Fighting for the Faith With Chris Rosebrough – TD Jakes Slams Preachers of LA

[Segment One - 00:03:28 - 00:04:17]

Chris Rosebrough, “And then with that template in mind we will switch gears after the break and we will listen to a TD Jakes doing the same thing while he is trying to distance himself. No joke TD Jakes is trying to distance himself from that new oxygen reality based television show. Like preachers of LA or something like that and oh what a mess that is. So yeah just but the idea here is that the Patricia King gang template then is this exact same template that TD Jakes engages in – same misuse of scripture, same false teaching. Just TD Jakes has better chops than than the Patricia King gang for sure.

[Segment Two – 00:47:21 - 01:02:57]

Chris Rosebrough, “Alright we are back. Warning listening to Fighting for the Faith could cause you to become supremely dissatisfied with your church especially if your pastor is telling you that you need to step out in faith and sow a seed offering. Make it hurt you know. Moving along….

Time for a money grubbing televangelist update TD Jakes….

Dr. Teeth – Money Song

Don’t want no loving
Don’t want no kissing
Don’t want no gal to call me honey

Don’t want my name in the hall of fame
Just want a big fat pile of money

Give me that all mighty dollar for that lettuce every hollar
Give me bucket full of duckets
Let me walk around and waller
In Mazuma el donaro, wanna be a millionairo
Give me money money money money money money

I want that green amunition that’s the stuff for which I’m wishing
Fill my closets with deposits
I am a demon at addition
Give me shackels, give me pesos, let me see their smiling faceos
Money money money money money money

I wanna get me a suit
That’s made out of loot
and whistle to wear it in green

I have got that monetary eye that is being like King Midas
want that golden touch is what I need

Give me that old double eagle
Want that tender that is legal
and financially substantially any sum I can envegel
I want to live in regal splendour
With that loving legal tender
Money money money money money money

I am a greenback collector
I am a paper bill inspector
I am a savage for that cabage
Man to me it’s golden necter

Pour that filthy looter on me
Spread those lovin’ germs upon me
Money money money money money money

And if they ever plant trees of E Plurbus Unum
I wanna be the guy sent out to prune ‘em
Oh give me money!

Yeah there we go – Dr. Teeth and money money money. Now what you are going to hear in just a second is TD Jakes complaining. TD Jakes complaining and taking shots at that new reality TV show ‘The Preachers of LA,’ and if you haven’t seen the well the preview for The Preachers of LA…oh man it is just an absolute abomination. I mean these are guys, you have got guys who literally drive around in Bentley’s, Ferrari’s, and you know live in these ginormous homes. They have memberships at expensive country clubs and you know it is all about the money.

In fact one of them is the guy is shacking up. One of the preachers of LA is literally shacking up with his girlfriend and she has to say to him that you know ‘We are not going to have anymore kids until you marry me…’ kind of thing. I mean it is absolutely ridiculous. In fact what I probably should do is play for you a little bit of the audio from the premiere on YouTube of The Preachers of LA so you know what TD Jakes is griping about. But here listen in….”

[Plays video from YouTube]

Bishop Ron Gibson, “My name is Bishop Ron Gibson….”

Bishop Clarence McClendon, “I am Bishop Clarence McClendon….”

Deitrick Haddon, “My name is Deitrick Haddon….”

Wayne Chaney, “I am Wayne Chaney….”

Chris Rosebrough, “These are the guys and you can’t see it. They showing these guys with these Bentley’s, these huge houses…..”

Bishop Jay Haizlip, “My name is Jay Haizlip….”

Bishop Noel Jones, “My name is Noel Jones….”

Chris Rosebrough, “Oh man I wish I could see this. I mean seriously it is like watching a premiere for lifestyles of the rich and famous….”

[plays audio – music plays]

Chris Rosebrough, “Talk about bling and cars that is a Roll’s Royce….”

Bishop Clarence McClendon, “The Bible says that I wish above all things that you would prosper and be in health even as your soul prospers. I believe that….”

Chris Rosebrough, “Yeah I am sure you do. How much do you think that suit cost? Yeah what about fifteen grand?”

[plays audio]

Bishop Ron Gibson, “P diddy Jay-Z, they are not the only ones who should be driving Ferrari’s and living in large houses…..”

Jay Haizlip, “The Bible says that those among us should reap from us. That is implying that the preacher is to be taken care of….”

Chris Rosebrough, “Yeah taken care of like you know making that his wallet is well padded you know to the point of gazillions of dollars….”

Bishop Noel Jones, “I like being successful….”

Bishop Clarence McClendon, “Security is a necessary part of what we do…”

Chris Rosebrough, “Yeah I…security that is like security entourage. I don’t even think the president has that much security….”

[plays audio]

Pastor Wayne Chaney, “Being a pastor is very dangerous, because you have to be perfect at all times….”

Bishop Noel Jones, “People put you up on a pedestal that you can’t live on. Pastors are people just like everybody else…..”

Dietrich Haddon, “It is all about truth for me from this point on. The truth about my baby out of wedlock. The truth about my divorce it happened. There is nothing I can do about that. I am a pastor, but at the end of the day I am a man.”

Chris Rosebrough, “Uh huh I am a pastor, but at the end of the day I am a man. Sounds like you are not qualified biblically to be a pastor….”

Bishop Noel Jones, “Does it ever get to a place where it really is not about love. But it is about winning….”

Chris Rosebrough, “Now you have got some sort of marital spat going on here…..”

[plays audio]

Woman, “Winning what? Winning a man or a relationship?

Bishop Noel Jones, “No winning me….”

Woman, “You are not a prize….”

Bishop Noel Jones, “I am a prize…..”

Woman, “Let’s get that straight….”

Bishop Noel Jones, “Maybe I don’t love you as much as you love me….”

Woman, “Maybe you don’t and maybe I don’t love you as much as you think I love you….”

Chris Rosebrough, “Oh man. How is it that anybody thinks this is Christianity?”

Pastor Wayne Chaney, “I am trying my best to balance it all and just when you think you have managed….”

Chris Rosebrough, “Now this guy is having you know a conversation with his wife….”

Pastor Wayne Chaney, “I just can’t do this man….”

Woman, “If we plan on….”

Chris Rosebrough, “Now listen to this. This gal is having a conversation with one of the pastors on The Preachers of LA. Listen to what she says so that they are in their really expensive you know really, really nice house and listen to what she says….”

Woman, “If we plan on having more children. I want to be married. We have more than a relationship like I am a part of your congregation. I am not, well don’t pastor me.”

Chris Rosebrough, “Yeah if you want to have anymore children with me, then you better get married to me. What has happened to the church? Now so here is my theory, alright so that you know what it is that you are about to hear. Here is my theory. I think that TD Jakes watched the premiere of The Preachers of LA and decided that this is getting way too close to home. I mean what these guys are doing is basically if you were a magician. Okay, let me put it this way.

If you are a magician The Preachers of LA is like to magicians showing somebody how the magic trick is done. You know so these preachers, these televangelists and those who buy into the Word of Faith heresy – the one thing that these preachers have been really good about is not letting people see where the money is going.

You know to the Ferrari, the Bentley, the Rolls Royce, the you know and the super mansions. So here is the deal TD Jakes probably watched this and went ‘What you can’t show them where the money is going…’ and so now he knows he is in trouble. Because he has got to find a way to you know set himself apart, while all the while TD Jakes is one of the best fleecers out there.

So what you are going to hear and the audio is not that great on this. I apologize. I tried cleaning it up but somebody recorded it off their television. So it is going to sound a little bit tinny. But this is you are going to hear TD Jakes literally doing the same thing that we heard Clarice do. Okay all the while trying to separate himself and distinguish himself from the preachers of LA. Because you know this isn’t about TD Jakes getting money. No, no, no he wants people to step out in faith and experience miracles and stuff. This isn’t about him. Uh huh yeah wait until you hear this. Hang on here we go…. ”

TD Jakes, “Your best seed, even if it is not what you planned to give. Even if it is not what you expected to give. I want you to get your best seed in your hand. You watching over the internet? I challenge you right now to do what you couldn’t do before. The word of the Lord has been preached in this place today. This is an opportunity for you to respond to the word. The word doesn’t work if you don’t respond to it…..”

Chris Rosebrough, “The word doesn’t work if you don’t respond to it. So he wants to give you an opportunity to respond to the word that was preached by sending in money…..”

TD Jakes, “You have got to respond to the word. You have got to take action. You can’t just lay there in the same old bed you were in and suck up this word and be who you were before. Your actions prove that you heard the word of God….”

Chris Rosebrough, “So your actions prove that you have heard the word of God. That means send in money. Uh huh….”

TD Jakes, “I want you to respond and the reason that you are logged on to this broadcast. Somebody is late for their own service. You could not walk away from this message because the Holy Spirit is speaking directly challenging your limitations. I rebuke it now in the name of Jesus. Some of you are moving in your life now. But your business is bound. Your company is bound. Your career is bound….”

Chris Rosebrough, “Your career, your business, your money. It is all bound. But the way you unbind it is by sending money to TD Jakes.”

TD Jakes, “Your products are not moving. Your stuff is not selling. I rebuke that paralytic condition of your finances in the name of Jesus. Your paralysis will be broken today in the name of Jesus. I challenge you to stretch where you couldn’t stretch before….”

Chris Rosebrough, “Yeah that is right stretch where you couldn’t stretch before. Make a large cheque. Lots of lots of zeros. You know that is going to show God that you mean business right and send it to TD Jakes. Uh huh here at the Potters House – Dallas, Texas….”

TD Jakes, “I challenge you to stretch where you couldn’t stretch before and do what you couldn’t do before. I challenge you right now to get your best seed and….”

Chris Rosebrough, “Yeah give your best seed….”

TD Jakes, “I challenge you to stretch where you couldn’t stretch before and do what you couldn’t do before. I challenge you right now to get your best seed and respond to this word like you mean it and respond to this word like you believe it and God will open up the windows of heaven and pour you out a blessing you will not have room enough to receive. Now….”

Chris Rosebrough, “Yeah so God is going to bless you once you send the cheque to TD Jakes. Yeah just hang on it gets better…..”

TD Jakes, “Now you have been watching that junk on TV and I want to tell you right now. Not one dime of what you are sowing right now will buy my suit. I want you to know my car is paid for. I want you to know I got my house on my own….”

Chris Rosebrough, “Alright so, okay so yeah you wear some pretty snappy clothes there TD. So my question, okay so where is the money going to go then? Because he is going to go on and make the case that you know that the mortgage is paid for there at The Potters House. Uh hmm and you know he has got all this money and he is one of the wealthiest people out there right.

Oh but not a single dime is going to go to him. Really can we have an accounting firm confirm that for us please? You know so not one penny is going to go for buying his suit and all this kind of stuff and so where it is it going to go? Oh I forgot this is all about you showing God you know and stretching in faith so that God can open up the floodgates of heaven. I mean TD Jakes is not going to benefit from a dime of what you are sending in. Oh no not at all. But this is all for you so that you can experience God’s blessing which of course comes with a huge price tag….”

TD Jakes, “I want you to know I am not bling bling and I am not changing banks. I had money when I came to Dallas and I plan to have some when I leave. You did not buy what I have got. I had it when I came here. You know I had it when I came here. The devil is a liar. I have sold enough books and produced enough movies. I don’t need your offering to pay for this little slimy suit. So I rebuke that spirit in the name of Jesus Christ. We are going to build the kingdom of God like we have always built the kingdom of God. I am not from LA. I am from Dallas….”

Chris Rosebrough, “Uh hmm….yeah I am not from LA. I am from Dallas. Well yeah it doesn’t matter what city you are in. The word of faith heresy is still a heresy and no God does not demand that people send money to a televangelist TD Jakes or any other in order to earn a blessing or to prove to Him that they are stepping out in faith.

So the template is the same as what we heard from Clarice. It is a false teaching. It is a twisting of God’s word and a fleecing of Christ’s sheep and here TD Jakes oh I guess those preachers in LA should never have let everybody know where the money is going and how they are living because now it is going to hurt business for TD Jakes.

Right so he has got to find a way to distinguish himself from that particular crowd. While all the while he is preaching the same word of faith heresy that they are preaching. Send in your money and God is going to bless it. Stretch out in faith to prove to God that you believe Him and make it hurt. Make the cheque big. See how does Jesus say it? (Matthew 7 v 18) A bad tree can’t bear good fruit now can it?”

Alright we are up on our second break. If you would like to email me regarding anything you have heard on this edition or any previous editions of Fighting for the Faith you can do so. My email address is talkback@fightingforthefaith.com or you can subscribe on Facebook – www.facebook.com/piratechristian or follow me on Twitter. My name there is @piratechristian.

Fighting for the Faith With Chris Rosebrough – TD Jakes Bizarre View and Misuse of Scripture

[First segment on mp3 - 00:06:03 – 00:06:47]

Below is a transcript taken from Chris Rosebrough’s radio show podcast Fighting For The Faith Radio podcast which was originally broadcast on Wednesday October 11th 2013, which you can subscribe to on iTunes. I highly recommend you do this if you want to develop discernment. 

You can also listen to this unbiblical sermon from TD Jakes – Your Day is not Over – part 1. This is available from iTBN – Potter’s Touch website > http://www.itbn.org/index/detail/lib/Networks/sublib/TBN/ec/tyY3Q0ZToiBKYczrEXeUfoomjBNpmJqk#ooid=tyY3Q0ZToiBKYczrEXeUfoomjBNpmJqk

Here is the video link for this transcript > http://youtu.be/5VnqK3bZTW0

Chris Rosebrough, “Then we are going to take a hard left turn into bizarro world. We are going to do a TD Jakes money grubbing televangelist update and you know kind of ask the question what does TD Jakes teach about what the purpose of the Bible is and you know particular portions of it.

You kind of have to hear this to get what I am saying. So we will be listening to eight minutes of a message delivered by TD Jakes entitled Your Day is Not Over and it is just kind of the introduction to this message that he is giving and it is way out there. But it fits with a lot of the stuff we have been playing recently where people somehow totally miss the entire point of scripture.

[Second Segment on mp3 – 00:13:04 - 00:38:31]

Okay I warned you that we were going to be doing well a kind of abrupt left turn and since we are going to doing a money grubbing televangelist update I think it is important that we…I warned you that we are going to be making these abrupt turns today. Very eclectic programme and since we are changing gears just get ready for the exact opposite of what you just heard and to introduce our next segment here is Dr. Teeth….

Dr. Teeth – Money Song

Don’t want no loving
Don’t want no kissing
Don’t want no gal to call me honey

Don’t want my name in the hall of fame
Just want a big fat pile of money

Give me that all mighty dollar for that lettuce every hollar
Give me bucket full of duckets
Let me walk around and waller
In Mazuma el donaro, wanna be a millionairo
Give me money money money money money money

I want that green amunition that’s the stuff for which I’m wishing
Fill my closets with deposits
I am a demon at addition
Give me shackels, give me pesos, let me see their smiling faceos
Money money money money money money

I wanna get me a suit
That’s made out of loot
and whistle to wear it in green

I have got that monetary eye that is being like King Midas
want that golden touch is what I need

Give me that old double eagle
Want that tender that is legal
and financially substantially any sum I can envegel
I want to live in regal splendour
With that loving legal tender
Money money money money money money

I am a greenback collector
I am a paper bill inspector
I am a savage for that cabage
Man to me it’s golden necter

Pour that filthy looter on me
Spread those lovin’ germs upon me
Money money money money money money

And if they ever plant trees of E Plurbus Unum
I wanna be the guy sent out to prune ‘em
Oh give me money!

Alright there we go Dr. Teeth and Money, Money, Money. That is our money grubbing televangelist update music. Now what you are about to hear is a message from TD Jakes and the name of the message is Your Day is Not Over and this is just the lead into the sermon. But already you can tell that the trap is baited. That is probably a right way of putting it. Based upon his view of what the purpose of scripture is and you know what he is going to do with it.

So what you are going to hear is some hermeneutical gymnastics done by a man who is probably one of the most gifted communicators on the planet and unfortunately to go with his gift of communication he doesn’t also have an equal gift of the right handling of God’s Word. In fact quite the opposite. So without any further or due here is TD Jakes to introduce this message of his entitled Your Day is Not Over. We are paying attention now specifically keying in what is his view of scripture and notice how handles it. Here we go….”

TD Jakes, “May God bless you on this particular day as He has never blessed you before. I just believe Him for your day and if you don’t mind I pray for your day today that God would just drift and bless you in a supernatural way. I am excited because I have an opportunity to share a word with you that maybe contradictory to everything that you see going on in your life.

You may feel like you miss your chance and you messed up and you blew it. That your day is over you know you are wrong. This message says your day is not over God has a plan for you, a comeback a turnaround, a moment where he brings equilibrium and stability to that adversity in your life. Your day is not over. Take a look at this….”

Chris Rosebrough, “What? Okay not sure what he is doing there. But this is kind of again you get some dream destiny, some major purpose, some and your day is not over. You can accomplish it kind of a thing and we have heard this message a thousand different ways from Tuesday in the seeker driven movement. In the charismatic movement, the new apostolic reformation you know, Word of Faith I mean it is all over the place – except for historic orthodox Christianity. Here we go….”

