and what they really mean.

They are more interested in talking about themselves and finding see the thing is that people who listen to this kind of teaching, they think they are being taught sound biblical doctrine. They think they are being good disciples of Jesus and are learning what The Bible says. No they are not, they are not learning what The Bible says at all. They are learning narcissistic nonsense, which is exactly what that is and it is like the favourite Bible twisting technique of most popular teachers in the visible church today and this is no way to study God’s word and to learn what it really says.

In fact this kind of teaching works against that goal of teaching you sound doctrine and what Christ really said and really taught and what The Bible really is about and what it really means. Something to consider…..

Alright we are up on our second break. If you would like to email me regarding anything you have heard on this edition or any previous editions of Fighting for the Faith. You can do so. My email address is talkback@fightingforthefaith.com or you can subscribe on Facebook. www.facebook.com/piratechristian or follow me on Twitter. My name there is @piratechristian.

Fighting for the Faith With Chris Rosebrough – Joel Osteen’s Major Bible Twist

Below is a transcript taken from Chris Rosebrough’s radio show podcast Fighting For The Faith Radio podcast which was originally broadcast on Wednesday October 2nd 2013, which you can subscribe to on iTunes. I highly recommend you do this if you want to develop discernment. 

You can also listen to this unbiblical sermon mp3 of Joel Osteen’s sermon – Doing Business in Deep Waters. This is available from ‘Joel Osteen audio podcast’ in iTunes and it is available on YouTube > http://youtu.be/dTFw227RAVU

Here is the video link for this transcript > http://youtu.be/58s2FKqB44U

[First segment from mp3 - 00:07:06 - 00:08:06]

Chris Rosebrough, “So let’s talk about what we are going to do on today’s episode. We will switch gears and we have got a Joel Osteen update. One of the most convoluted. You see that is the thing with Joel Osteen just when you think it can’t get anymore convoluted than it is you know Joel he takes it to a whole new level of convoluted. I mean he convolutes the convoluted in a convoluted way and so you just got you know convoluted squared and cube kind of stuff going on here.

One of those ones that you know I had to check in with Joel see what his latest offering was and after listening to it I was just you know taking my head and just banging it on the desk and going no, no why does anybody listen to this man I have idea and yet alone so many just basically your grassroots evangelicals would say, ‘Oh yeah Joel Osteen he is our Christian brother. My question is how by what stretch of the imagination is he our Christian brother? I mean there isn’t a biblical passage that he hasn’t twisted and I don’t think the man.  I don’t think he has any concept of what The Bible actually teaches.

Chris Rosebrough, “Moving along….”

[Second segment from mp3 – 00:21:17 - 00:40:20]

My Shiny Teeth and Me

When I am feeling lonely

Sad as I can be
All by myself on an uncharted island
In an endless sea

What makes me happy
Fills me up with glee
Those bones in my jaw!
That don’t have a flaw

My shiny teeth and me

My shiny teeth that twinkle
Just like the stars in space
My shiny teeth that sparkle
Adding beauty to my face

My shiny teeth that glisten
Just like a Christmas tree
You know they walk a mile just to see me smile
Woo!
My shiny teeth and me
(shiny teeth shiny teeth)

Yeah that is right Chip Skylark – My Shiny Teeth. That is our Joel Osteen update music. In case you haven’t been around Fighting for the Faith for very long. Alright so what we are going to be listening to is Joel Osteen. The name of the message by the way, the name of the message is Doing Business in Deep Waters. Watching this it is one of the most convoluted things that I have ever….but pay attention to what he is doing with scripture in this because it is I mean wow….I don’t even know how to describe this.

This is one of the worst twists of the Bible that I have ever seen….of course because Joel he is smiling. He has got those big pearly white teeth and he talks with that Forest Gump kind of southern draw. You are thinking you know this guy is the nicest guy in the world. So you know here I mean this is the kind of thing that anybody other than Joel Osteen tries to pull this off and they will belly flop. It is going to be like a belly flop from the high dive. But somehow he like lands this perfectly and doesn’t even make a splash and you are thinking ‘How does he do this?’

But it is one of those things it is so commonly observed that you just wonder why are there are so many people packing this compact, the former compacts out that are there in Houston and we are talking tens of thousands of people come to see Joel Osteen every single weekend and it is utter pablum. It is like ridiculous pablum like comedy pablum. But by the way you might want to have your Bible open to Psalm 107. So without any further or due here is Joel Osteen and his message entitled Doing Business in Deep Waters. Here we go….”

Joel Osteen, “God bless you. It is always a joy to come into your homes and if you ever in our area. Please stop by and be a part of one of our services. I promise you, you will feel you at home. But thanks so much for tuning in and thank you again for coming out today and I like to start with something funny and I heard about this lady that died and she was standing at the pearly gates and Saint Peter said, ‘You can’t come in yet.

You have to correctly spell a word. She said, ‘What word?’ He said, ‘Any word.’ So she spelled the word love l.o.v.e. He said, ‘Welcome to heaven.’ Then Peter asked if she would take his place for a moment and he instructed. If anyone should come up, just to follow the same procedure,’ and she agreed. In a few minutes she sees her ex husband walking up. She can’t believe it. She says what are you doing here? He said, ‘I had a heart attack. Did I really make it to heaven?’ She said, ‘Not yet you have to correctly spell a word.’ He said, ‘What word? There was a long pause and she said Czechoslovakia.’

Hold up your Bible. Say it like you mean it. This is my Bible. I am what it says I am. I have what it says I have. I can do what it says I can do. Today I will be taught the Word of God….”

Chris Rosebrough, “No you won’t…..”

Joel Osteen, “I boldly confess my mind is alert. My heart is receptive. I will never be the same in Jesus name. God bless you….”

Chris Rosebrough, “Alright do you have your Bible open to Psalm 107? You need to have it there again. Remember the name of the message Doing Business in Deep Waters. Here we go….”

Joel Osteen, “I want to talk to you today about doing business in deep waters.

Chris Rosebrough, “Really okay well what does that mean?”

Joel Osteen, “If you are going to do anything great in life there will be opposition, setbacks, delays, critics and a lot of….”

Chris Rosebrough, “Now this is the funny thing. This is the story that Joel Osteen tells himself and his followers. Oh you do anything great in life, you are going to have setbacks and you are going to have critics and stuff like that. The reason why Joel Osteen has critics is because the guy is a flat out wolf. Because he can’t properly handle God’s Word and what he says is a complete joke.

This isn’t biblical teaching that you know they are hearing there and that is the reason why he has critics, not because he is doing something great. It is because he is a great Bible twister, which is a completely different thing altogether and so the reason why he has critics is because he ain’t teaching the truth.

But see this is the story they tell you, you know God has this big dream that He wants to you know fulfil in you and he is going to put this – he is going to birth it in your heart and of course you do this you are going to be doing business in deep waters and when you are doing business in deep waters – well you are doing some important work out there and you are going to have critics.

You are going to have people that come against you because oh this is the thing that God is trying to do with you because of course, anything that God is doing – Satan has to oppose and so if you believe this you are going to have opposition. You have opposition within the visible church is because this isn’t what The Bible teaches. But I digress….we continue….”

Joel Osteen, “If you are going to do anything great in life there will be opposition, setbacks, delays, critics and a lot of people get discouraged. I think why is this happening to me? It is because you are taking new ground. Because you making progress and the scripture says, (Psalm 107 v 23-24) ‘They that go down to the sea to do business in deep waters will see the wonders of God….’

Chris Rosebrough, “Okay so according to Joel Osteen Psalm 107, the verse…actually it is two verses. Psalm 107 v 23-24 supposedly reads, ‘They that go down to the sea to do business in deep waters will see the wonders of God.’ Now I am going to be taking at look this from the ESV. See if we can make heads or tails of this.

But what we are going to do is we are going to apply our three rules for sound biblical exegesis and they are context, context, context and context. So let’s take a look at this passage and see what it is really saying when we look at it in context. I am going to start at v1….

Psalm 107 v 1-25 (ESV – English Standard Version)

1 Oh, give thanks to the Lord, for He is good!
For His mercy endures forever.
Let the redeemed of the Lord say so,
Whom He has redeemed from the hand of the enemy,
And gathered out of the lands,
From the east and from the west,
From the north and from the south.

They wandered in the wilderness in a desolate way;

They found no city to dwell in.
Hungry and thirsty,
Their soul fainted in them.
Then they cried out to the Lord in their trouble,
And He delivered them out of their distresses.
And He led them forth by the right way,
That they might go to a city for a dwelling place.
Oh, that men would give thanks to the Lord for His goodness,
And for His wonderful works to the children of men!
For He satisfies the longing soul,
And fills the hungry soul with goodness.

10 Those who sat in darkness and in the shadow of death,

Bound in affliction and irons—
11 Because they rebelled against the words of God,
And despised the counsel of the Most High,
12 Therefore He brought down their heart with labour;
They fell down, and there was none to help.
13 Then they cried out to the Lord in their trouble,
And He saved them out of their distresses.
14 He brought them out of darkness and the shadow of death,
And broke their chains in pieces.
15 Oh, that men would give thanks to the Lord for His goodness,
And for His wonderful works to the children of men!
16 For He has broken the gates of bronze,
And cut the bars of iron in two.

17 Fools, because of their transgression,

And because of their iniquities, were afflicted.
18 Their soul abhorred all manner of food,
And they drew near to the gates of death.
19 Then they cried out to the Lord in their trouble,
And He saved them out of their distresses.
20 He sent His word and healed them,
And delivered them from their destructions.
21 Oh, that men would give thanks to the Lord for His goodness,
And for His wonderful works to the children of men!
22 Let them sacrifice the sacrifices of thanksgiving,
And declare His works with rejoicing.