TD Jakes, “Ecclesiastes the great thinker. The great writer, the great sage identifies a very unique association between purpose and times….”

Chris Rosebrough, “Ecclesiastes he sounds like a train wreck there. Ecclesiastes so apparently in Ecclesiastes it describes a unique connection between purpose and time. Hmm…..”

TD Jakes, “He says there is a time and season for every purpose under heaven….”

Chris Rosebrough, “Yeah….”

TD Jakes, “There is a time and a season for every purpose under heaven. In other words time is born with the twin called purpose….”

Chris Rosebrough, “In other words time is born with the called purpose. The text that he is referring to by the way is a very familiar passage. You familiar with that song for everything turn there is a season. Turn you know yeah it is from Ecclesiastes 3. Listen carefully….

Ecclesiastes 3 v 1-8 (English Standard Version)

1 For everything there is a season, and a time for every matter under heaven:

2 a time to be born, and a time to die;
a time to plant, and a time to pluck up what is planted;
3 a time to kill, and a time to heal;
a time to break down, and a time to build up;
4 a time to weep, and a time to laugh;
a time to mourn, and a time to dance;
5 a time to cast away stones, and a time to gather stones together;
a time to embrace, and a time to refrain from embracing;
6 a time to seek, and a time to lose;
a time to keep, and a time to cast away;
7 a time to tear, and a time to sew;
a time to keep silence, and a time to speak;
8 a time to love, and a time to hate;
a time for war, and a time for peace.

So when you put that passage back in context it is not saying what he is saying. He is just making reference to it and hasn’t actually read the passage and now he is making this weird statement. Let me back this up again so you can hear it because this then forms the foundation for his launching off point from here. So we continue here we go….”

TD Jakes, “There is a time and a season for every purpose under heaven. In other words time is born with the twin called purpose and it is a waste of time to extend days without purpose….”

Chris Rosebrough, “Yeah that is not what Ecclesiastes 3 says!”

TD Jakes, “God gives us days then for purpose. The Psalmist David said teach….”

Chris Rosebrough, “Did you see how he did that? Well there you go

Ecclesiastes 3 v 1 is all about who knew that see there is a time for purpose. That is what he did with this and so notice he makes a reference to the text. Kind of fools around with the text, makes a statement and then builds on the statement and now we are to a conclusion that is actually not in the text itself. But this isn’t the main part of what I want to focus on. Let me just back up just a little and then we will keep going forward. Notice pay attention to what he thinks the purpose of scripture is as we go through this sound bite of his.”

TD Jakes, “The Psalmist David said teach me to number my days O God that I may know how frail I am. Teach me to count my days to have birthdays and weeks and months. So that I can realise that I am temporal. That I have a limit to how long I can meander, to stop me from wandering, to give me focus, to give me tenacity, and commitment and resilience. You don’t learn that at first. It takes a while to number your days. I will guarantee you will waste a few of them. Before you begin to appreciate I only have a certain amount and that becomes important.

Dates are important. Let us give us some sort of reference as to where we are in regard to accomplishment of purpose. I wasn’t feeling too good the other day and I said something to my wife and my wife is adamant about this and I said I am not feeling too good. I want to take a Advil or something and she said you know I just look for anything that says Advil and swallow it. She started snatching, ‘No no that has an expiration date.’ I would have never known it because I wouldn’t have checked the date. I just swallowed the pill. She said, ‘No it is only good to this day and it is this date over here and you shouldn’t take it past this date. If that is true about medicine, then you must also realise it is true about life.’

Chris Rosebrough, “None of the biblical authors had access to Advil or drugs that had a particular use by date. So I don’t know I am sorry Ecclesiastes 3 has nothing to do with Advil and medicines that have an expiration date and so now apparently not as a principle here that you have got to apply to yourself. We continue….”

TD Jakes, “Not only through the metaphor I discussed, but from the scriptures itself you have an expiration date….”

Chris Rosebrough, “Yeah it is called the day that I die….”

TD Jakes, “If you are going to fulfil your purpose, you have to fulfil it within a certain window of time.”

Chris Rosebrough, “Yeah that time when you know you are still breathing. Again Ecclesiastes 3 doesn’t teach anything about me having a purpose and that you know that there is a time twin thing going on with it.”

TD Jakes, “Time, purpose, purpose, time, purpose, purpose, time. So the enemy of this world doesn’t have to kill you, if he disassociates your sense of purpose from time.

Chris Rosebrough, “Ah wow that clever devil, who knew….”

TD Jakes, “Just renders you inoperable. The Advil was still there, but it had not been used in time. [Laughs]”

Chris Rosebrough, “Yeah that was a little demonic laughter wasn’t it? Let me back that up.”

[Play s clip of TD Jakes laughing]

Chris Rosebrough, “Yeah that ultimately creeped me out there….”

TD Jakes, “There are people in this room who are oblivious to purpose and time. But there are many of us who were born with the sense of urgency that we put here to do something. We knew it many times.”

Chris Rosebrough, “Oh boy how important you must be….”

TD Jakes, “There are people in this room who are oblivious to purpose and time. But there are many of us who were born with the sense of urgency that we put here to do something. We knew it many times as children. We knew it even in our foolishness. We knew it even in our wildness. We knew it even in our predicament. We knew it even in our propensity to procrastinate.

We still knew that we were put here to do something. That knowledge is what pulls you up out of the gutter of your own human debauchery, it stops you. Not that you are any better than anyone else. It is just that you sense there is something higher calling you beyond your human proclivities to wince….”

Chris Rosebrough, “A sense uh hmm…..”

TD Jakes, “You say I have got to do something, sometimes you don’t even know what it is. You just know you have got to do something. Sometimes you don’t”

Chris Rosebrough, “Yeah you have got to figure out what that something is though you better ask God to tell you – you know through speaking to you through a whisper, a still small voice or something right. What is this theology? And how it is it that this has come to reign as the core theology in evangelicalism. This isn’t what The Bible teaches at all….”

TD Jakes, “You say I have got to do something, sometimes you don’t even know what it is. You just know you have got to do something. Sometimes you don’t know where you are going, you just know where you have got to go. I don’t know where I am going, but I can’t stay here. I don’t know who I am. But I have figured out who I am not. This is….somebody knows what I am talking about.”

Chris Rosebrough, “No it is not me….”

TD Jakes, “For this task God has selected Joshua. Now Moses to me is the mighty pastor of The Old Testament. There is none like him. He is a mighty prophet. He is a mighty pastor. He is selected to lead the wondering sheep of Israel through the wilderness of confusion….”

Chris Rosebrough, “Through the wilderness of confusion. Notice he is already allegorizing the wilderness here. Hmm….okay so Moses is set to lead the people through the wilderness of confusion and he is kind of setting up the story of Joshua here. Pay attention to the details as to why God according to TD Jakes isn’t going to allow Moses to be the one to lead the people of Israel into the promised land. Listen to what he does….”

TD Jakes, “For this task God has selected Joshua. Now Moses to me is the mighty pastor of The Old Testament. There is none like him. He is a mighty prophet. He is a mighty pastor. He is selected to lead the wondering sheep of Israel through the wilderness of confusion detoxing them from their servitude, bringing them into an absoluteness of sonship. It took forty years for them to begin to recognize you are not owned, but owners. Yeah…”

Chris Rosebrough, “Yeah which passage of scripture says that the children of Israel had to realise they weren’t owned, but owners. I am not familiar with any of those passages….”

TD Jakes, “Yeah an entire generation had to die out because they were born into an owned situation and they were being translated into an owning situation and when you have been owned sometimes it is hard for your mind to recognize that you have transitioned from being the property to the property owner. It took about forty years a lot of wondering, a lot of dying and now God said, ‘Moses you….’”

Chris Rosebrough, “Pause here. Remember our principle that we used earlier this week. The idea that scripture interprets scripture, that being the case – what is the reason given in the New Testament as to why the children of Israel died in the wilderness? Was it because they failed to make the transition mentally from being owned to being owners? Is that what the New Testament says? Well Jude v5 makes this clear. Writing under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit….

Jude 5

Now I want to remind you, although you once fully knew it, that Jesus, who saved a people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed those who did not believe.

Yeah that is right they were destroyed because of unbelief. Not because they wondering through the wilderness of confusion, having a difficult time making the transition from going from being owned to being owners. So there is a lot of bad theology packed in here. But I am going to back this up just a hair so that you can then hear the reason why according to TD Jakes Moses wasn’t the one to lead the children of Israel into the promised land. We continue….”

TD Jakes, “For this task God has selected Joshua. Now Moses to me is the mighty pastor of The Old Testament. There is none like him. He is a mighty prophet. He is a mighty pastor. He is selected to lead the wondering sheep of Israel through the wilderness of confusion detoxing them from their servitude, bringing them into an absoluteness of sonship.

It took forty years for them to begin to recognize you are not owned, but owners. An entire generation had to die out because they were born into an owned situation and they were being translated into an owning situation and when you have been owned sometimes it is hard for your mind to recognize that you have transitioned from being the property to the property owner. It took about forty years a lot of wondering, a lot of dying and now God said, ‘Moses you were good to bring them to this point. But now that they are owning and not being owned I need Joshua, because Joshua is a fighter.”

Chris Rosebrough, “Uh huh do you remember that passage from the Old Testament where God says to Moses you have done a great job but let me play the quote so you can hear it again. I mean does”

TD Jakes, “God said, ‘Moses you were good to bring them to this point. But now that they are owning and not being owned I need Joshua, because Joshua is a fighter.”

Chris Rosebrough, “Hmm….do you remember that passage? Are you familiar with it? I mean where God says to Moses, ‘Hey listen now that they are owning rather than being owned. Hey listen I need Joshua to lead the people of Israel into the promised land because He is a fighter and you are not.’ Do you remember where that is? Second Hesitations chapter 86 I think you know something like that. It is not in there. That passage isn’t in The Bible at all. TD Jakes just made it up. Just literally just made it up. That dialogue doesn’t exist.

But there is a passage that does explain why Moses isn’t the one leading the children of Israel into the promised land. You can actually find it in The Old Testament. It is found in the book of Numbers. That is right Numbers 20. I will start at v1….

Numbers 20 v 1-13 (ESV – English Standard Version)

1 And the people of Israel, the whole congregation, came into the wilderness of Zin in the first month, and the people stayed in Kadesh. And Miriam died there and was buried there. Now there was no water for the congregation. And they assembled themselves together against Moses and against Aaron. And the people quarreled with Moses and said, “Would that we had perished when our brothers perished before the Lord! Why have you brought the assembly of the Lord into this wilderness, that we should die here, both we and our cattle? And why have you made us come up out of Egypt to bring us to this evil place? It is no place for grain or figs or vines or pomegranates, and there is no water to drink.” Then Moses and Aaron went from the presence of the assembly to the entrance of the tent of meeting and fell on their faces. And the glory of the Lord appeared to them, and the Lord spoke to Moses, saying, “Take the staff, and assemble the congregation, you and Aaron your brother, and tell the rock before their eyes to yield its water. So you shall bring water out of the rock for them and give drink to the congregation and their cattle.” And Moses took the staff from before the Lord, as he commanded him.

10 Then Moses and Aaron gathered the assembly together before the rock, and he said to them, “Hear now, you rebels: shall we bring water for you out of this rock?” 11 And Moses lifted up his hand and struck the rock with his staff twice, and water came out abundantly, and the congregation drank, and their livestock. 12 And the Lord said to Moses and Aaron, “Because you did not believe in me, to uphold me as holy in the eyes of the people of Israel, therefore you shall not bring this assembly into the land that I have given them.” 13 These are the waters of Meribah, where the people of Israel quarrelled with the Lord, and through them he showed himself holy.

So what happened? God said to Moses, ‘Tell the rock, speak to the rock to yield its water. Moses didn’t speak to the rock. He struck it and the first time he struck it no water came out and you know what he did? Struck it again, this time the water came out. But because according to the LORD he did not believe him, to uphold the LORD as holy in the eyes of the people he was therefore punished and said he would not be the one to bring the assembly into the land – the promised land. That is the reason why. So that is what scripture says. Here is again is what TD Jakes said.

TD Jakes, “It took about forty years a lot of wondering, a lot of dying and now God said, ‘Moses you were good to bring them to this point. But now that they are owning and not being owned I need Joshua, because Joshua is a fighter.”

Chris Rosebrough, “That is blasphemy isn’t it? He has added to scripture – completely changed the story. But all of that then is to setup this idea of what is the purpose of the story of Joshua then?”

TD Jakes, “It is one thing to believe something and wonder, but when you get ready to possess it. You have got to fight. Hey I am going to say it is one thing to believe something and wonder. But when you get ready to possess it, you have got to fight. You cannot be led by a Moses, when it is time to fight. You have got to be led by a Joshua. Because Joshua had a fighting instinct….”

Chris Rosebrough, “So you can’t be led a Moses, when it is time to fight. This is all nonsense. It is false doctrine. This is lying about God and lying about His word.”

TD Jakes, “Fighter, if you are a fighter, tell somebody and say, ‘I am a fighter.’ That doesn’t necessarily mean that I am going up my dukes to punch you. That doesn’t necessarily mean that I am going to push you out of your seat. It does mean if that you between in me and what God has promised me. Don’t expect me to lay down and let you take over. Any there any fighters in the house? Fought to get up, fought to finish what you started. Fought to get in the college. Fought to stay in the college. Fought to keep your mind against opposition…..”

Chris Rosebrough, “Yeah none of this has anything to do with what the Bible really says. This is false doctrine and filling people’s minds with garbage….”

TD Jakes, “You are not there because you weren’t in a fight. You had to fight every step of the way to get to where you are and if you are not a fighter you are not going to finish. You have got to bad. You have got to be down with it. You have got to be bad. You have got to be ready come hell or high water. I want to….”

Chris Rosebrough, “Uh hmm you have got to be ready come hell or high water. What does this have to do with the Bible – what it really says? Absolutely nothing….”

TD Jakes, “….And Joshua is in a fight. He is in a fight and he doesn’t exactly know where he is going. Because sometimes when you are a fighter and fighting to accomplish your purpose you don’t exactly know what you is doing. One time he pulls his sword on the angel of God. He has fought so much that anything coming in his direction he will tell. He says are you for me or against me? When you have had to fight all your life, sometimes it is hard to make friends. Because anybody that gets in close proximity to you, you draw your sword and say, ‘Don’t start nothing I…’”

Chris Rosebrough, “Yeah what does this have to do with scripture? Nothing the idea here is well when you get ready to read the book of Joshua that is the blueprint for how to be a fighter in your life. To take possession, to learn how to be an owner rather than being owned and all that kind of stuff. Filling these people with absolute nonsense – doctrinal nonsense.

The Bible doesn’t mean any of this and the proof for that is the fact that in order to get to this message he had to lie, literally lie – make up stuff about what the biblical text says and that is not rightly handling God’s word. That is deceiving and that is what sends people to hell.

Alright we are up on our first break. If you would like to email me regarding anything you have heard on this edition any or previous editions of Fighting for the Faith. You can do so my email address is talkback@fightingforthefaith.com or you can subscribe on Facebook – www.facebook.com/piratechristian or follow me on Twitter. My name there is @piratechristian.

 

Fighting for the Faith With Chris Rosebrough – Beth Moore’s Non-Exegetical Eisegesis

Below is a transcript taken from Chris Rosebrough’s radio show podcast Fighting For The Faith Radio podcast which was originally broadcast on Wednesday October 2nd 2013, which you can subscribe to on iTunes. I highly recommend you do this if you want to develop discernment. 

You can also listen to this unbiblical sermon from Beth Moore – Discovering Our True Selves – part 5. This is available from the ‘Life Today audio podcast’ in iTunes and it is available from Light Source > http://www.lightsource.com/ministry/wednesdays-with-beth/video-player/beth-moore-our-true-selves-part-5-366854.html

Here is the video link for this transcript > http://youtu.be/OVdT02UpYCA

[Mp3 - First Segment - 00:02:14 – 00:05:49]

Chris Rosebrough, “Now there is a particular technique that I have noted among certain very popular teachers within Christendom and I am using Christendom in like broadest possible meaning here. We will say maybe the visible church, although we can’t see the invisible church. The invisible church is made up of those who are truly penitent and trusting Christ for the forgiveness of their sins.

But the idea is this is that if somebody is really a popular teacher within the visible church don’t you think that person should be noted by and basically earn the right to have a large audience due to the fact that they do a stellar job of rightly handling God’s Word and helping us to understand it, so that we can all be good disciples of Jesus Christ.

I mean after all false doctrine is forbidden by scripture. In fact you teaching false doctrine, you be in big trouble. Jesus is not too hip on that and neither is God the Holy Spirit and so the idea is that this particular technique that I have made reference to just in passing, but haven’t really defined is a fascinating technique and what I find interesting about it is that it kind of goes something like this.

Open up your Bibles to ex-wi-zee chapter and verse and then the person begins to read ex-wi-zee chapter and verse. And no sooner are they done reading chapter and verse maybe two, three verses at the most. Then they proceed to launch into something that verse doesn’t even talk about or say and normally they end up talking about themselves.

You know it is the weirdest thing. It is as if somehow you know we open God’s word and we read the stories that are there and you know I can’t help it. But I have got to tell you one of my life stories and somehow my life story seems to be connected to this verse and you know the problem is the way it is connected is in the most tortuous of well how do I say this. It is not even correctly put together. You know there is no real connection here and you know it is a very tenuous connection at best and most of the times it is no connection at all.

Now I notice this with all kinds of popular teachers. Joel Osteen, Rick Warren, Steven Furtick, you can even say Beth Moore.

In fact we are going to have a Beth Moore update today and I…do I have a Beth Moore update music. It is been so long since we have done an update on Beth Moore that I….she is not really a regular. She is somebody who from time to time I tune into and one of the reasons why I don’t do her you know do Beth Moore updates more often….well and I probably should is because she is one of these gals who let’s just say that she really gives a good exegete, a run for their and often times finding the error in the way she is handling God’s Word is very subtle and takes a lot of work.

In fact you know she out of all of the people out there who I have noted actually have a propensity for twisting God’s Word. Especially in this way that we are going to talk about today. She is the best at hiding it and actually does attempt to at least engage in something of exegesis which kind of begs the question is that…you know she doesn’t claim to be a pastor. But man a lot of people look to her and her teaching as if she were their pastor. You know what I am saying but anyway that is probably a topic for a different episode of Fighting for the Faith.

[Mp3 - Second Segment – 00:08:06 – 00:08:50]

And then we will take our break and when we come back from our break we are going to have an extended Beth Moore you know listen to and she is one of these ones that you know she does some things right and then there is this other thing that she does that you know she…well I won’t even tell you the text that she is supposedly teaching on. Because the lead off into it you know you have got, this is from The Life Today programme.

They set her up as basically saying that Beth Moore is going to teach us about our true selves and I am thinking, ‘Our true selves what is that?’ And then she launches…she you know they so when they segway into her – she is talking about plastic surgery and so without looking you know could you guess what passage of scripture she is actually teaching on? Yeah it is going to be a little bit of challenge.

[Mp3 -Third segment – 00:45:37 - 01:08:46]

Chris Rosebrough, “Alright we are back. Warning if you are attending a church and the pastor is spends an enormous amount of time twisting a scripture into telling you how wonderful and important you are, rather than telling you about Christ – run your eternal life depends on it!!!

Alright here I think I have used this music before in the past for Beth Moore updates but here we go.

I am woman – Helen Reddy

I am woman, hear me roar
In numbers too big to ignore
And I know too much to go back an’ pretend
‘Cause I have heard it all before
And I’ve been down there on the floor
No one’s ever gonna keep me down again

Oh yes, I am wise
But it’s wisdom born of pain
Yes, I have paid the price
But look how much I gained
If I have to, I can do anything
I am strong
(Strong)
I am invincible
(Invincible)
I am woman….

Yeah there we go Helen Reddy – I am woman. Hear me roar. Okay yeah I think we will be using that for Beth Moore in the future if we haven’t already done that in the past. It has been a long time since we have done a Beth Moore update.

So what we are going to be listening to today is we are going to be listening to a segment from The Life Today television programme where Beth Moore holds court if you would and we are going to hear her being introduced by the hosts of Life Today and supposedly she is going to be talking about discovering our true selves and I am not going to tell you what passage of scripture she is supposedly teaching through.

See if you can figure it out based on the intro. Because like again we are kind of delving into this. Notice what Joel Osteen did with scripture. Just throw out this verse just completely out of context. Made it say what it doesn’t say and then no sooner is it out on the table. It just departs and then starts making up stuff. Ah well this is what Beth Moore is doing, although she got starts out by just making up stuff and then finding the biblical verse and I can’t figure out the connection but she is better than most at handling God’s word. Let’s just put it that way. She actually makes some effort to try to handle it correctly whereas most of the Bible twisters don’t.

So here is the folks over at Life Today to introduce this segment from Beth Moore on Discovering Our True Selves. Yeah here we go.

James Robison, “And you are going to want to do that. Well Beth is teaching on our true selves and I think sometimes people don’t know. They really don’t know what they look like and I think even you know sometimes we have too an opinion. But more than often we may have a low opinion and then we don’t want to get honest about ourselves. Well let’s listen to Beth because I think she is going to inspire all of us. Here is Beth welcome….”

Chris Rosebrough, “That is I think James Robison introducing because she is going to be talking about our true selves. Okay can you figure out just from this introduction which passage of scripture she is going to be teaching from? No ideas well you know let’s see if….let’s fill in a little bit more data. Here we go….”

James Robison, “Here is Beth welcome….”

Beth Moore, “Listen have you ever had a revelation happen to you when you realised that what it is you find distasteful about somebody is what is in them is that in you. I hate it….”

Chris Rosebrough, “Uh hmm you know what passage of scripture she is teaching through yet? Okay alright more data. I am sure you need more data. Here we go….”

Beth Moore, “I absolutely hate it. But what you resist is that it forces you to look in the mirror. That what you see in them is a seed of yourself. Uh that is what you can’t stand and it is this glance. I have got to tell you where this has happened to me and because we are just being honest. This is our series. We are just like being transparent with before one another. Unfortunately I am the only one doing all the talking. It is time for you to write to me and tell me all your honesty. Okay every now and then….”

Chris Rosebrough, “Does she blink? I mean seriously I feel like I am watching a humming bird on crack or something. It just ah!”

Beth Moore, “Okay every now and then God will cause me to kind of have odd almost an obsessive stare at a woman who in her attempt to retain youth when youth was no longer possible she has completely disfigured her face….”

Chris Rosebrough, “Oh you like mean like Joyce Meyer! Whoops did I say that out loud.”

Beth Moore, “I am talking about disfiguring her face. I am talking about when you look at somebody and think what has happened that you can look in the mirror and you think that looks okay. I have got a very good a dear friend who is a dermatologist and she said you cannot know how many times we try to say to a patient, ‘It is not going to look good.’

And I ask you she said every now and then she just goes, ‘I am not. I can’t do it. You can have somebody else do it. But I am not doing it.’ Because when you do that you are honestly not going to look real. I don’t mean trying to work with what you have got. I am not talking about a little nipping and tucking here. I am talking about….”

Chris Rosebrough, “Alright pause right there. Do you know which passage of scripture she will be referencing with this introduction regarding our true selves. No idea yet okay I don’t know, just alright let’s continue….”

Beth Moore, “I am talking about a whole restructuring where somebody looks like they got on this weird mask and they got these implants in their face. They no longer have any nose at all and now when listen when your cheeks stick out further than your nose and your profile.

Something ain’t right. Is somebody with me on this? But see the Lord I almost get obsessed with it. Like I can’t quit looking at it, like if it is in an airport or something or in a restaurant or something sometimes Keith will go do I need to sit to the side where I can see better? Because what I know is bothering me is that I think the Holy Spirit is saying to me, ‘You want to be careful Beth don’t you?’ You know because I want to work out.….”

Chris Rosebrough, “So now we have got direct revelation you know coming into play here. God the Holy Spirit speaking directly to Beth Moore. Do you know which passage of scripture she is going to be teaching on yet regarding our true selves with this introduction? Any passages come to mind yet? Alright more data here we go.”

Beth Moore, “I like fun clothes. You know I want to have cool hip hair. I…you know where is the line? I don’t know. I don’t where it is. Because if somebody argued it with me and I would say, ‘Do you colour your hair?’ We wear makeup. Most of you guys don’t. Some of you do. I mean like where is the line? Because truly the only way you can know it in the culture that we live in is to walk in the Spirit enough to where God can say with His Holy Spirit within in you, ‘Uh hmm….’ and so the Lord will constantly when I am in a situation I am looking at someone that is just a few years older than me, that has kind of gone bizarre on it.

I will hear him say in my inner man, ‘Is that what you want? You better be careful….’

Chris Rosebrough, “So God the Holy Spirit is telling you is that what you want? You better be careful. Okay so you get direct revelation from God. Do you know which passage of scripture she is going to be teaching on yet? Nope not yet okay….”

Beth Moore, “You better be careful Beth. Stay this side of the line. Lord well I know where the line is and so I have got to deal with my daughters. My daughters are both in their early 30s. One is 30 and one is 32 and I have got to deal with them.

I say this is what I want you both to do, if mummy ever crosses the line and I no longer look like a normal person and you ever come home and I have got a small nose and listen I am not listen I am not talking about I am not dogging having a nose job. I listen I goodness knows I would love to have had one at some point. But by the time I had the money to I didn’t care anymore.

Does anybody know why that is not, but so I am not dogging any of that. But I am saying it is bizarre when somebody is anybody I need to see your hand if you know what I am talking about which is like bizarre, like woah! I mean let me tell you….by the time there is this whole big thing that came out a couple of years ago. 60 is sexy. I am going to tell you something. No it is not….”

Chris Rosebrough, “Okay any guesses as to which passage she is going to be teaching on yet? Nope okay more data. Let’s this is a tough one here you know because wait until you hear the passage. I mean supposedly this has something to do with a particular passage of scripture….”

Beth Moore, “Well pick your shirt up because it is really not. You know it is a lot of things. It is a lot of good things. But no sexy is not one of them. I can’t really even tell you 50 is sexy. I just can’t because you know it is not what it is about then. But we are trying to be that. It is a little gross and so I ask my am I telling you all the truth or am I making something up?

Is this just me being sensitive or have you seen it? And so I have made a deal with my daughters. My Amanda and Melissa I said, ‘Here is what I want you to do. If you ever like look at me and go, ‘Woah where is our mother?’ I want you to say, ‘Mother we love you so much. But you look like an idiot.’ That is all I am asking. I need somebody. Because see what we don’t like is just that we have to face something that is like a goliath size of something that is pent up inside of us and it is scary….”

Chris Rosebrough, “Alright now she has approached the podium here and there is a Bible on the podium. So I mean before she breaks out The Bible here, any final guesses as to which passage of scripture she is teaching on?

This is a tough one isn’t it huh? Because yeah I have no idea. Yeah I mean when you hear the….when you what passage of scripture she is supposedly teaching on I am well you might want to be careful here. I don’t want you to suffer from whiplash or anything. Here we go….”

Beth Moore, “Now I want to read the first three verses of Genesis 33 and….”

Chris Rosebrough, “Okay so Genesis 33 the first three verses. There it is that is the reference and if you have your Bible let’s take a look. Genesis 33 v 1-3, man I just okay man I am just working through my memory banks here. Genesis 33 that would be something to do with Jacob right?

Okay so it is before Joseph and clearly before Joseph. Definitely after Abraham, definitely after Isaac. So okay we are dealing with Jacob. Okay so what story comes to mind in the stories of Jacob that would warrant you going into a discussion on finding your true self and you know and you having a discussion about the importance of being real regarding plastic surgery, nose jobs, and coming to grips with the fact that 60 is not sexy. Okay so Genesis 33 v 1-3. Let me read them.

Genesis 33 v 1-3 (ESV – English Standard Version)

1 And Jacob lifted up his eyes and looked, and behold, Esau was coming, and four hundred men with him. So he divided the children among Leah and Rachel and the two female servants. And he put the servants with their children in front, then Leah with her children, and Rachel and Joseph last of all. He himself went on before them, bowing himself to the ground seven times, until he came near to his brother.

There you go. You see the connection yet? I don’t see any connection with what she led off with in this teaching about discovering our true selves and this passage. It doesn’t make any sense at all. But see that is kind of how things go nowadays among popular teachers within the visible church.

It doesn’t matter what any biblical text says because no sooner do you read a biblical text or you know you know you hover around it and circle the podium and yeah then you are off it talking about something that has nothing to do with it. So Genesis 33 v 1-3 apparently is telling us the importance of being careful with plastic surgery and stuff like that. Do you see the connection? I don’t let’s continue though. Let’s give Beth an opportunity to see if we can find out what is going on with her exegetical insights into this passage and what that has to do with that opening. Here we go….”

Beth Moore, “I am relieved and you are relieved because listen that was a painful few minutes we just spent wasn’t it? Was it painful that anybody besides me? I would love to hear what you men are relating on because there has got to be a way that relates to you guys as well.

Genesis 33 v 1-3, so here he goes walking out. We have got the sun coming up and the music is really playing loud. It is so powerful. The sun is rising you can see that sun coming up just like purple through that through the clouds and through that gorgeous ray of sun coming up and we see Jacob and he is limping and a lot of scholars will say there is no reason for us to think that he ever got over it….”

Chris Rosebrough, “Yeah he is limping because he just had a limping match with Jesus.”

Beth Moore, “Genesis 33 v 1-3, so here he goes walking out. We have got the sun coming up and the music is really playing loud. It is so powerful. The sun is rising you can see that sun coming up just like purple through that through the clouds and through that gorgeous ray of sun coming up and we see Jacob and he is limping and a lot of scholars will say there is no reason for us to think that he ever got over it.

I mean he was going to like pull out his leg. You know what I am saying? In those days a lot of times when there was an injury it just stayed and it just dogged them until their death and so in all likelihood he always kind of had a little bit of an unstable walk and it says….

Genesis 33 v 1-3 (ESV – English Standard Version)

1 And Jacob lifted up his eyes and looked, and behold, Esau was coming….

And I love this part because it goes ahead and tells us that the four hundred men sure enough four hundred men were with him.

Genesis 33 v 1 (ESV – English Standard Version)

….1 and four hundred men with him.

And so here is what Jacob did. Now we remember those of us who were in the first half of the series together. We know that he did a lot of conniving and planning and we are going to see how much he really brings to pass at this point. Because here is what happens….

Chris Rosebrough, “Yeah…..”

Beth Moore, “Because here is what happens is that he divides the children among the mothers. Here is Leah and Rachel and their children….”

Genesis 33 v 1 (ESV – English Standard Version)

1 So he divided the children among Leah and Rachel and the two female servants.

Chris Rosebrough, “Yeah again what did that introduction have to do with this passage? I do not see the connection. Do you see the connection? I don’t see the connection but this is how people supposedly preach The Bible nowadays. Their commentary the things they go off on have nothing to do with anything that is actually in the text and supposedly this is all about finding our true selves. This is what James Robison told us. But I mean does any of this make any lucid sense to you? It doesn’t make any sense to me….”

Beth Moore, “Here is what happens is that as he divides the children among the mothers. Here is Leah and Rachel and their children. Here is the servants with them and he put the servants with their children in front and Leah and her children and Rachel and Joseph last of all. But notice something very important here v3.

Genesis 33 v 3 (ESV – English Standard Version)

He himself went on before them, bowing himself to the ground seven times, until he came near to his brother.

He himself went on, what is the next word? Ahead of them. He went before them. Do you remember over and over? Check it out, all over Genesis 32. He was saying and Jacob he is coming behind us. Always hiding behind us, pushing us from the person we are not wanting to face. Have you ever really needed to face someone and not just because it is a biblical command to take another witness.

But because you wanted protection, you take a whole group with you so that person will be nice to you? Anybody only this time something has happened. Because this time Jacob is right up front. Because you see once we have wrestled with God and lived through it we can face almost anything.”

Chris Rosebrough, “Uh really supposedly Genesis 33 is telling us that once we have wrestled with God we can handle anything. I haven’t wrestled with God have you? Has God you know taken your hip joint and pulled it out of socket? I mean notice this is narcissistic eisegesis, just basically taking the text allegorizing it and then reading yourself into it as if this is somehow prescriptive for your life. It is not….”

Beth Moore, “He is ready to go face Him and what I just love is he faces Him. He walks on ahead of them with his limp and you know what occurred to me? You know we have all got a limp, we all do. I need you to know….”

Chris Rosebrough, “No I don’t. I don’t have a limp unless I pull a muscle in my leg. You know I don’t, I actually don’t walk with a limp. Do you walk with a limp? I don’t walk with a limp. So notice she reads the text. No sooner is it out that now she is off talking about us, as if somehow this passage somehow is telling me something about me. It is not…aye-yi-yi-yi….”

Beth Moore, “I need you to know I have got a limp. You don’t live 55 years on planet earth unscathed. Hurts happen, injuries happen….”

Chris Rosebrough, “Yeah Jacob had a for real actual bonafide limp. If we had you know took a film crew back into Canaan at that time and filmed this you know Jacob post wrestling with God in you know Genesis 33 at this event. If we were to record a family reunion on tape of the reunion between Jacob and Esau.

We would see him walking with a bonafide limp. She is not talking about a real limp here. She is talking about some figurative limp that you have in your life and this passage is not talking about that. Again she reads the text and now she is off topic talking about something.

She is not telling us what this text really says, what it means as if this passage has something to do with plastic surgery and 60 not being the new sexy and now you know talking about oh she has got a limp and I am watching her walk around the podium here on this television set and no she doesn’t have a limp….”

Beth Moore, “I need you to know I have got a limp. You don’t live 55 years on planet earth unscathed. Hurts happen, injuries happen, all of us have scars, all of us have wounds, all of us do. Life is tough. It is tough so we have all got a limp of some kind, wrestling through life on planet earth. But we do our best to hide it.