23 Those who go down to the sea in ships,

Who do business on great waters,
24 They see the works of the Lord,
And His wonders in the deep.
25 For He commands and raises the stormy wind,
Which lifts up the waves of the sea.

26 They mount up to the heavens,

They go down again to the depths;
Their soul melts because of trouble.
27 They reel to and fro, and stagger like a drunken man,
And are at their wits’ end.
28 Then they cry out to the Lord in their trouble,
And He brings them out of their distresses.
29 He calms the storm,
So that its waves are still.
30 Then they are glad because they are quiet;
So He guides them to their desired haven.
31 Oh, that men would give thanks to the Lord for His goodness,
And for His wonderful works to the children of men!
32 Let them exalt Him also in the assembly of the people,
And praise Him in the company of the elders.

Now you are going to notice that there is a pattern here in Psalm 107. It talks about how men they wandered in wastes. They were sat in darkness. They were fools and turned away from the LORD and engaged in iniquities and by the time we get to Psalm 107 v 23 the cycle begins again. Describing people who are not righteous, who don’t believe correctly and they see God’s judgement and then they repent and so here it says Psalm 107 v 23….

Psalm 107 v 23-25 (ESV – English Standard Version)

23 Those who go down to the sea in ships,
Who do business on great waters,
24 They see the works of the Lord,
And His wonders in the deep.
25 For He commands and raises the stormy wind,
Which lifts up the waves of the sea.

But Joel Osteen here has done something bizarre with this text. He has completely changed it and so now the passage according to Joel Osteen’s rendering of it is they that go down to the sea to do business in ‘The deep waters will see the wonders of God.’ That is not what this passage says at all. This is absolutely nonsensical convoluted ridiculousness and only Joel Osteen because of his shiny teeth could pull this off without people going you know throwing tomatoes throwed at him which is probably what needs to happen. But we continue….”

Joel Osteen, “When you are in these deep waters you are not praying God please don’t let me face anything big. No you realise when you have big dreams you are going to have big challenges. If you were an average….”

Chris Rosebrough, “What oh man yeah Psalm 107 v 22-23 has nothing to do with you doing business in deep waters and having big challenges….”

Joel Osteen, “If you were an average person, then you would have average problems. But here is the key you are not average. You are not in the shallow waters. God put seeds of greatness in you.”

Chris Rosebrough, “Uh huh and Psalm 107 is all about the seeds of greatness that God put in me. Yeah does the phrase scratching itching ears ring a bell to you?”

Joel Osteen, “He has destined you to leave you a mark on this generation. You cannot expect ordinary problems. You are a history maker. You are a world changer. Well why are these people are talking about….”

Chris Rosebrough, “What if I don’t want to be?”

Joel Osteen, “Well why are these people are talking about me at work. Why are they trying to make me look bad? Listen they don’t talk about average people. They talk about extraordinary people.”

Chris Rosebrough, “Oh man this is like utter ego boosting narcissistic pablum…”

Joel Osteen, “Take it as a compliment. It goes with the territory.”

Chris Rosebrough, “You know Jesus actually told the message that Christians are supposed to proclaim. Yeah it is true, it is in Luke’s version of the great commission. You can find it in Luke 24 and Luke 24 we have these words of Jesus where he says in v46…..

Luke 24 v 46 (ESV – English Standard Version)

46 Then He said to them, “Thus it is written, and thus it was necessary for the Christ to suffer and to rise from the dead the third day, 47 and that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in His name to all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.

I don’t hear repentance and the forgiveness of sins being preached by Joel Osteen down there in Houston. I hear a complete utter ego boosting nonsense. Rather than humbling yourself before the LORD. Somehow the LORD has a message for you to boost your ego and let you know how wonderful and amazing you are….”

Joel Osteen, “Every time I try to move forward I face major challenges. It because you are a major person and you have a major destiny. The enemy would leave you alone if you weren’t a major threat. He wouldn’t bother you if you didn’t have something amazing in your future….”

Chris Rosebrough, “Wow you are a planet shaker man….”

Joel Osteen, “Because you are an extraordinary person, you will face extraordinary challenges. The good news is we serve an extraordinary God. He can get you to where you are supposed to be….”

Chris Rosebrough, “Oh man this reminds me of a particular prophecy found in scripture. If you have your Bible head on over 2 Timothy 3. Let me read this….”

2 Timothy 3 v 1-9 (ESV – English Standard Version)

1 But understand this, that in the last days there will come times of difficulty. For people will be lovers of self, lovers of money, proud, arrogant, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy, heartless, unappeasable, slanderous, without self-control, brutal, not loving good,treacherous, reckless, swollen with conceit, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God,

I…this message we hearing from Joel today well it really reminds me of that what we are warned about in scripture about how people will be in the last days. I mean seriously….”

Joel Osteen, “When you are in the deep waters you are not wasting your time trying to convince everyone to like you. Win over all your critics. Prove to all your family members that you really are okay. Let me give you a newsflash….everybody is not going to like you. Everyone is not going to understand you.

Your friends may not celebrate your success. Your relatives may find fault. Your co-workers may get jealous. Shake it off and run your race. You are doing business in deep waters. You don’t have time to go over in the shallow waters for all that pettiness. You are a history maker. You cannot please every person and please God at the same time. You will either have a few people upset with you or you will have God upset with you. I have learned….”

Chris Rosebrough, “And the scary thing is that those people there think that this is actually what God’s Word teaches and so they are going to actually act on this thinking that they are doing what God wants them to do and believing what God’s wants them to believe. This is phew demonic….”

Joel Osteen, “If you will please God He will take care of your critics. Well Joel they said something about me. I will go and straighten them out. No if that battle is not between you and your God given destiny, it is simply a distraction. You are not supposed to engage in every battle.

You only have so much emotional energy each day. If you are spending that energy thinking about how you can pay somebody back. Calling a friend, ‘Can you believe what they said.’ You are not going to have the energy you need for own dreams. Don’t fight battles that don’t matter. You have got to be selective in how you spend your time. We all love our family. But some family members you have to love them from a distance. Some relatives once a year at the family reunion is good enough….

Chris Rosebrough, “And people are amening this as if this is a word from God. This is just absolutely selfishly demonic…..”

Joel Osteen, “Some relatives once a year at the family reunion is good enough. Go give them a big hug. Tell them how much you love them. Ask God for forgiveness for lying later but….”

Chris Rosebrough, “Yeah first mention of forgiveness and notice it is in a joke….”

Joel Osteen, “You can’t spend all week with uncle Charlie or he will pull you into the shallow waters and get you off course….”

Chris Rosebrough, “Yeah because you are doing business in the deep….”

Joel Osteen, “You love aunt Myrtle. But if you spend too much time with her you are going to be negative, critical, fighting battles that don’t matter. Learn to love them from a distance….”

Chris Rosebrough, “Yeah you know your aunt Myrtle who sits there and opens up The Bible and says, ‘Yeah Joel Osteen he is not teaching you the truth.’ Yeah stay away from her she will drag you into the shallow water….”

Joel Osteen, “And you have to accept the fact that some people are never going to be for you. Treat them with respect. But you don’t need their approval to fulfil your destiny. Don’t get lured over into the shallow waters trying to prove to them who you are. The apostle Paul had people that were trying to tell him his dreams wouldn’t come to pass….”

Chris Rosebrough, “Uh okay that is about all I can handle of that. That one of the worst Bible twists I have ever heard, which kind of leads to the question what was the point of referencing Psalm 107 again?

Because I mean he didn’t tell us anything about what it really meant. We learned nothing about the context of that passage and what that passage really actually says and what we did get well is something that sure is stuck on me. If you know what I mean. So very dangerous stuff, weird reading of scripture – you know you just throw a Bible verse in and start talking about whatever comes to your mind. Yeah that is not biblical preaching or teaching. That is well like I have said already….that is this is absolutely demonic and Satanic what we are hearing from Joel Osteen.

Alright we are up on our first break. If you would like to email me regarding anything you have heard on this edition or any previous editions of Fighting for the Faith you can do so my email address is talkback@fightingforthefaith.com or you can subscribe on Facebook – www.facebook.com/piratechristian or follow me on Twitter. My name there is @piratechristian.

Fighting for the Faith With Chris Rosebrough – Sermon Review: Lack vs. Overflow By Brian Houston, Hillsong

Below is a transcript taken from Chris Rosebrough’s radio show podcast Fighting For The Faith Radio podcast which was originally broadcast on Monday July 2nd 2012, which you can subscribe to on iTunes. I highly recommend you do this if you want to develop discernment. 

You can also listen to this unbiblical sermon mp3 of Brian Houston’s sermon – Lack vs. Overflow. This is available from ‘The Hillsong Church – Brian Houston’ podcast and available on Youtube – http://youtu.be/aEzUdDy9kjM

Here is the video link for this transcript > http://youtu.be/kvhBJiKk3eE

[First Segment – 00:13:34 – 00:14:13]

Chris Rosebrough, “Since it is the Hillsong Conference, it is raging out there in Australia. I feel sorry for you folks in Australia. It is the summer Olympics. Summer heresy Olympics out there in Sydney and Hillsong has got their big annual conference and you know they have got Joyce Meyer, Steven Furtick, and others including Brian Houston.

So what we are going to do for hour number two today, we are going to be reviewing a sermon by Brian Houston entitled Lack vs. Overflow and Louie Giglio is also featured speaker. I mean that guy has drifted badly to say the least.

[Second Segment – 01:14:42 – 01:50:49]

Chris Rosebrough, “Okay we are back. Hour number two of Fighting for the Faith. We are well into it. Sermon review time, we are going to go down under to Australia and listen to a recent sermon released by Brian Houston of Hillsong who is a noted Word of Faith heretic and prosperity preacher and I don’t think it is a well a coincidence that Steven Furtick hangs out with Brian Houston. Just saying you know with people like Phil Pringle and Kong Hee.