Why because I am going to tell you something actually we are going to see Esau run to him and I wonder if we could make the point that when we are not so careful to hide our limp and when we want everybody to think we have got it together. We are no longer even approachable….”

Chris Rosebrough, “Uh please….so the reason why Esau ran to Jacob was because Jacob had a limp and but had he not had a limp, he wouldn’t have been approachable. Does any of this make any sense to you? This is nonsense. This is gobbledygook. This isn’t exegesis. This isn’t proper hermeneutics. This is talking about yourself, allegorizing the biblical text and making it say things that they don’t say.

Do you think God had Moses write down Genesis 33 so that you can learn about the dangers of plastic surgery and the importance of walking with the limp so that you can be approachable by people? You get what I am saying.

I don’t need to go on and it is but this is just another example of it. I mean this weird thing that is going on in the church where people who are popular teachers. They don’t pay any attention whatsoever about what these texts really say and what they really mean.

They are more interested in talking about themselves and finding see the thing is that people who listen to this kind of teaching, they think they are being taught sound biblical doctrine. They think they are being good disciples of Jesus and are learning what The Bible says. No they are not, they are not learning what The Bible says at all. They are learning narcissistic nonsense, which is exactly what that is and it is like the favourite Bible twisting technique of most popular teachers in the visible church today and this is no way to study God’s word and to learn what it really says.

In fact this kind of teaching works against that goal of teaching you sound doctrine and what Christ really said and really taught and what The Bible really is about and what it really means. Something to consider…..

Alright we are up on our second break. If you would like to email me regarding anything you have heard on this edition or any previous editions of Fighting for the Faith. You can do so. My email address is talkback@fightingforthefaith.com or you can subscribe on Facebook. www.facebook.com/piratechristian or follow me on Twitter. My name there is @piratechristian.

Fighting for the Faith With Chris Rosebrough – Joel Osteen’s Major Bible Twist

Below is a transcript taken from Chris Rosebrough’s radio show podcast Fighting For The Faith Radio podcast which was originally broadcast on Wednesday October 2nd 2013, which you can subscribe to on iTunes. I highly recommend you do this if you want to develop discernment. 

You can also listen to this unbiblical sermon mp3 of Joel Osteen’s sermon – Doing Business in Deep Waters. This is available from ‘Joel Osteen audio podcast’ in iTunes and it is available on YouTube > http://youtu.be/dTFw227RAVU

Here is the video link for this transcript > http://youtu.be/58s2FKqB44U

[First segment from mp3 - 00:07:06 - 00:08:06]

Chris Rosebrough, “So let’s talk about what we are going to do on today’s episode. We will switch gears and we have got a Joel Osteen update. One of the most convoluted. You see that is the thing with Joel Osteen just when you think it can’t get anymore convoluted than it is you know Joel he takes it to a whole new level of convoluted. I mean he convolutes the convoluted in a convoluted way and so you just got you know convoluted squared and cube kind of stuff going on here.

One of those ones that you know I had to check in with Joel see what his latest offering was and after listening to it I was just you know taking my head and just banging it on the desk and going no, no why does anybody listen to this man I have idea and yet alone so many just basically your grassroots evangelicals would say, ‘Oh yeah Joel Osteen he is our Christian brother. My question is how by what stretch of the imagination is he our Christian brother? I mean there isn’t a biblical passage that he hasn’t twisted and I don’t think the man.  I don’t think he has any concept of what The Bible actually teaches.

Chris Rosebrough, “Moving along….”

[Second segment from mp3 – 00:21:17 - 00:40:20]

My Shiny Teeth and Me

When I am feeling lonely

Sad as I can be
All by myself on an uncharted island
In an endless sea

What makes me happy
Fills me up with glee
Those bones in my jaw!
That don’t have a flaw

My shiny teeth and me

My shiny teeth that twinkle
Just like the stars in space
My shiny teeth that sparkle
Adding beauty to my face

My shiny teeth that glisten
Just like a Christmas tree
You know they walk a mile just to see me smile
Woo!
My shiny teeth and me
(shiny teeth shiny teeth)

Yeah that is right Chip Skylark – My Shiny Teeth. That is our Joel Osteen update music. In case you haven’t been around Fighting for the Faith for very long. Alright so what we are going to be listening to is Joel Osteen. The name of the message by the way, the name of the message is Doing Business in Deep Waters. Watching this it is one of the most convoluted things that I have ever….but pay attention to what he is doing with scripture in this because it is I mean wow….I don’t even know how to describe this.

This is one of the worst twists of the Bible that I have ever seen….of course because Joel he is smiling. He has got those big pearly white teeth and he talks with that Forest Gump kind of southern draw. You are thinking you know this guy is the nicest guy in the world. So you know here I mean this is the kind of thing that anybody other than Joel Osteen tries to pull this off and they will belly flop. It is going to be like a belly flop from the high dive. But somehow he like lands this perfectly and doesn’t even make a splash and you are thinking ‘How does he do this?’

But it is one of those things it is so commonly observed that you just wonder why are there are so many people packing this compact, the former compacts out that are there in Houston and we are talking tens of thousands of people come to see Joel Osteen every single weekend and it is utter pablum. It is like ridiculous pablum like comedy pablum. But by the way you might want to have your Bible open to Psalm 107. So without any further or due here is Joel Osteen and his message entitled Doing Business in Deep Waters. Here we go….”

Joel Osteen, “God bless you. It is always a joy to come into your homes and if you ever in our area. Please stop by and be a part of one of our services. I promise you, you will feel you at home. But thanks so much for tuning in and thank you again for coming out today and I like to start with something funny and I heard about this lady that died and she was standing at the pearly gates and Saint Peter said, ‘You can’t come in yet.

You have to correctly spell a word. She said, ‘What word?’ He said, ‘Any word.’ So she spelled the word love l.o.v.e. He said, ‘Welcome to heaven.’ Then Peter asked if she would take his place for a moment and he instructed. If anyone should come up, just to follow the same procedure,’ and she agreed. In a few minutes she sees her ex husband walking up. She can’t believe it. She says what are you doing here? He said, ‘I had a heart attack. Did I really make it to heaven?’ She said, ‘Not yet you have to correctly spell a word.’ He said, ‘What word? There was a long pause and she said Czechoslovakia.’

Hold up your Bible. Say it like you mean it. This is my Bible. I am what it says I am. I have what it says I have. I can do what it says I can do. Today I will be taught the Word of God….”

Chris Rosebrough, “No you won’t…..”

Joel Osteen, “I boldly confess my mind is alert. My heart is receptive. I will never be the same in Jesus name. God bless you….”

Chris Rosebrough, “Alright do you have your Bible open to Psalm 107? You need to have it there again. Remember the name of the message Doing Business in Deep Waters. Here we go….”

Joel Osteen, “I want to talk to you today about doing business in deep waters.

Chris Rosebrough, “Really okay well what does that mean?”

Joel Osteen, “If you are going to do anything great in life there will be opposition, setbacks, delays, critics and a lot of….”

Chris Rosebrough, “Now this is the funny thing. This is the story that Joel Osteen tells himself and his followers. Oh you do anything great in life, you are going to have setbacks and you are going to have critics and stuff like that. The reason why Joel Osteen has critics is because the guy is a flat out wolf. Because he can’t properly handle God’s Word and what he says is a complete joke.

This isn’t biblical teaching that you know they are hearing there and that is the reason why he has critics, not because he is doing something great. It is because he is a great Bible twister, which is a completely different thing altogether and so the reason why he has critics is because he ain’t teaching the truth.

But see this is the story they tell you, you know God has this big dream that He wants to you know fulfil in you and he is going to put this – he is going to birth it in your heart and of course you do this you are going to be doing business in deep waters and when you are doing business in deep waters – well you are doing some important work out there and you are going to have critics.

You are going to have people that come against you because oh this is the thing that God is trying to do with you because of course, anything that God is doing – Satan has to oppose and so if you believe this you are going to have opposition. You have opposition within the visible church is because this isn’t what The Bible teaches. But I digress….we continue….”

Joel Osteen, “If you are going to do anything great in life there will be opposition, setbacks, delays, critics and a lot of people get discouraged. I think why is this happening to me? It is because you are taking new ground. Because you making progress and the scripture says, (Psalm 107 v 23-24) ‘They that go down to the sea to do business in deep waters will see the wonders of God….’

Chris Rosebrough, “Okay so according to Joel Osteen Psalm 107, the verse…actually it is two verses. Psalm 107 v 23-24 supposedly reads, ‘They that go down to the sea to do business in deep waters will see the wonders of God.’ Now I am going to be taking at look this from the ESV. See if we can make heads or tails of this.

But what we are going to do is we are going to apply our three rules for sound biblical exegesis and they are context, context, context and context. So let’s take a look at this passage and see what it is really saying when we look at it in context. I am going to start at v1….

Psalm 107 v 1-25 (ESV – English Standard Version)

1 Oh, give thanks to the Lord, for He is good!
For His mercy endures forever.
Let the redeemed of the Lord say so,
Whom He has redeemed from the hand of the enemy,
And gathered out of the lands,
From the east and from the west,
From the north and from the south.

They wandered in the wilderness in a desolate way;

They found no city to dwell in.
Hungry and thirsty,
Their soul fainted in them.
Then they cried out to the Lord in their trouble,
And He delivered them out of their distresses.
And He led them forth by the right way,
That they might go to a city for a dwelling place.
Oh, that men would give thanks to the Lord for His goodness,
And for His wonderful works to the children of men!
For He satisfies the longing soul,
And fills the hungry soul with goodness.

10 Those who sat in darkness and in the shadow of death,

Bound in affliction and irons—
11 Because they rebelled against the words of God,
And despised the counsel of the Most High,
12 Therefore He brought down their heart with labour;
They fell down, and there was none to help.
13 Then they cried out to the Lord in their trouble,
And He saved them out of their distresses.
14 He brought them out of darkness and the shadow of death,
And broke their chains in pieces.
15 Oh, that men would give thanks to the Lord for His goodness,
And for His wonderful works to the children of men!
16 For He has broken the gates of bronze,
And cut the bars of iron in two.

17 Fools, because of their transgression,

And because of their iniquities, were afflicted.
18 Their soul abhorred all manner of food,
And they drew near to the gates of death.
19 Then they cried out to the Lord in their trouble,
And He saved them out of their distresses.
20 He sent His word and healed them,
And delivered them from their destructions.
21 Oh, that men would give thanks to the Lord for His goodness,
And for His wonderful works to the children of men!
22 Let them sacrifice the sacrifices of thanksgiving,
And declare His works with rejoicing.

23 Those who go down to the sea in ships,

Who do business on great waters,
24 They see the works of the Lord,
And His wonders in the deep.
25 For He commands and raises the stormy wind,
Which lifts up the waves of the sea.

26 They mount up to the heavens,

They go down again to the depths;
Their soul melts because of trouble.
27 They reel to and fro, and stagger like a drunken man,
And are at their wits’ end.
28 Then they cry out to the Lord in their trouble,
And He brings them out of their distresses.
29 He calms the storm,
So that its waves are still.
30 Then they are glad because they are quiet;
So He guides them to their desired haven.
31 Oh, that men would give thanks to the Lord for His goodness,
And for His wonderful works to the children of men!
32 Let them exalt Him also in the assembly of the people,
And praise Him in the company of the elders.

Now you are going to notice that there is a pattern here in Psalm 107. It talks about how men they wandered in wastes. They were sat in darkness. They were fools and turned away from the LORD and engaged in iniquities and by the time we get to Psalm 107 v 23 the cycle begins again. Describing people who are not righteous, who don’t believe correctly and they see God’s judgement and then they repent and so here it says Psalm 107 v 23….

Psalm 107 v 23-25 (ESV – English Standard Version)

23 Those who go down to the sea in ships,
Who do business on great waters,
24 They see the works of the Lord,
And His wonders in the deep.
25 For He commands and raises the stormy wind,
Which lifts up the waves of the sea.

But Joel Osteen here has done something bizarre with this text. He has completely changed it and so now the passage according to Joel Osteen’s rendering of it is they that go down to the sea to do business in ‘The deep waters will see the wonders of God.’ That is not what this passage says at all. This is absolutely nonsensical convoluted ridiculousness and only Joel Osteen because of his shiny teeth could pull this off without people going you know throwing tomatoes throwed at him which is probably what needs to happen. But we continue….”

Joel Osteen, “When you are in these deep waters you are not praying God please don’t let me face anything big. No you realise when you have big dreams you are going to have big challenges. If you were an average….”

Chris Rosebrough, “What oh man yeah Psalm 107 v 22-23 has nothing to do with you doing business in deep waters and having big challenges….”

Joel Osteen, “If you were an average person, then you would have average problems. But here is the key you are not average. You are not in the shallow waters. God put seeds of greatness in you.”

Chris Rosebrough, “Uh huh and Psalm 107 is all about the seeds of greatness that God put in me. Yeah does the phrase scratching itching ears ring a bell to you?”

Joel Osteen, “He has destined you to leave you a mark on this generation. You cannot expect ordinary problems. You are a history maker. You are a world changer. Well why are these people are talking about….”

Chris Rosebrough, “What if I don’t want to be?”

Joel Osteen, “Well why are these people are talking about me at work. Why are they trying to make me look bad? Listen they don’t talk about average people. They talk about extraordinary people.”

Chris Rosebrough, “Oh man this is like utter ego boosting narcissistic pablum…”

Joel Osteen, “Take it as a compliment. It goes with the territory.”

Chris Rosebrough, “You know Jesus actually told the message that Christians are supposed to proclaim. Yeah it is true, it is in Luke’s version of the great commission. You can find it in Luke 24 and Luke 24 we have these words of Jesus where he says in v46…..

Luke 24 v 46 (ESV – English Standard Version)

46 Then He said to them, “Thus it is written, and thus it was necessary for the Christ to suffer and to rise from the dead the third day, 47 and that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in His name to all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.

I don’t hear repentance and the forgiveness of sins being preached by Joel Osteen down there in Houston. I hear a complete utter ego boosting nonsense. Rather than humbling yourself before the LORD. Somehow the LORD has a message for you to boost your ego and let you know how wonderful and amazing you are….”

Joel Osteen, “Every time I try to move forward I face major challenges. It because you are a major person and you have a major destiny. The enemy would leave you alone if you weren’t a major threat. He wouldn’t bother you if you didn’t have something amazing in your future….”

Chris Rosebrough, “Wow you are a planet shaker man….”

Joel Osteen, “Because you are an extraordinary person, you will face extraordinary challenges. The good news is we serve an extraordinary God. He can get you to where you are supposed to be….”

Chris Rosebrough, “Oh man this reminds me of a particular prophecy found in scripture. If you have your Bible head on over 2 Timothy 3. Let me read this….”

2 Timothy 3 v 1-9 (ESV – English Standard Version)

1 But understand this, that in the last days there will come times of difficulty. For people will be lovers of self, lovers of money, proud, arrogant, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy, heartless, unappeasable, slanderous, without self-control, brutal, not loving good,treacherous, reckless, swollen with conceit, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God,

I…this message we hearing from Joel today well it really reminds me of that what we are warned about in scripture about how people will be in the last days. I mean seriously….”

Joel Osteen, “When you are in the deep waters you are not wasting your time trying to convince everyone to like you. Win over all your critics. Prove to all your family members that you really are okay. Let me give you a newsflash….everybody is not going to like you. Everyone is not going to understand you.

Your friends may not celebrate your success. Your relatives may find fault. Your co-workers may get jealous. Shake it off and run your race. You are doing business in deep waters. You don’t have time to go over in the shallow waters for all that pettiness. You are a history maker. You cannot please every person and please God at the same time. You will either have a few people upset with you or you will have God upset with you. I have learned….”

Chris Rosebrough, “And the scary thing is that those people there think that this is actually what God’s Word teaches and so they are going to actually act on this thinking that they are doing what God wants them to do and believing what God’s wants them to believe. This is phew demonic….”

Joel Osteen, “If you will please God He will take care of your critics. Well Joel they said something about me. I will go and straighten them out. No if that battle is not between you and your God given destiny, it is simply a distraction. You are not supposed to engage in every battle.

You only have so much emotional energy each day. If you are spending that energy thinking about how you can pay somebody back. Calling a friend, ‘Can you believe what they said.’ You are not going to have the energy you need for own dreams. Don’t fight battles that don’t matter. You have got to be selective in how you spend your time. We all love our family. But some family members you have to love them from a distance. Some relatives once a year at the family reunion is good enough….

Chris Rosebrough, “And people are amening this as if this is a word from God. This is just absolutely selfishly demonic…..”

Joel Osteen, “Some relatives once a year at the family reunion is good enough. Go give them a big hug. Tell them how much you love them. Ask God for forgiveness for lying later but….”

Chris Rosebrough, “Yeah first mention of forgiveness and notice it is in a joke….”

Joel Osteen, “You can’t spend all week with uncle Charlie or he will pull you into the shallow waters and get you off course….”

Chris Rosebrough, “Yeah because you are doing business in the deep….”

Joel Osteen, “You love aunt Myrtle. But if you spend too much time with her you are going to be negative, critical, fighting battles that don’t matter. Learn to love them from a distance….”