Here we go. The good, the bad, the ugly, we review it all here at Fighting for the Faith. We are equal opportunity sermon reviewing service. Today’s prosperity message comes to us via Hillsong in Sydney, Australia. Brian Houston presiding, the name of the prosperity masloration is entitled Lack vs. Overflow and I think we begin in that wonderful Psalm where the LORD is you know my shepherd. I shall not want.

Psalm 23 v 1 (ESV – English Standard Version)

1The Lord is my shepherd; I shall not want.

Everyone has this read at funerals and stuff like that. But did you know it was actually teaching that God wants to give you money. Apparently I had no idea. But we are going to find out how this is the case.

Psalm 23 v 1 (ESV – English Standard Version)

1The Lord is my shepherd; I shall not want.

And again it is significant to note that Steven Furtick is well tonight teaching at Hillsong’s Conference and I think it is perfectly clear where Steven Furtick is now. He is a Word of Faith light prosperity preacher. He is hanging out with people who are just of his ilk. Joyce Meyer, Brian Houston, you know folks like that. I mean is it any coincidence that he was with Phil Pringle and Kong Hee earlier this year? Why he was shilling for money from Genesis 22. No, see that is kind of what these guys are all about. Twisting God’s Word, scratching ears, tickling ears and well not preaching Christ, no preaching about prosperity.

You can be just like him, if you make the right decisions in the valley of decision. Then on the Mountain of Provision God will provide for you. Big time just like He did for….anyway. Let’s kill the music. Without any further or due here is Brian Houston and his sermon entitled Lack vs. Overflow. Here we go….”

Brian Houston, “You know Psalm 30 v 5 says, ‘God’s anger is for a moment. But his favour is for life.’

Psalm 30 v 5 (NKJV – New King James Version)

For His anger is but for a moment,
His favour is for life;

Weeping may endure for a night,
But joy comes in the morning.

Favour is for life, a lot of people think of God in terms of the great majority of God’s attitude to people being anger and every now and then a little glimpse, a little breakthrough of favour. But in actual fact this Psalm says exactly the opposite. It says God’s anger is for a moment. But his favour is for life.

Psalm 30 v 5 (NKJV – New King James Version)

For His anger is but for a moment,
His favour is for life;

It is the will of God for your life to be blessed by the favour of God, of that I have no doubt because our lives are not just about us. It lives are about the purpose of God, our lives are about those things that God is wanting to do in us and through us in Jesus name. So if you come into church tonight with this mindset, this concept, this kind of religious thinking that God is mad and angry with you and waiting to pounce and judge you and every now and then because you weren’t good enough and you have got a little glimpse of God’s favour….”

Chris Rosebrough, “So if you come to church with the idea that God is wrathful. That He is going to judge the living and the dead. Oh you have missed the whole point. No put all that wrath stuff away. God wants to, all He wants to do is bless your socks off and all you have got to do is be obedient and you will yeah uh hmm…..”

Brian Houston, “So if you come into church tonight with this mindset, this concept, this kind of religious thinking that God is mad and angry with you and waiting to pounce and judge you and every now and then because you weren’t good for enough and you have got a little glimpse of God’s favour.

You need to turn that upside down and realise that through Jesus Christ God’s anger is but for a moment, but His favour is for life and it is the will of God to set your life up with His favour. So you can fulfil the promise of God in your life.”

Chris Rosebrough, “Uh see God just wants to bless you with all kinds of favour, so that you can accomplish His purposes. See this is a kinder, gentler gospel than the biblical gospel of repentance and the forgiveness of sins in Jesus name….”

Brian Houston, “You need to turn that upside down and realise that through Jesus Christ God’s anger is but for a moment, but his favour is for life and it is the will of God to set your life up with His favour. So you can fulfil the promise of God in your life and in your home and in your marriage in the name of Jesus Christ.

Psalm 23 the psalmist David declares with faith that the LORD is his shepherd.

Psalm 23 v 1 (NKJV – New King James Version)

1 The Lord is my shepherd;
I shall not want.

That is a determined shall not. I shall not want he says.

Psalm 23 v 2-5 (NKJV – New King James Version)

He makes me to lie down in green pastures;
He leads me beside the still waters.
He restores my soul;
He leads me in the paths of righteousness
For His name’s sake.

Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death,
I will fear no evil;
For You are with me;
Your rod and Your staff, they comfort me.

You prepare a table before me in the presence of my enemies;
You anoint my head with oil;
My cup runs over.

I love that….”

Chris Rosebrough, “Yeah I am sure you do. I am sure you only think that is referring to money.

Psalm 23 v 5-6 (NKJV – New King James Version)

5 My cup runs over.
Surely goodness and mercy shall follow me
All the days of my life;
And I will dwell in the house of the Lord
Forever.

            Psalm 23 v 1, 5, 6 (NKJV – New King James Version)

1 The Lord is my shepherd;
I shall not want.

5 My cup runs over.

All the days of my life….

Favour is for life.

Psalm 23 v 6 (NKJV – New King James Version)

And I will dwell in the house of the Lord
Forever.

And I will dwell…..”

Chris Rosebrough, “Yeah seriously why should we be reading this Psalm at funerals and stuff? This is all about God wanting you to have favour and prosperity and wealth and influence and affluence and you can be at the top of the ponzi scheme just like Brian Houston is!!!

Brian Houston, “Psalm 23 v 6 (NKJV – New King James Version)

And I will dwell in the house of the Lord
Forever.

Psalm 23 v 1, 5

1 I shall not want

5 My cup overflows

[v1 is quoted the NKJV, v5 is quoted from the NIV]

I shall not want. I shall overflow. What do you believe is God’s will for your life? Want or overflow? What do you believe is the most spiritual way to live your life? With an expectation of favour and blessing and overflow, or for a contentment with lack. Because many people glorify lack and spiritualize it and make a doctrine out of it.”

Chris Rosebrough, “This is a false dichotomy and it is based upon a misreading of Psalm 23 and by the way, the way you know he is twisting Psalm 23 is that when you read Psalm 23, it doesn’t actually say anything or set up the dichotomy between lack or provision or abundance or anything like that. Let me read it to you again.

Psalm 23 v 1-4 (ESV – English Standard Version)

1 The Lord is my shepherd; I shall not want.
2 He makes me lie down in green pastures.
He leads me beside still waters.
He restores my soul.
He leads me in paths of righteousness
for his name’s sake.

Even though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death,

Now that doesn’t sound like you know an amazing situation. Quite the contrary…..

Psalm 23 v 4 (ESV – English Standard Version)

I will fear no evil,
for you are with me;
your rod and your staff,

Those are disciplining tools of the shepherd.

Psalm 23 v 4-6 (ESV – English Standard Version) 

They comfort me.

You prepare a table before me
in the presence of my enemies;
you anoint my head with oil;
my cup overflows.
Surely goodness and mercy shall follow me
all the days of my life,
and I shall dwell in the house of the Lord
forever.”

Goodness and mercy are not the same things as well money, and provision, and things like that that. Another clear rule here when you are looking at the scriptures is you always look at clear passages that address the topic and they govern rather than unclear. So here is the idea we are going to, we are going to basically say he is not rightly even setting up the biblical categories. Let me give you passage that talks directly to the issue that Brian Houston is apparently trying to bring up.

Philippians 4 v 10-13 (ESV – English Standard Version)

10 I rejoiced in the Lord greatly that now at length you have revived your concern for me. You were indeed concerned for me, but you had no opportunity. 11 Not that I am speaking of being in need, for I have learned in whatever situation I am to be content. 12 I know how to be brought low, and I know how to abound. In any and every circumstance, I have learned the secret of facing plenty and hunger, abundance and need. 13 I can do all things through him who strengthens me.

Ah okay so you have learned in whatever situation to be content. So The Bible here doesn’t setup a dichotomy and basically says God is only in this life, only going to give you plenty and lots of and lots of monetary stuff. It doesn’t say that. Because if that were the case we would see that in the lives of the apostles, instead the apostle Paul makes it clear that he has learned that in whatever situation that he is content.

Philippians 4 v 12-13 (ESV – English Standard Version)

12 I know how to be brought low, and I know how to abound. In any and every circumstance, I have learned the secret of facing plenty and hunger, abundance and need. 13 I can do all things through him who strengthens me.

He never….nowhere does the apostle say that ‘Listen it is completely contrary to God’s Word and what He wants for you. For you to have a situation in your life where you are in need, where you have a lack, Paul says that he has learned to be content even when he is facing hunger and need.’ See so who are going to trust? The apostle Paul and scripture or Brian Houston who is clearly at this point twisting God’s Word and making it say something that it doesn’t say. We continue….”

Brian Houston, “What do you believe is God’s will for your life? Want or overflow? What do you believe is the most spiritual way to live your life? With an expectation of favour and blessing and overflow, or for a contentment with lack. Because many people glorify lack and spiritualize it and make a doctrine out of it. But to me the great theme of God’s Word is that God wants to bless you with His grace and His favour and with overflow and I believe you should have the raw courage that David had even as he walks through the valley near the shadow of death. Which is one that says…..

Psalm 23 v 1

1 I shall not want….

He sounds pretty determined about that….”

Chris Rosebrough, “Hmm…..that is not what he is talking about. He is not talking about money…..”

Brian Houston, “Psalm 23 v 1, ‘I shall not want.’ There maybe a G.F.C. There maybe things working against me. These maybe dark dull dim days, maybe every reason why I shouldn’t want, but I shall not want. He says….

Psalm 23 v 5

5 My cup runs over

Do you know to want it literally means to diminish, to decrease, to deplete or literally it means to be in lack. To overflow means to replenish….”