Chris Rosebrough, “Yeah you know your aunt Myrtle who sits there and opens up The Bible and says, ‘Yeah Joel Osteen he is not teaching you the truth.’ Yeah stay away from her she will drag you into the shallow water….”

Joel Osteen, “And you have to accept the fact that some people are never going to be for you. Treat them with respect. But you don’t need their approval to fulfil your destiny. Don’t get lured over into the shallow waters trying to prove to them who you are. The apostle Paul had people that were trying to tell him his dreams wouldn’t come to pass….”

Chris Rosebrough, “Uh okay that is about all I can handle of that. That one of the worst Bible twists I have ever heard, which kind of leads to the question what was the point of referencing Psalm 107 again?

Because I mean he didn’t tell us anything about what it really meant. We learned nothing about the context of that passage and what that passage really actually says and what we did get well is something that sure is stuck on me. If you know what I mean. So very dangerous stuff, weird reading of scripture – you know you just throw a Bible verse in and start talking about whatever comes to your mind. Yeah that is not biblical preaching or teaching. That is well like I have said already….that is this is absolutely demonic and Satanic what we are hearing from Joel Osteen.

Alright we are up on our first break. If you would like to email me regarding anything you have heard on this edition or any previous editions of Fighting for the Faith you can do so my email address is talkback@fightingforthefaith.com or you can subscribe on Facebook – www.facebook.com/piratechristian or follow me on Twitter. My name there is @piratechristian.

Fighting for the Faith With Chris Rosebrough – Sermon Review: Lack vs. Overflow By Brian Houston, Hillsong

Below is a transcript taken from Chris Rosebrough’s radio show podcast Fighting For The Faith Radio podcast which was originally broadcast on Monday July 2nd 2012, which you can subscribe to on iTunes. I highly recommend you do this if you want to develop discernment. 

You can also listen to this unbiblical sermon mp3 of Brian Houston’s sermon – Lack vs. Overflow. This is available from ‘The Hillsong Church – Brian Houston’ podcast and available on Youtube - http://youtu.be/aEzUdDy9kjM

Here is the video link for this transcript > http://youtu.be/kvhBJiKk3eE

[First Segment – 00:13:34 – 00:14:13]

Chris Rosebrough, “Since it is the Hillsong Conference, it is raging out there in Australia. I feel sorry for you folks in Australia. It is the summer Olympics. Summer heresy Olympics out there in Sydney and Hillsong has got their big annual conference and you know they have got Joyce Meyer, Steven Furtick, and others including Brian Houston.

So what we are going to do for hour number two today, we are going to be reviewing a sermon by Brian Houston entitled Lack vs. Overflow and Louie Giglio is also featured speaker. I mean that guy has drifted badly to say the least.

[Second Segment – 01:14:42 – 01:50:49]

Chris Rosebrough, “Okay we are back. Hour number two of Fighting for the Faith. We are well into it. Sermon review time, we are going to go down under to Australia and listen to a recent sermon released by Brian Houston of Hillsong who is a noted Word of Faith heretic and prosperity preacher and I don’t think it is a well a coincidence that Steven Furtick hangs out with Brian Houston. Just saying you know with people like Phil Pringle and Kong Hee.

Here we go. The good, the bad, the ugly, we review it all here at Fighting for the Faith. We are equal opportunity sermon reviewing service. Today’s prosperity message comes to us via Hillsong in Sydney, Australia. Brian Houston presiding, the name of the prosperity masloration is entitled Lack vs. Overflow and I think we begin in that wonderful Psalm where the LORD is you know my shepherd. I shall not want.

Psalm 23 v 1 (ESV – English Standard Version)

1The Lord is my shepherd; I shall not want.

Everyone has this read at funerals and stuff like that. But did you know it was actually teaching that God wants to give you money. Apparently I had no idea. But we are going to find out how this is the case.

Psalm 23 v 1 (ESV – English Standard Version)

1The Lord is my shepherd; I shall not want.

And again it is significant to note that Steven Furtick is well tonight teaching at Hillsong’s Conference and I think it is perfectly clear where Steven Furtick is now. He is a Word of Faith light prosperity preacher. He is hanging out with people who are just of his ilk. Joyce Meyer, Brian Houston, you know folks like that. I mean is it any coincidence that he was with Phil Pringle and Kong Hee earlier this year? Why he was shilling for money from Genesis 22. No, see that is kind of what these guys are all about. Twisting God’s Word, scratching ears, tickling ears and well not preaching Christ, no preaching about prosperity.

You can be just like him, if you make the right decisions in the valley of decision. Then on the Mountain of Provision God will provide for you. Big time just like He did for….anyway. Let’s kill the music. Without any further or due here is Brian Houston and his sermon entitled Lack vs. Overflow. Here we go….”

Brian Houston, “You know Psalm 30 v 5 says, ‘God’s anger is for a moment. But his favour is for life.’

Psalm 30 v 5 (NKJV – New King James Version)

For His anger is but for a moment,
His favour is for life;

Weeping may endure for a night,
But joy comes in the morning.

Favour is for life, a lot of people think of God in terms of the great majority of God’s attitude to people being anger and every now and then a little glimpse, a little breakthrough of favour. But in actual fact this Psalm says exactly the opposite. It says God’s anger is for a moment. But his favour is for life.

Psalm 30 v 5 (NKJV – New King James Version)

For His anger is but for a moment,
His favour is for life;

It is the will of God for your life to be blessed by the favour of God, of that I have no doubt because our lives are not just about us. It lives are about the purpose of God, our lives are about those things that God is wanting to do in us and through us in Jesus name. So if you come into church tonight with this mindset, this concept, this kind of religious thinking that God is mad and angry with you and waiting to pounce and judge you and every now and then because you weren’t good enough and you have got a little glimpse of God’s favour….”

Chris Rosebrough, “So if you come to church with the idea that God is wrathful. That He is going to judge the living and the dead. Oh you have missed the whole point. No put all that wrath stuff away. God wants to, all He wants to do is bless your socks off and all you have got to do is be obedient and you will yeah uh hmm…..”

Brian Houston, “So if you come into church tonight with this mindset, this concept, this kind of religious thinking that God is mad and angry with you and waiting to pounce and judge you and every now and then because you weren’t good for enough and you have got a little glimpse of God’s favour.

You need to turn that upside down and realise that through Jesus Christ God’s anger is but for a moment, but His favour is for life and it is the will of God to set your life up with His favour. So you can fulfil the promise of God in your life.”

Chris Rosebrough, “Uh see God just wants to bless you with all kinds of favour, so that you can accomplish His purposes. See this is a kinder, gentler gospel than the biblical gospel of repentance and the forgiveness of sins in Jesus name….”

Brian Houston, “You need to turn that upside down and realise that through Jesus Christ God’s anger is but for a moment, but his favour is for life and it is the will of God to set your life up with His favour. So you can fulfil the promise of God in your life and in your home and in your marriage in the name of Jesus Christ.

Psalm 23 the psalmist David declares with faith that the LORD is his shepherd.

Psalm 23 v 1 (NKJV – New King James Version)

1 The Lord is my shepherd;
I shall not want.

That is a determined shall not. I shall not want he says.

Psalm 23 v 2-5 (NKJV – New King James Version)

He makes me to lie down in green pastures;
He leads me beside the still waters.
He restores my soul;
He leads me in the paths of righteousness
For His name’s sake.

Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death,
I will fear no evil;
For You are with me;
Your rod and Your staff, they comfort me.

You prepare a table before me in the presence of my enemies;
You anoint my head with oil;
My cup runs over.

I love that….”

Chris Rosebrough, “Yeah I am sure you do. I am sure you only think that is referring to money.

Psalm 23 v 5-6 (NKJV – New King James Version)

5 My cup runs over.
Surely goodness and mercy shall follow me
All the days of my life;
And I will dwell in the house of the Lord
Forever.

            Psalm 23 v 1, 5, 6 (NKJV – New King James Version)

1 The Lord is my shepherd;
I shall not want.

5 My cup runs over.

All the days of my life….

Favour is for life.

Psalm 23 v 6 (NKJV – New King James Version)

And I will dwell in the house of the Lord
Forever.

And I will dwell…..”

Chris Rosebrough, “Yeah seriously why should we be reading this Psalm at funerals and stuff? This is all about God wanting you to have favour and prosperity and wealth and influence and affluence and you can be at the top of the ponzi scheme just like Brian Houston is!!!

Brian Houston, “Psalm 23 v 6 (NKJV – New King James Version)

And I will dwell in the house of the Lord
Forever.

Psalm 23 v 1, 5

1 I shall not want

5 My cup overflows

[v1 is quoted the NKJV, v5 is quoted from the NIV]

I shall not want. I shall overflow. What do you believe is God’s will for your life? Want or overflow? What do you believe is the most spiritual way to live your life? With an expectation of favour and blessing and overflow, or for a contentment with lack. Because many people glorify lack and spiritualize it and make a doctrine out of it.”

Chris Rosebrough, “This is a false dichotomy and it is based upon a misreading of Psalm 23 and by the way, the way you know he is twisting Psalm 23 is that when you read Psalm 23, it doesn’t actually say anything or set up the dichotomy between lack or provision or abundance or anything like that. Let me read it to you again.

Psalm 23 v 1-4 (ESV – English Standard Version)

1 The Lord is my shepherd; I shall not want.
2 He makes me lie down in green pastures.
He leads me beside still waters.
He restores my soul.
He leads me in paths of righteousness
for his name’s sake.

Even though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death,

Now that doesn’t sound like you know an amazing situation. Quite the contrary…..

Psalm 23 v 4 (ESV – English Standard Version)

I will fear no evil,
for you are with me;
your rod and your staff,

Those are disciplining tools of the shepherd.

Psalm 23 v 4-6 (ESV – English Standard Version) 

They comfort me.

You prepare a table before me
in the presence of my enemies;
you anoint my head with oil;
my cup overflows.
Surely goodness and mercy shall follow me
all the days of my life,
and I shall dwell in the house of the Lord
forever.”

Goodness and mercy are not the same things as well money, and provision, and things like that that. Another clear rule here when you are looking at the scriptures is you always look at clear passages that address the topic and they govern rather than unclear. So here is the idea we are going to, we are going to basically say he is not rightly even setting up the biblical categories. Let me give you passage that talks directly to the issue that Brian Houston is apparently trying to bring up.

Philippians 4 v 10-13 (ESV – English Standard Version)

10 I rejoiced in the Lord greatly that now at length you have revived your concern for me. You were indeed concerned for me, but you had no opportunity. 11 Not that I am speaking of being in need, for I have learned in whatever situation I am to be content. 12 I know how to be brought low, and I know how to abound. In any and every circumstance, I have learned the secret of facing plenty and hunger, abundance and need. 13 I can do all things through him who strengthens me.

Ah okay so you have learned in whatever situation to be content. So The Bible here doesn’t setup a dichotomy and basically says God is only in this life, only going to give you plenty and lots of and lots of monetary stuff. It doesn’t say that. Because if that were the case we would see that in the lives of the apostles, instead the apostle Paul makes it clear that he has learned that in whatever situation that he is content.

Philippians 4 v 12-13 (ESV – English Standard Version)

12 I know how to be brought low, and I know how to abound. In any and every circumstance, I have learned the secret of facing plenty and hunger, abundance and need. 13 I can do all things through him who strengthens me.

He never….nowhere does the apostle say that ‘Listen it is completely contrary to God’s Word and what He wants for you. For you to have a situation in your life where you are in need, where you have a lack, Paul says that he has learned to be content even when he is facing hunger and need.’ See so who are going to trust? The apostle Paul and scripture or Brian Houston who is clearly at this point twisting God’s Word and making it say something that it doesn’t say. We continue….”

Brian Houston, “What do you believe is God’s will for your life? Want or overflow? What do you believe is the most spiritual way to live your life? With an expectation of favour and blessing and overflow, or for a contentment with lack. Because many people glorify lack and spiritualize it and make a doctrine out of it. But to me the great theme of God’s Word is that God wants to bless you with His grace and His favour and with overflow and I believe you should have the raw courage that David had even as he walks through the valley near the shadow of death. Which is one that says…..

Psalm 23 v 1

1 I shall not want….

He sounds pretty determined about that….”

Chris Rosebrough, “Hmm…..that is not what he is talking about. He is not talking about money…..”

Brian Houston, “Psalm 23 v 1, ‘I shall not want.’ There maybe a G.F.C. There maybe things working against me. These maybe dark dull dim days, maybe every reason why I shouldn’t want, but I shall not want. He says….

Psalm 23 v 5

5 My cup runs over

Do you know to want it literally means to diminish, to decrease, to deplete or literally it means to be in lack. To overflow means to replenish….”

Chris Rosebrough, “Oh it sounds like such a biblical sermon since he has taken the time to define lack and overflow…..”

Brian Houston, “To overflow means to replenish, to saturate, to drench that is the spirit of overflow. Literally to enrich, to make abundant…..”

Chris Rosebrough, “Philippians 4 v 11-13 (ESV – English Standard Version)

11 For I have learned in whatever situation I am to be content. 12 I know how to be brought low, and I know how to abound. In any and every circumstance, I have learned the secret of facing plenty and hunger, abundance and need. 13 I can do all things through him who strengthens me.

See Christ will strengthen you even

when you are in a time of need and hunger. Uh hmm….”

Brian Houston, “I just got it in my heart that this year people should believe for a spirit of overflow in your life and overflow goes beyond just even being filled up. Overflow is to saturate, to drench. It is a powerful thought. It is to live in abundance and the tragedy to me is that you can glorify lack as much as you like and so many people are bound by a lack of ideas, a lack of vision, a lack of creativity, a lack of real belief and what God can do.

Perhaps a lack of wisdom, a lack of understanding, lack of judgement – you can live your life feeling like you have a lack of opportunity. You can live your life in lack with money. You can live in lack with resource. But don’t ever think that there is something God glorifying about lack. Because all it is ever doing is inhibiting you from what God has actually called you to do. Your hands are bound because of lack.

Chris Rosebrough, “Wow so people want to inhibit you huh?”

Brian Houston, “It means to diminish a positive. So in other words every young person can have a great education and you see that as a positive, a lack of education is the diminishing of that positive or the diminishing of an opportunity. Proverbs 13 v 23 one of the scriptures that I have talked about many times over the years, because it says

Proverbs 13 v 23

23 There is much food in the fellow ground of the poor.

Literally the uncultivated ground of the poor,

Proverbs 13 v 23 (NKJV – New King James Version)

23 But through lack of justice there waste.

Through lack of opportunity of lack of injustice and you can visit….”

Chris Rosebrough, “Justice and opportunity are two different things. Listen to this….

            Proverbs 13 v 23 (ESV – English Standard Version)

23 The fallow ground of the poor would yield much food,
but it is swept away through injustice.

This is talking about well theft, bad government. Things like that. Evil rulers, injustice. It is not saying lack of opportunity. Oh man….”

Brian Houston, “Through lack of opportunity of lack of injustice and you can visit countries around the world. We just did in South America and you can in Africa and other places where the soil is so fertile and there is so much food or so much potential that stays in the uncultivated ground of the poor. Because of lack of opportunity and that is the thing about lack. It is a depleting or a diminishing of an opportunity….”

Chris Rosebrough, “Now what an earth does real poor people in real third world nations have to do with this sermon?”

Brian Houston, “And so many people have get this contentment about lack and almost this pseudo spirituality about lack….”

Chris Rosebrough, “Hmm….the apostle Paul said he was content even in hunger and need. Because he could do all things through Christ who strengthens him, including get through that. So you are taking a swipe at the apostle Paul? You know better than him?”

Brian Houston, “And so many people have get this contentment about lack and almost this pseudo spirituality about lack as though that is the way to serve God and sadly many people because they don’t have that…..

Psalm 23 v 1, 5

I shall not want

I shall overflow

My cup runs over.

Mindset – they settle for less than God’s intention and by settling for something less than God’s intention then they live inhibited….”

Chris Rosebrough, “So apparently there it is I mean you basically take Psalm 23 and turn it into a Word of Faith mantra that you just keep blurting out and then God has to bless you because you believe that you God wants to give you abundance.”

Brian Houston, “And so many people have get this contentment about lack and almost this pseudo spirituality about lack as though that is the way to serve God and sadly many people because they don’t have that…..

Psalm 23 v 1, 5

I shall not want

I shall overflow

My cup runs over.

Mindset – they settle for less than God’s intention and by settling for something less than God’s intention then they live inhibited. The opportunity for potential. The capacity to do something beyond yourself. To actually make a difference. We can have all the compassion that we want. We can have all of the vision that we like. We can have all of the you know dreams that you can muster. But if it is just held back by lack and you have a faith or a belief that somehow believes that lack is God’s will for you, then all you are going to do is sit there stifled and frustrated about a God given vision.

So why don’t we believe Hillsong church 2012 for a spirit of overflow.

Psalm 23 v 1, 5

1 I shall not want

5My cup overflows

Chris Rosebrough, “Wow you know I…a particular passage of scripture comes to mind and that is actually well 2 Timothy, I would say 2 Timothy 3.

2 Timothy 3 v 1-2 (ESV – English Standard Version)

1 But understand this, that in the last days there will come times of difficulty. For people will be lovers of self,

Steven Furtick…..