Chris Rosebrough, “Oh it sounds like such a biblical sermon since he has taken the time to define lack and overflow…..”

Brian Houston, “To overflow means to replenish, to saturate, to drench that is the spirit of overflow. Literally to enrich, to make abundant…..”

Chris Rosebrough, “Philippians 4 v 11-13 (ESV – English Standard Version)

11 For I have learned in whatever situation I am to be content. 12 I know how to be brought low, and I know how to abound. In any and every circumstance, I have learned the secret of facing plenty and hunger, abundance and need. 13 I can do all things through him who strengthens me.

See Christ will strengthen you even

when you are in a time of need and hunger. Uh hmm….”

Brian Houston, “I just got it in my heart that this year people should believe for a spirit of overflow in your life and overflow goes beyond just even being filled up. Overflow is to saturate, to drench. It is a powerful thought. It is to live in abundance and the tragedy to me is that you can glorify lack as much as you like and so many people are bound by a lack of ideas, a lack of vision, a lack of creativity, a lack of real belief and what God can do.

Perhaps a lack of wisdom, a lack of understanding, lack of judgement – you can live your life feeling like you have a lack of opportunity. You can live your life in lack with money. You can live in lack with resource. But don’t ever think that there is something God glorifying about lack. Because all it is ever doing is inhibiting you from what God has actually called you to do. Your hands are bound because of lack.

Chris Rosebrough, “Wow so people want to inhibit you huh?”

Brian Houston, “It means to diminish a positive. So in other words every young person can have a great education and you see that as a positive, a lack of education is the diminishing of that positive or the diminishing of an opportunity. Proverbs 13 v 23 one of the scriptures that I have talked about many times over the years, because it says

Proverbs 13 v 23

23 There is much food in the fellow ground of the poor.

Literally the uncultivated ground of the poor,

Proverbs 13 v 23 (NKJV – New King James Version)

23 But through lack of justice there waste.

Through lack of opportunity of lack of injustice and you can visit….”

Chris Rosebrough, “Justice and opportunity are two different things. Listen to this….

            Proverbs 13 v 23 (ESV – English Standard Version)

23 The fallow ground of the poor would yield much food,
but it is swept away through injustice.

This is talking about well theft, bad government. Things like that. Evil rulers, injustice. It is not saying lack of opportunity. Oh man….”

Brian Houston, “Through lack of opportunity of lack of injustice and you can visit countries around the world. We just did in South America and you can in Africa and other places where the soil is so fertile and there is so much food or so much potential that stays in the uncultivated ground of the poor. Because of lack of opportunity and that is the thing about lack. It is a depleting or a diminishing of an opportunity….”

Chris Rosebrough, “Now what an earth does real poor people in real third world nations have to do with this sermon?”

Brian Houston, “And so many people have get this contentment about lack and almost this pseudo spirituality about lack….”

Chris Rosebrough, “Hmm….the apostle Paul said he was content even in hunger and need. Because he could do all things through Christ who strengthens him, including get through that. So you are taking a swipe at the apostle Paul? You know better than him?”

Brian Houston, “And so many people have get this contentment about lack and almost this pseudo spirituality about lack as though that is the way to serve God and sadly many people because they don’t have that…..

Psalm 23 v 1, 5

I shall not want

I shall overflow

My cup runs over.

Mindset – they settle for less than God’s intention and by settling for something less than God’s intention then they live inhibited….”

Chris Rosebrough, “So apparently there it is I mean you basically take Psalm 23 and turn it into a Word of Faith mantra that you just keep blurting out and then God has to bless you because you believe that you God wants to give you abundance.”

Brian Houston, “And so many people have get this contentment about lack and almost this pseudo spirituality about lack as though that is the way to serve God and sadly many people because they don’t have that…..

Psalm 23 v 1, 5

I shall not want

I shall overflow

My cup runs over.

Mindset – they settle for less than God’s intention and by settling for something less than God’s intention then they live inhibited. The opportunity for potential. The capacity to do something beyond yourself. To actually make a difference. We can have all the compassion that we want. We can have all of the vision that we like. We can have all of the you know dreams that you can muster. But if it is just held back by lack and you have a faith or a belief that somehow believes that lack is God’s will for you, then all you are going to do is sit there stifled and frustrated about a God given vision.

So why don’t we believe Hillsong church 2012 for a spirit of overflow.

Psalm 23 v 1, 5

1 I shall not want

5My cup overflows

Chris Rosebrough, “Wow you know I…a particular passage of scripture comes to mind and that is actually well 2 Timothy, I would say 2 Timothy 3.

2 Timothy 3 v 1-2 (ESV – English Standard Version)

1 But understand this, that in the last days there will come times of difficulty. For people will be lovers of self,

Steven Furtick…..

            2 Timothy 3 v 2 (ESV – English Standard Version)

2 Lovers of money,

Steven Furtick, Perry Noble, Brian Houston and all the others Word of Faith folks.

            2 Timothy 3 v 2-5 (ESV – English Standard Version)

2 Proud, arrogant, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy, heartless, unappeasable, slanderous, without self-control, brutal, not loving good,treacherous, reckless, swollen with conceit, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God, having the appearance of godliness, but denying its power. Avoid such people.

Yeah I think the apostle Paul was prophesying about men like Steven Furtick and Brian Houston and other Word of Faith heretics. We continue….”

Brian Houston, “Psalm 23 v 5, ‘My cup overflows. My cup runs over.’ I am believing to hear running over type testimonies all this year through of people whose cup is overflowing. One time we looked in that cup and it was like mother hubbard’s cupboard. It may have been bear. But let’s believe that your cup is going to overflow in Jesus name and you are going to be telling such stories of the blessing of God. Because we are not going to make it about ourselves, we are going to make it about what God has called us to do in Jesus name….”

Chris Rosebrough, “Yeah actually that is just double talk. This is nothing but about yourself….”

Brian Houston, “….Let’s believe that your cup is going to overflow in Jesus name and you are going to be telling such stories of the blessing of God. Because we are not going to make it about ourselves, we are going to make it about what God has called us to do in Jesus name….”

Chris Rosebrough, “Oh and your bank account….”

Brian Houston, “So never ever accept the spiritualizing or you know of lack. When it is simply holding lack people’s opportunity to do what God has called them to do in Jesus name. You know….”

Chris Rosebrough, Yeah apparently this makes it Christian. Because all he has to do is tell you something false, scratch your itching ears. Tell you, ‘Oh God wants you to have all kinds of money.’ And then it becomes Christian because he goes, ‘In Jesus name.’ Say wow that is amazing….”

Brian Houston, “You know overflow is such a theme in God’s Word. Such a theme in God’s Word has said in 2 Corinthians 9 v 8, it says….

2 Corinthians 9 v 8 (NKJV – New King James Version)

And God is able to make all grace abound toward you, that you, always having all sufficiency in all things, may have an abundance for every good work.

Chris Rosebrough, “Woah got to be careful here that is a subtle twist. Yeah let me show it to you from a good translation so that you can kind of see what is going on here. Just that an abundance for every good work. That is not exactly what the text says, a subtle twist but watch what it says….

2 Corinthians 9 v 8 (ESV – English Standard Version)

And God is able to make all grace abound to you, so that having all sufficiency in all things at all times,

Notice sufficiency not abundance…..

2 Corinthians 9 v 8 (ESV – English Standard Version)

8 Having all sufficiency in all things at all times, you may abound in every good work.

That you may abound in every good work and that is basically what the Greek says itself too. “Dynatei de ho theos pasan charin perisseusai eis hymas hina en panti pantote pasan autarkeian echontes perisseuēte eis pan ergon agathon

δυνατεῖ δὲ ὁ θεὸς πᾶσαν χάριν περισσεῦσαι εἰς ὑμᾶς ἵνα ἐν παντὶ πάντοτε πᾶσαν αὐτάρκειαν ἔχοντες περισσεύητε εἰς πᾶν ἔργον ἀγαθόν

So the Greek does definitely say this.

2 Corinthians 9 v 8 (ESV – English Standard Version)

8 So that you may abound into every good work.

It doesn’t say abundance for, it says abound in every good work. This is there is a big difference here and that eis pan ergon agathon is way different than what he is saying here. It is a subtle twist and you would miss it if you….I mean that one is so quick that you….if you blink you would miss it. But I think what he is basically trying to say here is oh the reason why God wants to give you an abundance is so that you can you know so that He can provide you with a provision for all the good works and purpose that He has for you.

That is not what the text says. It is that you have sufficiency for…so that you can abound in good works. It is not an abundance for good works. Wow that was a subtle twist…”

2 Corinthians 9 v 8

And God is able to make all grace, all favour abound toward you, that you, always having all sufficiency in all things, may have an abundance for every good work.

And that is the whole thing about abundance. That is a for or there is a because, there is a reason to it….”

Chris Rosebrough, “No that is not what the Greek text says. It is abound into, not abundance for, but abound in good works. Seriously the conjunction is the thing that makes it or breaks it here.”

Brian Houston, “That is because there is a good work that God has called you to do. 2 Corinthians 9 v 8 talks about what God is able to do. But in fact the scripture is filled with what God is able to do. We sing God is able. Ephesians 3 v 20 it says….

Ephesians 3 v 20 (ESV – English Standard Version)

20 Now to Him who is able to do exceedingly abundantly above all that we ask or think….”

Chris Rosebrough, “Notice every passage ripped out of context. Just strung together like pearls to weave together this theology. This is not based upon any text in context and even what he did with Psalm 23 is an abuse of the text. Eisegeting into it basically monetary provision….”

Brian Houston, “Ephesians 3 v 20 (ESV – English Standard Version)

20 Now to Him who is able to do exceedingly abundantly above all that we ask or think….

And they are all Bible words when it talks about exceeding, going beyond. It is a Bible word. 2 Peter 1 v 4 talks about his exceeding great promises.