            2 Timothy 3 v 2 (ESV – English Standard Version)

2 Lovers of money,

Steven Furtick, Perry Noble, Brian Houston and all the others Word of Faith folks.

            2 Timothy 3 v 2-5 (ESV – English Standard Version)

2 Proud, arrogant, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy, heartless, unappeasable, slanderous, without self-control, brutal, not loving good,treacherous, reckless, swollen with conceit, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God, having the appearance of godliness, but denying its power. Avoid such people.

Yeah I think the apostle Paul was prophesying about men like Steven Furtick and Brian Houston and other Word of Faith heretics. We continue….”

Brian Houston, “Psalm 23 v 5, ‘My cup overflows. My cup runs over.’ I am believing to hear running over type testimonies all this year through of people whose cup is overflowing. One time we looked in that cup and it was like mother hubbard’s cupboard. It may have been bear. But let’s believe that your cup is going to overflow in Jesus name and you are going to be telling such stories of the blessing of God. Because we are not going to make it about ourselves, we are going to make it about what God has called us to do in Jesus name….”

Chris Rosebrough, “Yeah actually that is just double talk. This is nothing but about yourself….”

Brian Houston, “….Let’s believe that your cup is going to overflow in Jesus name and you are going to be telling such stories of the blessing of God. Because we are not going to make it about ourselves, we are going to make it about what God has called us to do in Jesus name….”

Chris Rosebrough, “Oh and your bank account….”

Brian Houston, “So never ever accept the spiritualizing or you know of lack. When it is simply holding lack people’s opportunity to do what God has called them to do in Jesus name. You know….”

Chris Rosebrough, Yeah apparently this makes it Christian. Because all he has to do is tell you something false, scratch your itching ears. Tell you, ‘Oh God wants you to have all kinds of money.’ And then it becomes Christian because he goes, ‘In Jesus name.’ Say wow that is amazing….”

Brian Houston, “You know overflow is such a theme in God’s Word. Such a theme in God’s Word has said in 2 Corinthians 9 v 8, it says….

2 Corinthians 9 v 8 (NKJV – New King James Version)

And God is able to make all grace abound toward you, that you, always having all sufficiency in all things, may have an abundance for every good work.

Chris Rosebrough, “Woah got to be careful here that is a subtle twist. Yeah let me show it to you from a good translation so that you can kind of see what is going on here. Just that an abundance for every good work. That is not exactly what the text says, a subtle twist but watch what it says….

2 Corinthians 9 v 8 (ESV – English Standard Version)

And God is able to make all grace abound to you, so that having all sufficiency in all things at all times,

Notice sufficiency not abundance…..

2 Corinthians 9 v 8 (ESV – English Standard Version)

8 Having all sufficiency in all things at all times, you may abound in every good work.

That you may abound in every good work and that is basically what the Greek says itself too. “Dynatei de ho theos pasan charin perisseusai eis hymas hina en panti pantote pasan autarkeian echontes perisseuēte eis pan ergon agathon

δυνατεῖ δὲ ὁ θεὸς πᾶσαν χάριν περισσεῦσαι εἰς ὑμᾶς ἵνα ἐν παντὶ πάντοτε πᾶσαν αὐτάρκειαν ἔχοντες περισσεύητε εἰς πᾶν ἔργον ἀγαθόν

So the Greek does definitely say this.

2 Corinthians 9 v 8 (ESV – English Standard Version)

8 So that you may abound into every good work.

It doesn’t say abundance for, it says abound in every good work. This is there is a big difference here and that eis pan ergon agathon is way different than what he is saying here. It is a subtle twist and you would miss it if you….I mean that one is so quick that you….if you blink you would miss it. But I think what he is basically trying to say here is oh the reason why God wants to give you an abundance is so that you can you know so that He can provide you with a provision for all the good works and purpose that He has for you.

That is not what the text says. It is that you have sufficiency for…so that you can abound in good works. It is not an abundance for good works. Wow that was a subtle twist…”

2 Corinthians 9 v 8

And God is able to make all grace, all favour abound toward you, that you, always having all sufficiency in all things, may have an abundance for every good work.

And that is the whole thing about abundance. That is a for or there is a because, there is a reason to it….”

Chris Rosebrough, “No that is not what the Greek text says. It is abound into, not abundance for, but abound in good works. Seriously the conjunction is the thing that makes it or breaks it here.”

Brian Houston, “That is because there is a good work that God has called you to do. 2 Corinthians 9 v 8 talks about what God is able to do. But in fact the scripture is filled with what God is able to do. We sing God is able. Ephesians 3 v 20 it says….

Ephesians 3 v 20 (ESV – English Standard Version)

20 Now to Him who is able to do exceedingly abundantly above all that we ask or think….”

Chris Rosebrough, “Notice every passage ripped out of context. Just strung together like pearls to weave together this theology. This is not based upon any text in context and even what he did with Psalm 23 is an abuse of the text. Eisegeting into it basically monetary provision….”

Brian Houston, “Ephesians 3 v 20 (ESV – English Standard Version)

20 Now to Him who is able to do exceedingly abundantly above all that we ask or think….

And they are all Bible words when it talks about exceeding, going beyond. It is a Bible word. 2 Peter 1 v 4 talks about his exceeding great promises.

2 Peter 1 v 4 (NKJV – New King James Version)

By which have been given to us exceedingly great and precious promises….

Exceeding do you have that kind of heart towards God. That he doesn’t just want to live up to your faith, live up to your dream. He wants to take you exceedingly, abundantly above what you could ever ask or think….”

Chris Rosebrough, “Yeah again that is talking about stuff in the eschaton. Oh man this is just one litany of prosperity heresy wow…..”

Brian Houston, “Man you know let’s not even have that hope that one day God will answer our prayers. Let’s cancel all that stuff and start living with an expectation of a God who is able to do exceedingly, His great exceeding precious promises….”

Chris Rosebrough, “Yeah live with an expectation. Man there is no humble, no fear of God, you know no petitions. It is oh I expect God to deliver on this….”

Brian Houston, “Man you know let’s not even have that hope that one day God will answer our prayers. Let’s cancel all that stuff and start living with an expectation of a God who is able to do exceedingly, His great exceeding and precious promises the Word talks about. Have we got that scripture that talks about the promise of God? Listen to it is 2 Peter 1 v 4…..

2 Peter 1 v 4 (NKJV – New King James Version)

By which have been given to us exceedingly great and precious promises….

Do you know I just feel it in my heart to lift people’s spirits….”

Chris Rosebrough, “Yeah you are going to read part of a sentence. By the way v4 begins with the word by which, which tells you there is a bigger context going on. Don’t you think you might want to take a look at the bigger context? Yeah I always you need to when somebody is taking verses out of context, pause put them back in context. Even if it is me, especially if it is me…..

2 Peter 1 v 1 (ESV – English Standard Version)

1 Simeon Peter, a servant and apostle of Jesus Christ,

To those who have obtained a faith of equal standing with ours by the righteousness of our God and Saviour Jesus Christ:

2 Peter 1 v 2 (ESV – English Standard Version)

May grace and peace be multiplied to you in the knowledge of God and of Jesus our Lord.

Confirm Your Calling and Election

His divine power has granted to us all things that pertain to life and godliness, through the knowledge of him who called us to his own glory and excellence, by which he has granted to us his precious and very great promises, so that through them you may become partakers of the divine nature, having escaped from the corruption that is in the world because of sinful desire.

For this very reason, make every effort to supplement your faith with virtue, and virtue with knowledge, and knowledge with self-control, and self-control with steadfastness, and steadfastness with godliness,and godliness with brotherly affection, and brotherly affection with love.

 For if these qualities are yours and are increasing, they keep you from being ineffective or unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Well the great promises have nothing to do with wealth or abundance there….

Brian Houston, “Do you know I just feel it in my heart to lift people’s spirits and to lift people’s faith and lift your expectation of God. Because I want to encourage you to be thinking of God in terms of exceedingly great and precious promises. You know we are standing on the promises of God our king.

To the middle ages let the doo doo ring. Standing on the promises of God, standing standing on the promises. I am standing the promises of God. Wow if we start thinking by the way. I reckon someone ought to start singing in a new song about the promise of God.

Because the promise of God is something yes you can stand on it. Because it is exceeding, it is great and it is precious and that is the Spirit of overflow. That is the Spirit of God toward our lives in Jesus name. Exceeding, abundant, it is life abundant that the Word talks about. Above you are above and not beneath. You are the head and not the tail. Friends this might just sound like good old pump you up faith type preaching and I hope it is because my spirit….

Chris Rosebrough, “Yeah no this is flat out heresy….”

Brian Houston, “Friends this might just sound like good old pump you up faith type preaching and I hope it is because my spirit is all about wanting to pump people in Jesus name and get you believing in the exceeding promises of God….”

Chris Rosebrough, “False Jesus – false gospel, twisting of God’s Word. None of this is true. This is not the gospel.”

Brian Houston, “You know it is so easy to have an ordinary faith where we just hang back and we go to church and we know God does good stuff and we get blessed by other people testimony. But it is time to step up and start believing God for his….oh here is someone I know. That we can start believing God chi chong for his….come on stand up Jay….stand up….alright now I am your pastor. I am a man of God. Hit me….”

Chris Rosebrough, “No he is not a man of God….”

Brian Houston, “Oh come on. I didn’t hurt him. I know I didn’t hurt him. He is made. He is like a rock unbelievable. If I hurt anything it is my wrist that is all. It is a constant theme of the scripture. That whole idea of God’s abundance, God’s overflow and the reason that people you know get nervous about it is because they think through eyes of selfishness and they presume immediately we are talking greed.

They presume when thinking about self, and ourselves and laying up treasures on earth. Forgetting what we are all about. Laying up treasures in heaven and seeing the will of God on earth fulfilled, all about the eternal purpose of God in heaven in Jesus name. So don’t be afraid to believe God….”

Chris Rosebrough, “Notice this is all double talk. So if you are challenging him and what he is saying, it is because well you are just greedy and yet he is the one who is flat out greedy….”

Brian Houston, “So don’t be afraid to believe God. Have a raw faith. That you will have the wisdom that will find life and obtain favour, because he who finds wisdom obtains the favour of the LORD in Jesus name. Praise God you the know the spirit of overflow and abundance it really is just a great example of God’s supernatural ability…..”

Chris Rosebrough, “A spirit of abundance. Yeah it doesn’t matter how many times you say it. It is still not a biblical teaching the way you are teaching it.

Brian Houston, “Praise God you the know the spirit of overflow and abundance it really is just a great example of God’s supernatural ability. Well God is able to do. Yeah never underestimate what God is able to do.”

Chris Rosebrough, “Yeah I understand God is omnipotent. So yeah He is able to do a lot of things. He spoke the entire universe into existence in six days. God is capable of some pretty amazing things. No problem with that whatsoever.

Just because He is able to do something, doesn’t mean that it is His will to do so. You seem to think that God is going to be impressed by your ability to believe He is capable of big things. You are supposed to be preaching repentance and the forgiveness of sins in Jesus name because that is the big promise we are all to be hanging onto and proclaiming.”

Brian Houston, “Sometimes you can look back on life at a miracle and you think, ‘Wow where did that come from?’ Because it is just exceeding and abundant and above what you could you ever have asked or thought. I have never been to Israel. Bobbie had never been to Israel and a few years ago some of you would know that one time we got this formal invitation from the government of Israel to come to Israel and not only a formal invitation, but air fares and good air fares by the way.

Oh no all our airlines and we got there and we didn’t even have to go through the security. We are talking Israel. We are taking through the special diplomatic type queue and we are put in a nice car and taken through and put in a City of David hotel room right in the middle of the city, where we looked down over the Mount of Olives which is so significant for believers and it is like, ‘what are we doing here?’

And then we spent of time with a few other believers that were brought in and key people from around the world. But what I found out after a while was that every other person that was there had been to Israel sixty or seventy times and it brought all of these people into Israel and had some kind of an engagement and connection with Israel. But Bobbie and I had never been to Israel in our lives. As a matter of fact I have never been since either and the next day we find ourselves going through security into Knesset, into the parliament. The Israel parliament….”

Chris Rosebrough, “I have know idea what this has to do with The Bible!

Brian Houston, “….Bobbie and I had never been to Israel in our lives. As a matter of fact I have never been since either and the next day we find ourselves going through security into Knesset, into the parliament. The Israel parliament, into the cabinet room where we sat with Ariel Sharon who was then prime minister president of Israel with Ehud who was the next guy.

The next president right beside him and we talked about all sorts of things and Sharon talked to Bobbie and I about Australia and about how Australia had stood by Israel and about the light horsemen and about some of Australia’s war history and it is like, ‘What are we doing here?’ And the next day we went out to the sea of Galilee….”

Chris Rosebrough, “Yeah what are you preaching this for?”

Brian Houston, “….Bobbie and I had never been to Israel in our lives. As a matter of fact I have never been since either and the next day we find ourselves going through security into Knesset, into the parliament. The Israel parliament, into the cabinet room where we sat with Ariel Sharon who was then prime minister president of Israel with Ehud who was the next guy.

The next president right beside him and we talked about all sorts of things and Sharon talked to Bobbie and I about Australia and about how Australia had stood by Israel and about the light horsemen and about some of Australia’s war history and it is like, ‘What are we doing here?’

And the next day we went out to the sea of Galilee where we met who was now the current prime minister Benjamin Netanyahu and we were sitting and conversing with him and having a cup of coffee and he takes us and shows us a dock and we are out there and we are on a pier in the sea of Galilee on a little row boat full of American tourists with yellow caps on going by singing shout to the LORD all the earth let us sing.

True story and it is like what are we doing here? And it went on like that for two days or so and after two days we went back into the airport and we are taken through – avoided security again. Helped onto the airplane, got on the airplane and to this day I don’t even quite know what it was about. But…..”

Chris Rosebrough, “Then why are you preaching about it?”

Brian Houston, “But our God is able to do exceedingly abundant and above everything you could ever ask or think. Because that is the God we love and serve in Jesus name….”

Chris Rosebrough, “Oh right so there is thank God it was short. But for as short as it was tightly packed with really bad narcissistic money grubbing completely wrong theology – the prosperity heresy and who is Steven Furtick hanging out with today? Oh yeah that is right Brian Houston. He is teaching at Hillsong.

Yeah it is pretty clear that Steven Furtick has cast his lot with these guys and they aren’t teaching the truth. Even when the biblical text is about Jesus they don’t preach Jesus. Strange huh and yet they tell everybody it is all about them wanting people to meet Jesus. How can they meet Him if you don’t preach Him. It is a fair question to ask.

Alright we are at the end of another edition of Fighting for the Faith. If you would like to hear me regarding anything you have heard on this edition or any previous editions of Fighting for the Faith. You can do so my email address is talkback@fightingforthefaith.com or you can ask to be my friend on Facebook. It is facebook.com/piratechristian or you can follow me on Twitter. My name there is @piratechristian. Until tomorrow may God richly bless you in the grace and mercy won by Jesus Christ and His vicarious death on the cross for all of your sins amen.

Fighting for the Faith With Chris Rosebrough – Brian Houston Turns Liabilities Into Opportunities

[Second segment - 00:39:04 - 01:00:25]

Chris Rosebrough, “We continue…..time for a money grubbing televangelist update and Brian Houston being one of them.

Opportunities (Let’s Make Lots of Money)”

I have got the brains, you’ve got the looks
Let’s make lots of money
You have got the brawn, I have got the brains
Let’s make lots of -

I have had enough of scheming and messing around with jerks
My car is parked outside, I’m afraid it doesn’t work
I am looking for a partner, someone who gets things fixed
Ask yourself this question: Do you want to be rich?

I have got the brains, you’ve got the looks
Let’s make lots of money
You have got the brawn, I have got the brains
Let’s make lots of money

Yeah alright enough of that, alright so it is all about making money, at least that is what it is with the money grubbing televangelists. Now Brian Houston of Hillsong out there in Sydney Australia, he is one of these guys who well he is a TBN televangelist and so you know money is a very important aspect of what he does there. But that is not going to be the focus of what we are going to be listening to.

We are going to be listening to a quote, at least a portion of a sermon recently preaching by him called Turning Limitation into Opportunity and of course I have no idea what this has to do with sound biblical doctrine, Christian theology, repentance and the forgiveness of sins in Jesus name, or His vicarious penal substitutionary death on the cross.

It has nothing to do with that and in fact I – this is just one of those times where Brian Houston again I am not even sure what the point of him quoting a biblical passage is because where in scripture, that you are aware of does it teach us listen we need to turn limitations into quote you know quote opportunities?

I am not familiar with those passages but boy this is a message that sure would make people feel good about themselves really, I mean really really good and inspire them to take you know their things in their life so they feel our limitations and turn them into opportunities. So but so see the thing is that is somebody a Christian by taking limitations and turning it into opportunities?

No, what if you spend your entire life never able to flip your limitations into opportunities and you spend your entire life and then die – somebody who is limited. Do you go to hell? I mean you know what shall we make of that? I mean I think of those passages in scripture. You know where you know the apostle Paul writing under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit says to you know to slaves, people who are in they don’t even own themselves, they are owned by somebody else.