2 Peter 1 v 4 (NKJV – New King James Version)

By which have been given to us exceedingly great and precious promises….

Exceeding do you have that kind of heart towards God. That he doesn’t just want to live up to your faith, live up to your dream. He wants to take you exceedingly, abundantly above what you could ever ask or think….”

Chris Rosebrough, “Yeah again that is talking about stuff in the eschaton. Oh man this is just one litany of prosperity heresy wow…..”

Brian Houston, “Man you know let’s not even have that hope that one day God will answer our prayers. Let’s cancel all that stuff and start living with an expectation of a God who is able to do exceedingly, His great exceeding precious promises….”

Chris Rosebrough, “Yeah live with an expectation. Man there is no humble, no fear of God, you know no petitions. It is oh I expect God to deliver on this….”

Brian Houston, “Man you know let’s not even have that hope that one day God will answer our prayers. Let’s cancel all that stuff and start living with an expectation of a God who is able to do exceedingly, His great exceeding and precious promises the Word talks about. Have we got that scripture that talks about the promise of God? Listen to it is 2 Peter 1 v 4…..

2 Peter 1 v 4 (NKJV – New King James Version)

By which have been given to us exceedingly great and precious promises….

Do you know I just feel it in my heart to lift people’s spirits….”

Chris Rosebrough, “Yeah you are going to read part of a sentence. By the way v4 begins with the word by which, which tells you there is a bigger context going on. Don’t you think you might want to take a look at the bigger context? Yeah I always you need to when somebody is taking verses out of context, pause put them back in context. Even if it is me, especially if it is me…..

2 Peter 1 v 1 (ESV – English Standard Version)

1 Simeon Peter, a servant and apostle of Jesus Christ,

To those who have obtained a faith of equal standing with ours by the righteousness of our God and Saviour Jesus Christ:

2 Peter 1 v 2 (ESV – English Standard Version)

May grace and peace be multiplied to you in the knowledge of God and of Jesus our Lord.

Confirm Your Calling and Election

His divine power has granted to us all things that pertain to life and godliness, through the knowledge of him who called us to his own glory and excellence, by which he has granted to us his precious and very great promises, so that through them you may become partakers of the divine nature, having escaped from the corruption that is in the world because of sinful desire.

For this very reason, make every effort to supplement your faith with virtue, and virtue with knowledge, and knowledge with self-control, and self-control with steadfastness, and steadfastness with godliness,and godliness with brotherly affection, and brotherly affection with love.

 For if these qualities are yours and are increasing, they keep you from being ineffective or unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Well the great promises have nothing to do with wealth or abundance there….

Brian Houston, “Do you know I just feel it in my heart to lift people’s spirits and to lift people’s faith and lift your expectation of God. Because I want to encourage you to be thinking of God in terms of exceedingly great and precious promises. You know we are standing on the promises of God our king.

To the middle ages let the doo doo ring. Standing on the promises of God, standing standing on the promises. I am standing the promises of God. Wow if we start thinking by the way. I reckon someone ought to start singing in a new song about the promise of God.

Because the promise of God is something yes you can stand on it. Because it is exceeding, it is great and it is precious and that is the Spirit of overflow. That is the Spirit of God toward our lives in Jesus name. Exceeding, abundant, it is life abundant that the Word talks about. Above you are above and not beneath. You are the head and not the tail. Friends this might just sound like good old pump you up faith type preaching and I hope it is because my spirit….

Chris Rosebrough, “Yeah no this is flat out heresy….”

Brian Houston, “Friends this might just sound like good old pump you up faith type preaching and I hope it is because my spirit is all about wanting to pump people in Jesus name and get you believing in the exceeding promises of God….”

Chris Rosebrough, “False Jesus – false gospel, twisting of God’s Word. None of this is true. This is not the gospel.”

Brian Houston, “You know it is so easy to have an ordinary faith where we just hang back and we go to church and we know God does good stuff and we get blessed by other people testimony. But it is time to step up and start believing God for his….oh here is someone I know. That we can start believing God chi chong for his….come on stand up Jay….stand up….alright now I am your pastor. I am a man of God. Hit me….”

Chris Rosebrough, “No he is not a man of God….”

Brian Houston, “Oh come on. I didn’t hurt him. I know I didn’t hurt him. He is made. He is like a rock unbelievable. If I hurt anything it is my wrist that is all. It is a constant theme of the scripture. That whole idea of God’s abundance, God’s overflow and the reason that people you know get nervous about it is because they think through eyes of selfishness and they presume immediately we are talking greed.

They presume when thinking about self, and ourselves and laying up treasures on earth. Forgetting what we are all about. Laying up treasures in heaven and seeing the will of God on earth fulfilled, all about the eternal purpose of God in heaven in Jesus name. So don’t be afraid to believe God….”

Chris Rosebrough, “Notice this is all double talk. So if you are challenging him and what he is saying, it is because well you are just greedy and yet he is the one who is flat out greedy….”

Brian Houston, “So don’t be afraid to believe God. Have a raw faith. That you will have the wisdom that will find life and obtain favour, because he who finds wisdom obtains the favour of the LORD in Jesus name. Praise God you the know the spirit of overflow and abundance it really is just a great example of God’s supernatural ability…..”

Chris Rosebrough, “A spirit of abundance. Yeah it doesn’t matter how many times you say it. It is still not a biblical teaching the way you are teaching it.

Brian Houston, “Praise God you the know the spirit of overflow and abundance it really is just a great example of God’s supernatural ability. Well God is able to do. Yeah never underestimate what God is able to do.”

Chris Rosebrough, “Yeah I understand God is omnipotent. So yeah He is able to do a lot of things. He spoke the entire universe into existence in six days. God is capable of some pretty amazing things. No problem with that whatsoever.

Just because He is able to do something, doesn’t mean that it is His will to do so. You seem to think that God is going to be impressed by your ability to believe He is capable of big things. You are supposed to be preaching repentance and the forgiveness of sins in Jesus name because that is the big promise we are all to be hanging onto and proclaiming.”

Brian Houston, “Sometimes you can look back on life at a miracle and you think, ‘Wow where did that come from?’ Because it is just exceeding and abundant and above what you could you ever have asked or thought. I have never been to Israel. Bobbie had never been to Israel and a few years ago some of you would know that one time we got this formal invitation from the government of Israel to come to Israel and not only a formal invitation, but air fares and good air fares by the way.

Oh no all our airlines and we got there and we didn’t even have to go through the security. We are talking Israel. We are taking through the special diplomatic type queue and we are put in a nice car and taken through and put in a City of David hotel room right in the middle of the city, where we looked down over the Mount of Olives which is so significant for believers and it is like, ‘what are we doing here?’

And then we spent of time with a few other believers that were brought in and key people from around the world. But what I found out after a while was that every other person that was there had been to Israel sixty or seventy times and it brought all of these people into Israel and had some kind of an engagement and connection with Israel. But Bobbie and I had never been to Israel in our lives. As a matter of fact I have never been since either and the next day we find ourselves going through security into Knesset, into the parliament. The Israel parliament….”

Chris Rosebrough, “I have know idea what this has to do with The Bible!

Brian Houston, “….Bobbie and I had never been to Israel in our lives. As a matter of fact I have never been since either and the next day we find ourselves going through security into Knesset, into the parliament. The Israel parliament, into the cabinet room where we sat with Ariel Sharon who was then prime minister president of Israel with Ehud who was the next guy.

The next president right beside him and we talked about all sorts of things and Sharon talked to Bobbie and I about Australia and about how Australia had stood by Israel and about the light horsemen and about some of Australia’s war history and it is like, ‘What are we doing here?’ And the next day we went out to the sea of Galilee….”

Chris Rosebrough, “Yeah what are you preaching this for?”

Brian Houston, “….Bobbie and I had never been to Israel in our lives. As a matter of fact I have never been since either and the next day we find ourselves going through security into Knesset, into the parliament. The Israel parliament, into the cabinet room where we sat with Ariel Sharon who was then prime minister president of Israel with Ehud who was the next guy.

The next president right beside him and we talked about all sorts of things and Sharon talked to Bobbie and I about Australia and about how Australia had stood by Israel and about the light horsemen and about some of Australia’s war history and it is like, ‘What are we doing here?’

And the next day we went out to the sea of Galilee where we met who was now the current prime minister Benjamin Netanyahu and we were sitting and conversing with him and having a cup of coffee and he takes us and shows us a dock and we are out there and we are on a pier in the sea of Galilee on a little row boat full of American tourists with yellow caps on going by singing shout to the LORD all the earth let us sing.

True story and it is like what are we doing here? And it went on like that for two days or so and after two days we went back into the airport and we are taken through – avoided security again. Helped onto the airplane, got on the airplane and to this day I don’t even quite know what it was about. But…..”

Chris Rosebrough, “Then why are you preaching about it?”

Brian Houston, “But our God is able to do exceedingly abundant and above everything you could ever ask or think. Because that is the God we love and serve in Jesus name….”

Chris Rosebrough, “Oh right so there is thank God it was short. But for as short as it was tightly packed with really bad narcissistic money grubbing completely wrong theology – the prosperity heresy and who is Steven Furtick hanging out with today? Oh yeah that is right Brian Houston. He is teaching at Hillsong.

Yeah it is pretty clear that Steven Furtick has cast his lot with these guys and they aren’t teaching the truth. Even when the biblical text is about Jesus they don’t preach Jesus. Strange huh and yet they tell everybody it is all about them wanting people to meet Jesus. How can they meet Him if you don’t preach Him. It is a fair question to ask.

Alright we are at the end of another edition of Fighting for the Faith. If you would like to hear me regarding anything you have heard on this edition or any previous editions of Fighting for the Faith. You can do so my email address is talkback@fightingforthefaith.com or you can ask to be my friend on Facebook. It is facebook.com/piratechristian or you can follow me on Twitter. My name there is @piratechristian. Until tomorrow may God richly bless you in the grace and mercy won by Jesus Christ and His vicarious death on the cross for all of your sins amen.

Fighting for the Faith With Chris Rosebrough – Brian Houston Turns Liabilities Into Opportunities

[Second segment - 00:39:04 - 01:00:25]

Chris Rosebrough, “We continue…..time for a money grubbing televangelist update and Brian Houston being one of them.

Opportunities (Let’s Make Lots of Money)”

I have got the brains, you’ve got the looks
Let’s make lots of money
You have got the brawn, I have got the brains
Let’s make lots of -

I have had enough of scheming and messing around with jerks
My car is parked outside, I’m afraid it doesn’t work
I am looking for a partner, someone who gets things fixed
Ask yourself this question: Do you want to be rich?

I have got the brains, you’ve got the looks
Let’s make lots of money
You have got the brawn, I have got the brains
Let’s make lots of money

Yeah alright enough of that, alright so it is all about making money, at least that is what it is with the money grubbing televangelists. Now Brian Houston of Hillsong out there in Sydney Australia, he is one of these guys who well he is a TBN televangelist and so you know money is a very important aspect of what he does there. But that is not going to be the focus of what we are going to be listening to.

We are going to be listening to a quote, at least a portion of a sermon recently preaching by him called Turning Limitation into Opportunity and of course I have no idea what this has to do with sound biblical doctrine, Christian theology, repentance and the forgiveness of sins in Jesus name, or His vicarious penal substitutionary death on the cross.

It has nothing to do with that and in fact I – this is just one of those times where Brian Houston again I am not even sure what the point of him quoting a biblical passage is because where in scripture, that you are aware of does it teach us listen we need to turn limitations into quote you know quote opportunities?

I am not familiar with those passages but boy this is a message that sure would make people feel good about themselves really, I mean really really good and inspire them to take you know their things in their life so they feel our limitations and turn them into opportunities. So but so see the thing is that is somebody a Christian by taking limitations and turning it into opportunities?

No, what if you spend your entire life never able to flip your limitations into opportunities and you spend your entire life and then die – somebody who is limited. Do you go to hell? I mean you know what shall we make of that? I mean I think of those passages in scripture. You know where you know the apostle Paul writing under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit says to you know to slaves, people who are in they don’t even own themselves, they are owned by somebody else.

Ephesians 6 v 5 (ESV – English Standard Version)

Bondservants, obey your earthly masters with fear and trembling, with a sincere heart, as you would Christ,

Slaves obey your masters. Talk about a limitation. He didn’t talk about the opportunity of you know name it and claim it and win your freedom through your positive attitude and things and you know those passages don’t exist. Although it does say you know if you can make yourself free do so you can. But you know in the mean time ‘Slaves obey your masters.’ And you might end up dying a slave. Not that I am condoning slavery. But you get what I saying here.

This doesn’t seem to be well even part and parcel of the major biblical emphasis that we get when we read the entire counsel of the Word of God. But here is Brian Houston – let’s let him make the case we will see if this is even a biblical teaching. Here we go…..

Brian Houston, “Judges 3 v 15 very important. This message is called Turning Limitation into Opportunity. Turning limitation into Opportunity…..

Judges 3 v 15 (NKJV – New King James Version)

15 But when the children of Israel cried out to the Lord,

Chris Rosebrough, “Now this is Judges 3 v 15 that he is having us read….”

Judges 3 v 15 (NKJV – New King James Version)

15 But when the children of Israel cried out to the Lord, the Lord raised up a deliverer for them: Ehud…..

He is a significant man…..

Judges 3 v 15 (NKJV – New King James Version)

15 The son of Gera….

Chris Rosebrough, “Judges 3 this is a limitation turning into an opportunity. What we might have to spend a couple of segments on this sermon.

Judges 3 v 15 (NKJV – New King James Version)

15 The Benjamite, a left-handed man. By him the children of Israel sent tribute to Eglon king of Moab.

What is significant Ehud the son of Gera the Benjamite, a left handed man, all the left hander’s in the room stand to your feet. Notice how many there are, you see I want to talk to you people because we I am a left handed person myself, we are a marginalised minority group. But I do want to make these comments that will prove to you that left handers are a marginalised group when it comes to the way the world works.

So for example the way that the paper that you write on works, it works for a right hander because you write from this side of the page to that side which means that your hand basically goes across the page, a left hander our hand goes so that we smudge the work behind us and you think that we are just untidy or not neat….”

Chris Rosebrough, “Alright let’s yeah not that I am trying to jump the gun here. But let’s take a look at this Judges 3 passage to see if we can figure out what an earth he is doing here. I bet we can kind of deconstruct this and figure out where he is going with this. Because one thing I have learned from televangelists is they have a really bad habit of telegraphing their punches. So apparently so Judges 3, now he was reading v15 about a left handed Benjamite by the name of Ehud.

Let’s take a look and see if okay so the what will be the limitation there? Oh yeah he was left handed. Huh oh yeah because we all know how limiting being left handed is, I mean you might as well cut off your left hand in order to function in a right handed world. Right I mean that is a limitation. It is practically a handicap. So we are going to answer the question here is Judges 3 the story of Ehud, a story about overcoming limitations and turning them into opportunities.

Well let’s take a look at what is going on here. We will start in v12. The reason why is because we want to get context. Judges 3 v 12, here is what it says….

Judges 3 v 12 (ESV – English Standard Version)

12 And the people of Israel again did what was evil in the sight of the Lord, and the Lord strengthened Eglon the king of Moab against Israel, because they had done what was evil in the sight of the Lord.

Agh so the people of Israel did what was evil. You can read into that and think idolatry. They were worshipping other gods and things like that so God punishes them and puts them into the hands of you know other nations and in this case it is Eglon the king of Moab.

Judges 3 v 13-15 (ESV – English Standard Version)

13 He gathered to himself the Ammonites and the Amalekites, and went and defeated Israel. And they took possession of the city of palms. 14 And the people of Israel served Eglon the king of Moab eighteen years.15 Then the people of Israel cried out to the Lord, and the Lord raised up for them a deliverer, Ehud, the son of Gera, the Benjaminite, a left-handed man.

Now just to make this clear, I am pretty sure that being left handed wasn’t a handicap or a limitation. In fact I don’t think scripture describes it as that way. But let’s see what happens here, so Ehud…..

Judges 3 v 15-22 (ESV – English Standard Version)

15 The people of Israel sent tribute by him to Eglon the king of Moab. 16 And Ehud made for himself a sword with two edges, a cubitin length, and he bound it on his right thigh under his clothes. 17 And he presented the tribute to Eglon king of Moab. Now Eglon was a very fat man. 18 And when Ehud had finished presenting the tribute, he sent away the people who carried the tribute. 19 But he himself turned back at the idols near Gilgal and said, “I have a secret message for you, O king.” And he commanded, “Silence.” And all his attendants went out from his presence.

20 And Ehud came to him as he was sitting alone in his cool roof chamber. And Ehud said, “I have a message from God for you.” And he arose from his seat. 21 And Ehud reached with his left hand, took the sword from his right thigh, and thrust it into his belly.22 And the hilt also went in after the blade, and the fat closed over the blade, for he did not pull the sword out of his belly; and the dung came out.

Yeah this is what the text says.

Judges 3 v 23 (ESV – English Standard Version)

23 Then Ehud went out into the porch and closed the doors of the roof chamber behind him and locked them.

Uh hmm this is not a story about overcoming limitations and turning them into an opportunity. This is a story of sinful people, being sold in slavery, whom God then sends a deliverer to rescue them. That is what this story is about. It is not about overcoming limitations. It is about being delivered.

Okay so already we are this is not good. So it is pretty clear what well Brian Houston is doing here. He is equating left handedness with a limitation. But that then could be your opportunity to be used by God apparently something like that.

Brian Houston, “So for example the way that the paper that you write on works, it works for a right hander because you write from this side of the page to that side which means that your hand basically goes across the page, a left hander our hand goes so that we smudge the work behind us and you think that we are just untidy or not neat.

But the fact is we have to hold our hand over the things that we have just written and also our view is blocked of what we have written. I believe for left handers we should have learnt it and be quite encouraged to be able to write on this way on the page and it would be up to everybody else to….

How many left handers here have noticed that if ever you are given a receipt for your card. Your credit or your debit card and you have to sign it. That almost ninety nine point nine percent of the time they will put it up on the counter. But they will put it on the angle for a right handed person to sign it…..”

Chris Rosebrough, “This is so sad I mean oh Brian Houston has been suffering from a left handed handicap his entire time! He has been limited!”

Brian Houston, “Ninety nine point nine percent of the time and you just have to get used to turning around to the left hand and signing it with the left hand. How many people have noticed that presumption if you are a left hander and can identify with exactly what I am saying?

When I worked as a young guy I worked during Bible college and just after Bible college, when I was getting started in Youth Ministry and so on as a roofer. I used to put corrugated iron on roofs and so for the valleys and so I would have to cut the corrugated iron and the thing is my boss never ever did give me left handed tins nuts….”

Chris Rosebrough, “Oh no oh I hope you figured out how to turn that into an opportunity….”

Brian Houston, “We sure didn’t have anything electrical to cut the corrugated iron with. So this iron it is you know sizable. It is long and if I was cutting an angle, then I would be using right handed snips in my left hand which is already difficult and then you would have to hold this part of what you were doing and as you go you had to hold it in front of you and so basically curl it around you and so that you were working in the blind and sort of corrugated iron. I mean it is sharp. It has got pointy ends on it and so on….”