Ephesians 6 v 5 (ESV – English Standard Version)

Bondservants, obey your earthly masters with fear and trembling, with a sincere heart, as you would Christ,

Slaves obey your masters. Talk about a limitation. He didn’t talk about the opportunity of you know name it and claim it and win your freedom through your positive attitude and things and you know those passages don’t exist. Although it does say you know if you can make yourself free do so you can. But you know in the mean time ‘Slaves obey your masters.’ And you might end up dying a slave. Not that I am condoning slavery. But you get what I saying here.

This doesn’t seem to be well even part and parcel of the major biblical emphasis that we get when we read the entire counsel of the Word of God. But here is Brian Houston – let’s let him make the case we will see if this is even a biblical teaching. Here we go…..

Brian Houston, “Judges 3 v 15 very important. This message is called Turning Limitation into Opportunity. Turning limitation into Opportunity…..

Judges 3 v 15 (NKJV – New King James Version)

15 But when the children of Israel cried out to the Lord,

Chris Rosebrough, “Now this is Judges 3 v 15 that he is having us read….”

Judges 3 v 15 (NKJV – New King James Version)

15 But when the children of Israel cried out to the Lord, the Lord raised up a deliverer for them: Ehud…..

He is a significant man…..

Judges 3 v 15 (NKJV – New King James Version)

15 The son of Gera….

Chris Rosebrough, “Judges 3 this is a limitation turning into an opportunity. What we might have to spend a couple of segments on this sermon.

Judges 3 v 15 (NKJV – New King James Version)

15 The Benjamite, a left-handed man. By him the children of Israel sent tribute to Eglon king of Moab.

What is significant Ehud the son of Gera the Benjamite, a left handed man, all the left hander’s in the room stand to your feet. Notice how many there are, you see I want to talk to you people because we I am a left handed person myself, we are a marginalised minority group. But I do want to make these comments that will prove to you that left handers are a marginalised group when it comes to the way the world works.

So for example the way that the paper that you write on works, it works for a right hander because you write from this side of the page to that side which means that your hand basically goes across the page, a left hander our hand goes so that we smudge the work behind us and you think that we are just untidy or not neat….”

Chris Rosebrough, “Alright let’s yeah not that I am trying to jump the gun here. But let’s take a look at this Judges 3 passage to see if we can figure out what an earth he is doing here. I bet we can kind of deconstruct this and figure out where he is going with this. Because one thing I have learned from televangelists is they have a really bad habit of telegraphing their punches. So apparently so Judges 3, now he was reading v15 about a left handed Benjamite by the name of Ehud.

Let’s take a look and see if okay so the what will be the limitation there? Oh yeah he was left handed. Huh oh yeah because we all know how limiting being left handed is, I mean you might as well cut off your left hand in order to function in a right handed world. Right I mean that is a limitation. It is practically a handicap. So we are going to answer the question here is Judges 3 the story of Ehud, a story about overcoming limitations and turning them into opportunities.

Well let’s take a look at what is going on here. We will start in v12. The reason why is because we want to get context. Judges 3 v 12, here is what it says….

Judges 3 v 12 (ESV – English Standard Version)

12 And the people of Israel again did what was evil in the sight of the Lord, and the Lord strengthened Eglon the king of Moab against Israel, because they had done what was evil in the sight of the Lord.

Agh so the people of Israel did what was evil. You can read into that and think idolatry. They were worshipping other gods and things like that so God punishes them and puts them into the hands of you know other nations and in this case it is Eglon the king of Moab.

Judges 3 v 13-15 (ESV – English Standard Version)

13 He gathered to himself the Ammonites and the Amalekites, and went and defeated Israel. And they took possession of the city of palms. 14 And the people of Israel served Eglon the king of Moab eighteen years.15 Then the people of Israel cried out to the Lord, and the Lord raised up for them a deliverer, Ehud, the son of Gera, the Benjaminite, a left-handed man.

Now just to make this clear, I am pretty sure that being left handed wasn’t a handicap or a limitation. In fact I don’t think scripture describes it as that way. But let’s see what happens here, so Ehud…..

Judges 3 v 15-22 (ESV – English Standard Version)

15 The people of Israel sent tribute by him to Eglon the king of Moab. 16 And Ehud made for himself a sword with two edges, a cubitin length, and he bound it on his right thigh under his clothes. 17 And he presented the tribute to Eglon king of Moab. Now Eglon was a very fat man. 18 And when Ehud had finished presenting the tribute, he sent away the people who carried the tribute. 19 But he himself turned back at the idols near Gilgal and said, “I have a secret message for you, O king.” And he commanded, “Silence.” And all his attendants went out from his presence.

20 And Ehud came to him as he was sitting alone in his cool roof chamber. And Ehud said, “I have a message from God for you.” And he arose from his seat. 21 And Ehud reached with his left hand, took the sword from his right thigh, and thrust it into his belly.22 And the hilt also went in after the blade, and the fat closed over the blade, for he did not pull the sword out of his belly; and the dung came out.

Yeah this is what the text says.

Judges 3 v 23 (ESV – English Standard Version)

23 Then Ehud went out into the porch and closed the doors of the roof chamber behind him and locked them.

Uh hmm this is not a story about overcoming limitations and turning them into an opportunity. This is a story of sinful people, being sold in slavery, whom God then sends a deliverer to rescue them. That is what this story is about. It is not about overcoming limitations. It is about being delivered.

Okay so already we are this is not good. So it is pretty clear what well Brian Houston is doing here. He is equating left handedness with a limitation. But that then could be your opportunity to be used by God apparently something like that.

Brian Houston, “So for example the way that the paper that you write on works, it works for a right hander because you write from this side of the page to that side which means that your hand basically goes across the page, a left hander our hand goes so that we smudge the work behind us and you think that we are just untidy or not neat.

But the fact is we have to hold our hand over the things that we have just written and also our view is blocked of what we have written. I believe for left handers we should have learnt it and be quite encouraged to be able to write on this way on the page and it would be up to everybody else to….

How many left handers here have noticed that if ever you are given a receipt for your card. Your credit or your debit card and you have to sign it. That almost ninety nine point nine percent of the time they will put it up on the counter. But they will put it on the angle for a right handed person to sign it…..”

Chris Rosebrough, “This is so sad I mean oh Brian Houston has been suffering from a left handed handicap his entire time! He has been limited!”

Brian Houston, “Ninety nine point nine percent of the time and you just have to get used to turning around to the left hand and signing it with the left hand. How many people have noticed that presumption if you are a left hander and can identify with exactly what I am saying?

When I worked as a young guy I worked during Bible college and just after Bible college, when I was getting started in Youth Ministry and so on as a roofer. I used to put corrugated iron on roofs and so for the valleys and so I would have to cut the corrugated iron and the thing is my boss never ever did give me left handed tins nuts….”

Chris Rosebrough, “Oh no oh I hope you figured out how to turn that into an opportunity….”

Brian Houston, “We sure didn’t have anything electrical to cut the corrugated iron with. So this iron it is you know sizable. It is long and if I was cutting an angle, then I would be using right handed snips in my left hand which is already difficult and then you would have to hold this part of what you were doing and as you go you had to hold it in front of you and so basically curl it around you and so that you were working in the blind and sort of corrugated iron. I mean it is sharp. It has got pointy ends on it and so on….”

Chris Rosebrough, “Oh no did you get a paper cut?”

Brian Houston, “Anything could have happened. But that is the life of a left hander. That is just some of the stuff. We are limited. We are limited it seems…..”

Chris Rosebrough, “Oh yeah oh no, oh man this is bringing a tear to my eye. Not really but….”

Brian Houston, “An opportunity because of our defect. When it comes to eating….”

Chris Rosebrough, “Oh he is really going to continue on this theme. I don’t even think the people at Hillsong really think this is a real limitation.”

Brian Houston, “You can guarantee that they are going to put your glass or your cup on the right handers side.”

Chris Rosebrough, “Oh no and you probably are not capable of moving it to the left hand side. Yeah oh terrible…..”

Brian Houston, “And they will put the bread on the right handers side and then you put your glass where it needs to be as a left hander on the left side and then the person next to you gets annoyed with you because they don’t know which is your glass and which is their glass…..”

Chris Rosebrough, “Oh this is such a terrible limitation….”

Brian Houston, “And well I just think it is time there was a change. That is what I think and it is good to me to know that to my knowledge there is no specific individual to whom The Bible says “A man right handed.” The person who was esteemed above anyone else in the entire scripture for the hand that they used primarily was Ehud, a man left handed you see so….”

Chris Rosebrough, “Uh hmm…..”

Brian Houston, “Why am I telling you all of that?”

Chris Rosebrough, “Yeah why?”

Brian Houston, “Because it is a fun way of telling you really that in some way or another all of us have our limitation…..”

Chris Rosebrough, “Sorry I am choking on air. Really? So the story of Ehud is a story about overcoming limitations. Oh man I am going to lose it….”

Brian Houston, “In 1 Samuel 17 tells one of The Bible’s most famous stories and of course it is the story where David confronted Goliath.”

Chris Rosebrough, “Oh boy this is by the way this is gonna, we are going to hear two different versions of how to twist the same passage here tonight.”

Brian Houston, “1 Samuel 17. So Jessie who was David’s father had a whole load of sons. His oldest son was called Eliab. His next oldest son was called Amminadab, the next one was called Shimea and then going through to the youngest whose name was David and the older sons they all were with Saul and in Saul’s armies, where as David spent time at home. But his dad sent him amongst other things to take ten cheeses.

That always makes me smile. Specifically there were ten cheeses that he had to take to his brothers on the battlefield and I guess you would have had mozzarella cheese, you would have had some goat cheese, he would have had some cheddar sliced cheese. He would have all the kind of cheese that we know. But when he got there. I am just putting part of the story in, you probably know already. But getting to the point that we need to get to….”

Chris Rosebrough, “Uh hmm….yeah please do….”

Brian Houston, “When he got through, there was quite a commotion going on. Because the Philistines were taunting God’s people and so that is the background when you get to 1 Samuel 17 v 24. It says in v23…..

1 Samuel 17 v 23-25 (NKJV – New King James Version)

23 Then as he talked with them, there was the champion, the Philistine of Gath, Goliath by name, coming up from the armies of the Philistines; and he spoke according to the same words. So David heard them. 24 And all the men of Israel, when they saw the man, fled from him and were dreadfully afraid. 25 So the men of Israel said, “Have you seen this man who has come up? Surely he has come up to defy Israel;

They were all dreadfully afraid The Bible says.

1 Samuel 17 v 25 (NKJV – New King James Version)

25 And it shall be that the man who kills him the king will enrich with great riches, will give him his daughter, and give his father’s house exemption from taxes in Israel.”

That is quite a promise right there…..

1 Samuel 17 v 26 (NKJV – New King James Version)

26 Then David spoke to the men who stood by him, saying, “What shall be done for the man who kills this Philistine and takes away the reproach from Israel? For who is this uncircumcised….

He says and then it goes on in the next verse….”

Chris Rosebrough, “So what was David’s limitation? I am very familiar with this story. I am not familiar with David’s quote limitation.”

Brian Houston, “He says and then it goes on in the next verse….”

Chris Rosebrough, “Was it that he was young? That he was you know a teenager? I mean what was his limitation? He wasn’t left handed was he?”

Brian Houston, “He says and then it goes on in the next verse….

1 Samuel 17 v 27 (NKJV – New King James Version)

27 And the people answered him in this manner, saying, “So shall it be done for the man who kills him

So that is where the story starts. But basically what the story is about is that in a world of limitation…..”

Chris Rosebrough, “The story of David and Goliath is about you know in a world of limitation we continue….”

Brian Houston, “Obviously the Philistines were huge and you know Goliath himself was just a giant of a man and not only that but there was just a lot of disdain from them and a lot of taunting from them and….”

Chris Rosebrough, “Oh yeah that taunting just limited Israel. Oh yeah of course it is  terrible. I mean those poor Israelites. They were limited in stature and they were limited by the taunting of the Philistines. How is this so popular as quote biblical preaching? It is nonsense….”

Brian Houston’s, “All of Saul’s men were fearful. But David comes in and he has a different spirit. You see in a world of limitation and this is what I want you to think about….”

Chris Rosebrough, “Yeah in a world of limitation….”

Brian Houston, “….This is what I want you to think about…..”

Chris Rosebrough, “Yep I am thinking…..”

Brian Houston, “David had an eye for opportunity….”

Chris Rosebrough, “Oh yeah in a world of limitation David had an eye for opportunity and you go what?”

Brian Houston, “Most people in a world of opportunity and I am speaking about now and today. Most people in a world of opportunity are blinded by limitation. We tend to see the limitation always before we see the opportunity. We see the barriers before we see the opportunity….”

Chris Rosebrough, “Is that a sin? What are you talking about?”

Brian Houston, “I don’t believe that Hillsong church has ever been, is now or will ever be called to be the kind of church who is ruled by our limitation. But we will be the kind….”

Chris Rosebrough, “Oh yeah you don’t want to be ruled by your….what does that even mean?

Brian Houston, “I don’t believe that Hillsong church has ever been, is now or will ever be called to be the kind of church who is ruled by our limitation. But we will be the kind of church that is challenging and committed to defying the odds….”

Chris Rosebrough, “Oh yeah you are defying the odds….”

Brian Houston, “I don’t believe that Hillsong church has ever been, is now or will ever be called to be the kind of church who is ruled by our limitation. But we will be the kind of church that is challenging and committed to defying the odds by being totally committed to opportunity….”

Chris Rosebrough, “Oh well good that you have got that out. So I don’t know what any of this means. In a world of limitations, David saw the opportunities. Ehud you know the left handed guy, he saw the opportunity as a result that was created in his world of limitations because he was left handed. This is utter nonsense and then of Hillsong church they don’t want to be defined by their limitations.

No they want to be defined by their commitment to opportunities. Uh huh weird that they are not known for their commitment to faithfully handling God’s Word and preaching Christ from all of scripture and proclaiming repentance and the forgiveness of sins in Jesus name to all nations.

No they are not known for that. In fact if they were known for that would be well too constricting. It would be very you know limiting and they don’t want to be defined by their limitations. By the way that kind of preaching, oh you will fill staves with that stuff. With the preaching of the biblical gospel not so much. It is a stumbling block. Foolishness to Greeks and well a stumbling block to Jews.

But the power of the gospel, well that is the power of God unto salvation. The biblical gospel saves people to eternal life. That message makes them you know out there looking for opportunities to seize and not be defined by their limitations all the while they are heading to hell.

What did you think? I would love to get your feedback. If you would like to email me regarding anything you have heard on this edition or any previous editions of Fighting for the Faith you can do so. My email address is talkback@figthtingforthefaith.com or you can subscribe on Facebook – www.facebook.com/piratechristian or you can follow me on Twitter. My name there is @piratechristian.

Fighting for the Faith With Chris Rosebrough – Brian Houston Twists Psalm 23

Below is a transcript taken from Chris Rosebrough’s radio show podcast Fighting For The Faith Radio podcast which was originally broadcast on Monday September 9th 2013, which you can subscribe to on iTunes. I highly recommend you do this if you want to develop discernment. 

You can also listen to this unbiblical sermon mp3 of Brian Houston’s sermon – How Lack in any Area of Life Can Diminish or Limit Your Potential. This is available from ‘The Hillsong Church – Brian Houston’ podcast.

Here is the video link for this transcript > http://youtu.be/X5APHsZ2wBM

[First segment – 00:04:45 – 00:05:28]

Chris Rosebrough, “Today we have also got a Brian Houston update and since Brian Houston falls under kind of the general money grubbing televangelist types we will be playing money music regarding him, when we get to him. But have you ever heard anybody twist Psalm 23? This is kind of a first for me. I was going back through the archives today to see if I have covered anyone really doing a shakedown of Psalm 23. But we will take a look at Brian Houston’s twisting of that particular passage today. It is not very good….”

[Second segment - 00:46:59 - 00:58:59]

Chris Rosebrough, “Alright I am going to kind of shake things up here. We will do our money grubbing televangelist update that would be Brian Houston down there in Hillsong. In order to do that we have got to do this though…..

Dr. Teeth – Money Song

Don’t want no loving
Don’t want no kissing
Don’t want no gal to call me honey

Don’t want my name in the hall of fame
Just want a big fat pile of money

Give me that all mighty dollar for that lettuce every hollar
Give me bucket full of duckets
Let me walk around and waller
In Mazuma el donaro, wanna be a millionairo
Give me money money money money money money

I want that green amunition that’s the stuff for which I’m wishing
Fill my closets with deposits
I am a demon at addition
Give me shackels, give me pesos, let me see their smiling faceos
Money money money money money money

I wanna get me a suit
That’s made out of loot
and whistle to wear it in green

I have got that monetary eye that is being like King Midas
want that golden touch is what I need

Give me that old double eagle
Want that tender that is legal
and financially substantially any sum I can envegel
I want to live in regal splendour
With that loving legal tender
Money money money money money money

I am a greenback collector
I am a paper bill inspector
I am a savage for that cabage
Man to me it’s golden necter

Pour that filthy looter on me
Spread those lovin’ germs upon me
Money money money money money money

And if they ever plant trees of E Plurbus Unum
I wanna be the guy sent out to prune ‘em
Oh give me money!