Chris Rosebrough, “Oh no did you get a paper cut?”

Brian Houston, “Anything could have happened. But that is the life of a left hander. That is just some of the stuff. We are limited. We are limited it seems…..”

Chris Rosebrough, “Oh yeah oh no, oh man this is bringing a tear to my eye. Not really but….”

Brian Houston, “An opportunity because of our defect. When it comes to eating….”

Chris Rosebrough, “Oh he is really going to continue on this theme. I don’t even think the people at Hillsong really think this is a real limitation.”

Brian Houston, “You can guarantee that they are going to put your glass or your cup on the right handers side.”

Chris Rosebrough, “Oh no and you probably are not capable of moving it to the left hand side. Yeah oh terrible…..”

Brian Houston, “And they will put the bread on the right handers side and then you put your glass where it needs to be as a left hander on the left side and then the person next to you gets annoyed with you because they don’t know which is your glass and which is their glass…..”

Chris Rosebrough, “Oh this is such a terrible limitation….”

Brian Houston, “And well I just think it is time there was a change. That is what I think and it is good to me to know that to my knowledge there is no specific individual to whom The Bible says “A man right handed.” The person who was esteemed above anyone else in the entire scripture for the hand that they used primarily was Ehud, a man left handed you see so….”

Chris Rosebrough, “Uh hmm…..”

Brian Houston, “Why am I telling you all of that?”

Chris Rosebrough, “Yeah why?”

Brian Houston, “Because it is a fun way of telling you really that in some way or another all of us have our limitation…..”

Chris Rosebrough, “Sorry I am choking on air. Really? So the story of Ehud is a story about overcoming limitations. Oh man I am going to lose it….”

Brian Houston, “In 1 Samuel 17 tells one of The Bible’s most famous stories and of course it is the story where David confronted Goliath.”

Chris Rosebrough, “Oh boy this is by the way this is gonna, we are going to hear two different versions of how to twist the same passage here tonight.”

Brian Houston, “1 Samuel 17. So Jessie who was David’s father had a whole load of sons. His oldest son was called Eliab. His next oldest son was called Amminadab, the next one was called Shimea and then going through to the youngest whose name was David and the older sons they all were with Saul and in Saul’s armies, where as David spent time at home. But his dad sent him amongst other things to take ten cheeses.

That always makes me smile. Specifically there were ten cheeses that he had to take to his brothers on the battlefield and I guess you would have had mozzarella cheese, you would have had some goat cheese, he would have had some cheddar sliced cheese. He would have all the kind of cheese that we know. But when he got there. I am just putting part of the story in, you probably know already. But getting to the point that we need to get to….”

Chris Rosebrough, “Uh hmm….yeah please do….”

Brian Houston, “When he got through, there was quite a commotion going on. Because the Philistines were taunting God’s people and so that is the background when you get to 1 Samuel 17 v 24. It says in v23…..

1 Samuel 17 v 23-25 (NKJV – New King James Version)

23 Then as he talked with them, there was the champion, the Philistine of Gath, Goliath by name, coming up from the armies of the Philistines; and he spoke according to the same words. So David heard them. 24 And all the men of Israel, when they saw the man, fled from him and were dreadfully afraid. 25 So the men of Israel said, “Have you seen this man who has come up? Surely he has come up to defy Israel;

They were all dreadfully afraid The Bible says.

1 Samuel 17 v 25 (NKJV – New King James Version)

25 And it shall be that the man who kills him the king will enrich with great riches, will give him his daughter, and give his father’s house exemption from taxes in Israel.”

That is quite a promise right there…..

1 Samuel 17 v 26 (NKJV – New King James Version)

26 Then David spoke to the men who stood by him, saying, “What shall be done for the man who kills this Philistine and takes away the reproach from Israel? For who is this uncircumcised….

He says and then it goes on in the next verse….”

Chris Rosebrough, “So what was David’s limitation? I am very familiar with this story. I am not familiar with David’s quote limitation.”

Brian Houston, “He says and then it goes on in the next verse….”

Chris Rosebrough, “Was it that he was young? That he was you know a teenager? I mean what was his limitation? He wasn’t left handed was he?”

Brian Houston, “He says and then it goes on in the next verse….

1 Samuel 17 v 27 (NKJV – New King James Version)

27 And the people answered him in this manner, saying, “So shall it be done for the man who kills him

So that is where the story starts. But basically what the story is about is that in a world of limitation…..”

Chris Rosebrough, “The story of David and Goliath is about you know in a world of limitation we continue….”

Brian Houston, “Obviously the Philistines were huge and you know Goliath himself was just a giant of a man and not only that but there was just a lot of disdain from them and a lot of taunting from them and….”

Chris Rosebrough, “Oh yeah that taunting just limited Israel. Oh yeah of course it is  terrible. I mean those poor Israelites. They were limited in stature and they were limited by the taunting of the Philistines. How is this so popular as quote biblical preaching? It is nonsense….”

Brian Houston’s, “All of Saul’s men were fearful. But David comes in and he has a different spirit. You see in a world of limitation and this is what I want you to think about….”

Chris Rosebrough, “Yeah in a world of limitation….”

Brian Houston, “….This is what I want you to think about…..”

Chris Rosebrough, “Yep I am thinking…..”

Brian Houston, “David had an eye for opportunity….”

Chris Rosebrough, “Oh yeah in a world of limitation David had an eye for opportunity and you go what?”

Brian Houston, “Most people in a world of opportunity and I am speaking about now and today. Most people in a world of opportunity are blinded by limitation. We tend to see the limitation always before we see the opportunity. We see the barriers before we see the opportunity….”

Chris Rosebrough, “Is that a sin? What are you talking about?”

Brian Houston, “I don’t believe that Hillsong church has ever been, is now or will ever be called to be the kind of church who is ruled by our limitation. But we will be the kind….”

Chris Rosebrough, “Oh yeah you don’t want to be ruled by your….what does that even mean?

Brian Houston, “I don’t believe that Hillsong church has ever been, is now or will ever be called to be the kind of church who is ruled by our limitation. But we will be the kind of church that is challenging and committed to defying the odds….”

Chris Rosebrough, “Oh yeah you are defying the odds….”

Brian Houston, “I don’t believe that Hillsong church has ever been, is now or will ever be called to be the kind of church who is ruled by our limitation. But we will be the kind of church that is challenging and committed to defying the odds by being totally committed to opportunity….”

Chris Rosebrough, “Oh well good that you have got that out. So I don’t know what any of this means. In a world of limitations, David saw the opportunities. Ehud you know the left handed guy, he saw the opportunity as a result that was created in his world of limitations because he was left handed. This is utter nonsense and then of Hillsong church they don’t want to be defined by their limitations.

No they want to be defined by their commitment to opportunities. Uh huh weird that they are not known for their commitment to faithfully handling God’s Word and preaching Christ from all of scripture and proclaiming repentance and the forgiveness of sins in Jesus name to all nations.

No they are not known for that. In fact if they were known for that would be well too constricting. It would be very you know limiting and they don’t want to be defined by their limitations. By the way that kind of preaching, oh you will fill staves with that stuff. With the preaching of the biblical gospel not so much. It is a stumbling block. Foolishness to Greeks and well a stumbling block to Jews.

But the power of the gospel, well that is the power of God unto salvation. The biblical gospel saves people to eternal life. That message makes them you know out there looking for opportunities to seize and not be defined by their limitations all the while they are heading to hell.

What did you think? I would love to get your feedback. If you would like to email me regarding anything you have heard on this edition or any previous editions of Fighting for the Faith you can do so. My email address is talkback@figthtingforthefaith.com or you can subscribe on Facebook – www.facebook.com/piratechristian or you can follow me on Twitter. My name there is @piratechristian.

Fighting for the Faith With Chris Rosebrough – Brian Houston Twists Psalm 23

Below is a transcript taken from Chris Rosebrough’s radio show podcast Fighting For The Faith Radio podcast which was originally broadcast on Monday September 9th 2013, which you can subscribe to on iTunes. I highly recommend you do this if you want to develop discernment. 

You can also listen to this unbiblical sermon mp3 of Brian Houston’s sermon – How Lack in any Area of Life Can Diminish or Limit Your Potential. This is available from ‘The Hillsong Church – Brian Houston’ podcast.

Here is the video link for this transcript > http://youtu.be/X5APHsZ2wBM

[First segment – 00:04:45 – 00:05:28]

Chris Rosebrough, “Today we have also got a Brian Houston update and since Brian Houston falls under kind of the general money grubbing televangelist types we will be playing money music regarding him, when we get to him. But have you ever heard anybody twist Psalm 23? This is kind of a first for me. I was going back through the archives today to see if I have covered anyone really doing a shakedown of Psalm 23. But we will take a look at Brian Houston’s twisting of that particular passage today. It is not very good….”

[Second segment - 00:46:59 - 00:58:59]

Chris Rosebrough, “Alright I am going to kind of shake things up here. We will do our money grubbing televangelist update that would be Brian Houston down there in Hillsong. In order to do that we have got to do this though…..

Dr. Teeth – Money Song

Don’t want no loving
Don’t want no kissing
Don’t want no gal to call me honey

Don’t want my name in the hall of fame
Just want a big fat pile of money

Give me that all mighty dollar for that lettuce every hollar
Give me bucket full of duckets
Let me walk around and waller
In Mazuma el donaro, wanna be a millionairo
Give me money money money money money money

I want that green amunition that’s the stuff for which I’m wishing
Fill my closets with deposits
I am a demon at addition
Give me shackels, give me pesos, let me see their smiling faceos
Money money money money money money

I wanna get me a suit
That’s made out of loot
and whistle to wear it in green

I have got that monetary eye that is being like King Midas
want that golden touch is what I need

Give me that old double eagle
Want that tender that is legal
and financially substantially any sum I can envegel
I want to live in regal splendour
With that loving legal tender
Money money money money money money

I am a greenback collector
I am a paper bill inspector
I am a savage for that cabage
Man to me it’s golden necter

Pour that filthy looter on me
Spread those lovin’ germs upon me
Money money money money money money

And if they ever plant trees of E Plurbus Unum
I wanna be the guy sent out to prune ‘em
Oh give me money!

Chris Rosebrough, “There we go Dr. Teeth and Money, Money, Money. Now I went through the archives today of Fighting of the Faith and I could not find, not that it has never occurred. I just I don’t think I have ever covered somebody actually twisting Psalm 23. You all familiar with Psalm 23?

Psalm 23 v 1-6 (ESV – English Standard Version)

1The Lord is my shepherd; I shall not want.
He makes me lie down in green pastures.
He leads me beside still waters.
He restores my soul.
He leads me in paths of righteousness

for his name’s sake.

Even though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death,
I will fear no evil,
for you are with me;
your rod and your staff,
they comfort me.

You prepare a table before me
in the presence of my enemies;
you anoint my head with oil;
my cup overflows.
Surely goodness and mercy shall follow me
all the days of my life,
and I shall dwell in the house of the Lord
forever.

We have all heard this Psalm before. But I bet you have never anybody twisting it well the way you are about to hear Brian Houston of Hillsong down there in Australia twisting it. Here is Brian Houston explaining to us how lack in any area of life can diminish or limit our potential. Uh hmm here we go…..

Brian Houston, “I believe want makes potential smaller. Want lack it makes God’s purposes in your life smaller and David he makes a commitment there. The commitment is, ‘I shall not want….’

Chris Rosebrough, “No in Psalm 23 – David is not making a commitment saying, ‘I shall not want…”

Brian Houston, “God is my shepherd with the LORD leading me. I shall not want.”

Chris Rosebrough, “Yeah see that means God is going to make you healthy, wealthy and wise right? No…..

Psalm 23 v 1-6 (ESV – English Standard Version)

1The Lord is my shepherd; I shall not want.
He makes me lie down in green pastures.

I don’t know if you all have ever seen shepherds shepherding sheep. But the one thing I have noticed about sheep is that they don’t usually wear diamond rings or drive Mercedes Benz and things like that. So when David saw you know writes the Psalm….

Psalm 23 v 1-6 (ESV – English Standard Version)

1The Lord is my shepherd; I shall not want.

He is not talking about making sure, ‘Yeah I am making a commitment here. I am not going to be in lack. I am going to have all kinds of bling and things. That is not what he is saying…..”

Brian Houston, “He says….

Psalm 23 v 5

You prepare a table before me
in the presence of my enemies.
You anoint my head with oil;
my cup runs over.

Two contrasting concepts, one is want or lack. The other is overflow.

Psalm 23 v 5

5My cup runs over.

And what is David’s commitment his commitment…..

Chris Rosebrough, “No David is not making a commitment in Psalm 23….”

Brian Houston, “And what is David’s commitment? His commitment is….

Psalm 23 v 1 & 5 (NKJV – New International Version)

1 I shall not want.

5 My cup runs over.

Chris Rosebrough, “Yes this is how a money grubbing televangelist would well predictably twist this passage. To somehow make this is about David making a commitment to not have lack in his life and you need to make that commitment as well. We will talk about this in just a second. But I want him to spin this out just a little bit more….”

Brian Houston, “I shall not lack. My cup overflows. My cup overflows. I shall not want. My cup overflows, which do you think is the will of God for people’s lives? Lack or overflow…..”

Chris Rosebrough, “Which is the will of God for people’s lives? Lack or overflow? Uh hmm Luke 16 you know isn’t it weird that he just throws out this question without actually you know grounding this properly in a right understanding of biblical texts. Because Psalm 23 is not David saying, ‘I am making a commitment to not have lack and I am going to have overflow.’ What it is talking about there, God is our shepherd. The LORD is our shepherd. He is going to care for us and give us everything that we need and it also says that,

Psalm 23 v 5 (NKJV – New King James Version)

5 ‘Yea though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death

I will fear no evil

Okay that is see Psalm 23 is not a promise of prosperity. It is not a promise of you overcoming lack. That is not what this text is about. Luke 16 v 19, I wonder how somebody like Brian Houston out there in Hillsong. Again he is a money grubbing televangelist type down there in Australia, what he would do with Luke 16 starting at v19. Now pay close attention. See who has, who is suffering from lack and who is experiencing abundance, his cup is overflowing if you would…..

Luke 16 v 19 (ESV – English Standard Version)

19 “There was a rich man who was clothed in purple and fine linen and who feasted sumptuously every day.

Didn’t have any lack did he?

             Luke 16 v 20-30 (ESV – English Standard Version)

20 And at his gate was laid a poor man named Lazarus, covered with sores, 21 who desired to be fed with what fell from the rich man’s table. Moreover, even the dogs came and licked his sores.

Well alright so we have got a story of abundance and we have got a story of lack here. You know Lazarus is lacking. He is lacking food, he is lacking health, he is lacking all kinds of things. Okay and then in v22 it says he died and….

Luke 16 v 22-31 (ESV – English Standard Version)

22 The poor man died and was carried by the angels to Abraham’s side. The rich man also died and was buried, 23 and in Hades, being in torment, he lifted up his eyes and saw Abraham far off and Lazarus at his side.

Uh oh wait a second here. That poor man if it is really God’s will for Him to have abundance in this life. As if somehow that is what God, it is all about you being prosperous and not having lack you know.

Psalm 23 v 1 (ESV – English Standard Version)

The LORD is my shepherd; I shall not want.

I am making a commitment to not have any want. You know Lazarus here he had nothing but want while he was on earth. But you know what he had that the rich man didn’t have? Faith he trusted in Yahweh for the forgiveness of his sins and for his salvation. Because he trusted Yahweh, he was wealthy even though by earthly appearances he was a complete and abject failure who suffered from lack. Right so here we go. So here we go…..

Luke 16 v 22-31 (ESV – English Standard Version)

22 The poor man died and was carried by the angels to Abraham’s side.

And the rich man he is in torment and he sees Lazarus with Abraham.

Luke 16 v 22-24 (ESV – English Standard Version)

22 The rich man also died and was buried, 23 and in Hades, being in torment, he lifted up his eyes and saw Abraham far off and Lazarus at his side.24 And he called out, ‘Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus to dip the end of his finger in water and cool my tongue, for I am in anguish in this flame.’

It gives you a picture of what hell is like.

Luke 16 v 25 (ESV – English Standard Version)

25 But Abraham said, ‘Child, remember that you in your lifetime received your good things,….

Your cup ranneth over right?

Luke 16 v 25-31 (ESV – English Standard Version)

25And Lazarus in like manner bad things; but now he is comforted here, and you are in anguish. 26 And besides all this, between us and you a great chasm has been fixed, in order that those who would pass from here to you may not be able, and none may cross from there to us.’27 And he said, ‘Then I beg you, father, to send him to my father’s house— 28 for I have five brothers—so that he may warn them, lest they also come into this place of torment.’ 29 But Abraham said, ‘They have Moses and the Prophets; let them hear them.’ 30 And he said, ‘No, father Abraham, but if someone goes to them from the dead, they will repent.’ 31 He said to him, ‘If they do not hear Moses and the Prophets, neither will they be convinced if someone should rise from the dead.’”

So don’t think for a second that the scriptures teach, ‘Oh God it is His will all the time for you to have nothing but prosperity and no lack in your life.’ You might be suffering immensely here in this life time. But don’t think for a second God has abandoned you, He hasn’t. The LORD is your shepherd. You shall not want.

He will care for you. He has promised to care for you to meet your needs and in the next life the abundance, the heavenly banquet feast is all yours. Repent and trust in Him for the forgiveness of your sins and don’t twist the scriptures to make them say these types of things that they do not say. Let’s listen a little bit more to Brian Houston….

Brian Houston, “What which do you have expectation for in your life? The lack or overflow. You see lack has such a hold of people’s lives and don’t have a one concept…..”

Chris Rosebrough, “I thought sin had a hold of people’s lives not lack….”

Brian Houston, “Don’t have a one dimensional concept of lack. Lack could be a lack of resources or a lack of finances. But it might be a lack of wisdom. It could be a lack of judgement. It could be a lack of confidence. It could be a lack of self-esteem….”

Chris Rosebrough, “It could be lack of understanding right biblical hermeneutics….”

Brian Houston, “It could be a lack of self-esteem….”

Chris Rosebrough, “Do you lack self-esteem, oh man you don’t want to have that. It is God’s will for you to have abundant self-esteem. It is nonsense….”

Brian Houston, “For some people lack is a lack of ideas, a lack of creativity. Lack it could be a perceived lack of talent….”

Chris Rosebrough, “A lack of ideas and creativity. Oh no what is happening to the world?”

Brian Houston, “Lack it could be a perceived lack of talent. Lack comes in many ways. But what it does is it diminishes, it decreases and I don’t believe for one second…..”

Chris Rosebrough, “Yeah notice it is lack doing this not sin. This is a false gospel through and through….”

Brian Houston, “I don’t believe for one second it is the will of God for your life, for you to live your life in lack. I pray we have the same spirit that David has that recognizes God’s leadership, God’s shepherding in our lives and out from that we have that firm commitment, ‘I shall not want. I shall overflow. I shall not want. I shall overflow.’”

Chris Rosebrough, “Oh man so there you go. You got the idea. I mean talk about he is heading off on the wrong foot. Psalm 23 is not a great prosperity gospel passage. If the only way you can come to that conclusion is by twisting it, only focusing on certain portions of it and then engaging in that kind of hermeneutical nonsense. Moving along….”

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