Chris Rosebrough, “There we go Dr. Teeth and Money, Money, Money. Now I went through the archives today of Fighting of the Faith and I could not find, not that it has never occurred. I just I don’t think I have ever covered somebody actually twisting Psalm 23. You all familiar with Psalm 23?

Psalm 23 v 1-6 (ESV – English Standard Version)

1The Lord is my shepherd; I shall not want.
He makes me lie down in green pastures.
He leads me beside still waters.
He restores my soul.
He leads me in paths of righteousness

for his name’s sake.

Even though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death,
I will fear no evil,
for you are with me;
your rod and your staff,
they comfort me.

You prepare a table before me
in the presence of my enemies;
you anoint my head with oil;
my cup overflows.
Surely goodness and mercy shall follow me
all the days of my life,
and I shall dwell in the house of the Lord
forever.

We have all heard this Psalm before. But I bet you have never anybody twisting it well the way you are about to hear Brian Houston of Hillsong down there in Australia twisting it. Here is Brian Houston explaining to us how lack in any area of life can diminish or limit our potential. Uh hmm here we go…..

Brian Houston, “I believe want makes potential smaller. Want lack it makes God’s purposes in your life smaller and David he makes a commitment there. The commitment is, ‘I shall not want….’

Chris Rosebrough, “No in Psalm 23 – David is not making a commitment saying, ‘I shall not want…”

Brian Houston, “God is my shepherd with the LORD leading me. I shall not want.”

Chris Rosebrough, “Yeah see that means God is going to make you healthy, wealthy and wise right? No…..

Psalm 23 v 1-6 (ESV – English Standard Version)

1The Lord is my shepherd; I shall not want.
He makes me lie down in green pastures.

I don’t know if you all have ever seen shepherds shepherding sheep. But the one thing I have noticed about sheep is that they don’t usually wear diamond rings or drive Mercedes Benz and things like that. So when David saw you know writes the Psalm….

Psalm 23 v 1-6 (ESV – English Standard Version)

1The Lord is my shepherd; I shall not want.

He is not talking about making sure, ‘Yeah I am making a commitment here. I am not going to be in lack. I am going to have all kinds of bling and things. That is not what he is saying…..”

Brian Houston, “He says….

Psalm 23 v 5

You prepare a table before me
in the presence of my enemies.
You anoint my head with oil;
my cup runs over.

Two contrasting concepts, one is want or lack. The other is overflow.

Psalm 23 v 5

5My cup runs over.

And what is David’s commitment his commitment…..

Chris Rosebrough, “No David is not making a commitment in Psalm 23….”

Brian Houston, “And what is David’s commitment? His commitment is….

Psalm 23 v 1 & 5 (NKJV – New International Version)

1 I shall not want.

5 My cup runs over.

Chris Rosebrough, “Yes this is how a money grubbing televangelist would well predictably twist this passage. To somehow make this is about David making a commitment to not have lack in his life and you need to make that commitment as well. We will talk about this in just a second. But I want him to spin this out just a little bit more….”

Brian Houston, “I shall not lack. My cup overflows. My cup overflows. I shall not want. My cup overflows, which do you think is the will of God for people’s lives? Lack or overflow…..”

Chris Rosebrough, “Which is the will of God for people’s lives? Lack or overflow? Uh hmm Luke 16 you know isn’t it weird that he just throws out this question without actually you know grounding this properly in a right understanding of biblical texts. Because Psalm 23 is not David saying, ‘I am making a commitment to not have lack and I am going to have overflow.’ What it is talking about there, God is our shepherd. The LORD is our shepherd. He is going to care for us and give us everything that we need and it also says that,

Psalm 23 v 5 (NKJV – New King James Version)

5 ‘Yea though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death

I will fear no evil

Okay that is see Psalm 23 is not a promise of prosperity. It is not a promise of you overcoming lack. That is not what this text is about. Luke 16 v 19, I wonder how somebody like Brian Houston out there in Hillsong. Again he is a money grubbing televangelist type down there in Australia, what he would do with Luke 16 starting at v19. Now pay close attention. See who has, who is suffering from lack and who is experiencing abundance, his cup is overflowing if you would…..

Luke 16 v 19 (ESV – English Standard Version)

19 “There was a rich man who was clothed in purple and fine linen and who feasted sumptuously every day.

Didn’t have any lack did he?

             Luke 16 v 20-30 (ESV – English Standard Version)

20 And at his gate was laid a poor man named Lazarus, covered with sores, 21 who desired to be fed with what fell from the rich man’s table. Moreover, even the dogs came and licked his sores.

Well alright so we have got a story of abundance and we have got a story of lack here. You know Lazarus is lacking. He is lacking food, he is lacking health, he is lacking all kinds of things. Okay and then in v22 it says he died and….

Luke 16 v 22-31 (ESV – English Standard Version)

22 The poor man died and was carried by the angels to Abraham’s side. The rich man also died and was buried, 23 and in Hades, being in torment, he lifted up his eyes and saw Abraham far off and Lazarus at his side.

Uh oh wait a second here. That poor man if it is really God’s will for Him to have abundance in this life. As if somehow that is what God, it is all about you being prosperous and not having lack you know.

Psalm 23 v 1 (ESV – English Standard Version)

The LORD is my shepherd; I shall not want.

I am making a commitment to not have any want. You know Lazarus here he had nothing but want while he was on earth. But you know what he had that the rich man didn’t have? Faith he trusted in Yahweh for the forgiveness of his sins and for his salvation. Because he trusted Yahweh, he was wealthy even though by earthly appearances he was a complete and abject failure who suffered from lack. Right so here we go. So here we go…..

Luke 16 v 22-31 (ESV – English Standard Version)

22 The poor man died and was carried by the angels to Abraham’s side.

And the rich man he is in torment and he sees Lazarus with Abraham.

Luke 16 v 22-24 (ESV – English Standard Version)

22 The rich man also died and was buried, 23 and in Hades, being in torment, he lifted up his eyes and saw Abraham far off and Lazarus at his side.24 And he called out, ‘Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus to dip the end of his finger in water and cool my tongue, for I am in anguish in this flame.’

It gives you a picture of what hell is like.

Luke 16 v 25 (ESV – English Standard Version)

25 But Abraham said, ‘Child, remember that you in your lifetime received your good things,….

Your cup ranneth over right?

Luke 16 v 25-31 (ESV – English Standard Version)

25And Lazarus in like manner bad things; but now he is comforted here, and you are in anguish. 26 And besides all this, between us and you a great chasm has been fixed, in order that those who would pass from here to you may not be able, and none may cross from there to us.’27 And he said, ‘Then I beg you, father, to send him to my father’s house— 28 for I have five brothers—so that he may warn them, lest they also come into this place of torment.’ 29 But Abraham said, ‘They have Moses and the Prophets; let them hear them.’ 30 And he said, ‘No, father Abraham, but if someone goes to them from the dead, they will repent.’ 31 He said to him, ‘If they do not hear Moses and the Prophets, neither will they be convinced if someone should rise from the dead.’”

So don’t think for a second that the scriptures teach, ‘Oh God it is His will all the time for you to have nothing but prosperity and no lack in your life.’ You might be suffering immensely here in this life time. But don’t think for a second God has abandoned you, He hasn’t. The LORD is your shepherd. You shall not want.

He will care for you. He has promised to care for you to meet your needs and in the next life the abundance, the heavenly banquet feast is all yours. Repent and trust in Him for the forgiveness of your sins and don’t twist the scriptures to make them say these types of things that they do not say. Let’s listen a little bit more to Brian Houston….

Brian Houston, “What which do you have expectation for in your life? The lack or overflow. You see lack has such a hold of people’s lives and don’t have a one concept…..”

Chris Rosebrough, “I thought sin had a hold of people’s lives not lack….”

Brian Houston, “Don’t have a one dimensional concept of lack. Lack could be a lack of resources or a lack of finances. But it might be a lack of wisdom. It could be a lack of judgement. It could be a lack of confidence. It could be a lack of self-esteem….”

Chris Rosebrough, “It could be lack of understanding right biblical hermeneutics….”

Brian Houston, “It could be a lack of self-esteem….”

Chris Rosebrough, “Do you lack self-esteem, oh man you don’t want to have that. It is God’s will for you to have abundant self-esteem. It is nonsense….”

Brian Houston, “For some people lack is a lack of ideas, a lack of creativity. Lack it could be a perceived lack of talent….”

Chris Rosebrough, “A lack of ideas and creativity. Oh no what is happening to the world?”

Brian Houston, “Lack it could be a perceived lack of talent. Lack comes in many ways. But what it does is it diminishes, it decreases and I don’t believe for one second…..”

Chris Rosebrough, “Yeah notice it is lack doing this not sin. This is a false gospel through and through….”

Brian Houston, “I don’t believe for one second it is the will of God for your life, for you to live your life in lack. I pray we have the same spirit that David has that recognizes God’s leadership, God’s shepherding in our lives and out from that we have that firm commitment, ‘I shall not want. I shall overflow. I shall not want. I shall overflow.’”

Chris Rosebrough, “Oh man so there you go. You got the idea. I mean talk about he is heading off on the wrong foot. Psalm 23 is not a great prosperity gospel passage. If the only way you can come to that conclusion is by twisting it, only focusing on certain portions of it and then engaging in that kind of hermeneutical nonsense. Moving along….”

Rick Warren’s Common Ground With The Iniquity of The Pharisees

Below is a transcript taken from Chris Rosebrough’s radio show podcast Fighting For The Faith Radio podcast which was originally broadcast on Tuesday August 27th 2013, which you can subscribe to on iTunes. I highly recommend you do this if you want to develop discernment. 

You can also watch the video of Rick Warren’s sermon – Employing Your Experiences – part 1 > http://www.oneplace.com/ministries/daily-hope/listen/employing-your-experiences-part-1-356986.html

Here is the video link for this transcript >  http://youtu.be/QMy5MsMlL78

[Segment: 00:56:45 – 01:33:21]

Chris Rosebrough, “Okay welcome back to Fighting for the Faith. This is hour number two and we are not doing a sermon review – a normal one. We have a purpose driven update instead. I want with what you just heard fresh in your mind to take a listen to a typical Rick Warren sermon and what he does with the scripture.

When you compare the two you will go, ‘Uh huh I get it.’ Alright now since we are doing a purpose driven update. It requires me to do this.

Purpose – John Tartaglia

Purpose.
It keeps you going strong
Like a car with a full
Tank of gas.

Everyone else has a purpose,

So what’s mine?

Oh look.

Here’s a penny.
It’s from the year I was born.

It’s a sign!

Ha! Ba ba ba ba doo doo doo doo doo.

I don’t know how I know,

But I’m gonna find my purpose.
I don’t know where I’m gonna look,
But I’m gonna find my purpose.

Gotta find out.

Don’t wanna wait.
Got to make sure that my life will be great.

Gotta find my purpose.
Before it’s too late.

Chris Rosebrough, “Yeah there we go. I have got to find my purpose before it is too late. Okay so Rick Warren has a new, it is not exactly new – but new this year radio programme and the name of the programme is Daily Hope With Rick Warren, it should be renamed Daily Bible Twisting with Rick Warren. That is what it should be named and what we are going to be listening to is a segment from a his presentation called shaped to make a difference Employing Your Experience.

So you know in the purpose driven theology, employing your experience is much important. The problem is that this entire teaching is based on nothing but twisting God’s Word and irrationally interpreting it, employing the third iniquity if you would of the Pharisees and how they mishandle God’s Word.

Remember they pay no attention to context. ‘You know so it says in scripture that The Torah is not in heaven, therefore we have the sole authority to interpret the scriptures right. It says incline not to the, incline to the majority, that means majority rules when it comes to us deciding what the scriptures means right and you go and look and you go look those those passages up in context and they are not saying any of the things the Pharisees say they were saying.

Well it is weird. Rick Warren employs the exact same irrational twisting of God’s Word to make it say things it doesn’t say. So here is Rick Warren explaining to us the importance of employing our experiences complete with biblical passages supposedly supporting this particular teaching of Rick Warren. Here we go….

Rick Warren, “You know I like chocolate chip cookies. In fact I like them a lot. I like them so much, I know how to make them. In fact I don’t even need a recipe. I have made them. I know to make chocolate chips and the amazing thing is I get in a little hurry sometimes and I want to eat the individual ingredients and they taste like pearls spit. Somehow though when you mix five bad things with one good thing and you stir them up together.

It is so good to eat half the dough before you make the cookie. How is that? Five bad things and one good equal a really good mixture and that is what God wants to do with your life. He wants to take bad, bad, bad, good and turn you into Mrs. Fields.”

Chris Rosebrough, “Okay so apparently God wants to take all these bad experiences, add one good ingredient and turn you into a chocolate chip cookie. That is kind of the metaphor. Remember the name of this particular sermon is at least on the radio programme Shaped to Make a Difference – Employing Your Experiences…..”

Rick Warren, “And he is a pro at it and today we are going to look at how he does it. God does not want you to waste your experiences. So how do I keep from wasting the experiences that I have had in my life up to this point…..”

Chris Rosebrough, “Now what does it mean to waste your experiences? Where in scripture is this important Christian doctrine about not wasting your experiences? I don’t even know what, how do you waste an experience? How do you capitalize on an experience so that you don’t waste it? I am kind of at a loss here.”

Rick Warren, “Three things. Number one, first you must embrace your experiences.”

Chris Rosebrough, “Okay so number one if you don’t want to waste your experiences you have got to embrace it first.”

Rick Warren, “You must embrace them….”

Chris Rosebrough, “I don’t know what that means?”

Rick Warren, “You must embrace the experiences in your life, the good ones – the bad ones. The shameful ones, the right ones, the wrong ones, the happy and the sad ones – all of them. You have got to stop running from your past, if God is going to use it for good in your life.”

Chris Rosebrough, “So God is going to use my past experiences for good, if I stop running from them. I don’t know what this means?”

Rick Warren, “Galatians 3 v 4 says this….”

Chris Rosebrough, “Now listen to what he does with this biblical text.

Galatians 3 v 4 I think is what he said. Let me back this up, just a smidge. Open your Bible. Let’s take a look at this together. Listen to what he says.”

Rick Warren, “Galatians 3 v 4 says this….

Galatians 3 v 4 (Easy to Read Version – ERV)

You have experienced many things. Were all those experiences wasted? I hope not

And as your pastor I say….”

Chris Rosebrough, “Okay woah, woah slow down there text.

Okay so Galatians 3 v 4……

Galatians 3 v 4 (Easy to Read Version – ERV)

4 You have experienced many things….”

What translation is he reading from? Okay let me read it to you from the ESV, which is a perfectly great translation and here is what it says.

Galatians 3 v 1-9 (ESV – English Standard Version)

1 O foolish Galatians! Who has bewitched you? It was before your eyes that Jesus Christ was publicly portrayed as crucified. Let me ask you only this: Did you receive the Spirit by works of the law or by hearing with faith? Are you so foolish? Having begun by the Spirit, are you now being perfected by the flesh?  Did you suffer so many things in vain—if indeed it was in vain? Does he who supplies the Spirit to you and works miracles among you do so by works of the law, or by hearing with faith—just as Abraham “believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness”?

Know then that it is those of faith who are the sons of Abraham. And the Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel beforehand to Abraham, saying, “In you shall all the nations be blessed.” So then, those who are of faith are blessed along with Abraham, the man of faith.

Now if you are not familiar with the epistle to the Galatians. This is a harshly, and I mean strongly harshly worded letter to the churches in Galatia because they were believing a false gospel. They were believing that they were saved in part by their keeping of The Torah. You know the Judaizers had come in after Paul left and told them, ‘Listen you are not saved. You are not really a Christian, unless you get circumcised.

Unless you follow the Jewish festivals and feasts and here Paul goes right back to salvation by grace alone through faith alone by Christ’s work alone and Galatians 3 is not at all about employing your experiences or not wasting your experiences. This is about whether or not they have received the Spirit of God, the Holy Spirit by works of the law or whether they have received the Spirit by believing with faith the message that was preached to them.

So when we get to Galatians 3 v 4…..

Galatians 3 v 4 (Easy to Read Version – ERV)

Did you suffer so many things in vain—if indeed it was in vain?

That is from the ESV and I think it is the far superior of a translation to what is going on there in the Greek text. I don’t know what translation he is reading from. But let me read it from a different translation. Just to kind of make the point. The NIV says.

Galatians 3 v 4 (NIV – New International Version)

Have you suffered so much for nothing—if it really was for nothing?

Okay that is the NIV then – the 1984 edition. The old NASB from 1977 says this….

Galatians 3 v 4 (NASB – New American Standard Version)

Did you suffer so many things in vain—if indeed it was in vain?

You notice what is going on here? Let’s take a look at what the KJV says….

Galatians 3 v 4 (KJV – King James Version)

Have ye suffered so many things in vain? if it be yet in vain.

Yeah weird so Galatians 3 has nothing to do with employing your experiences and embracing them. This is so Galatians has nothing to do with embracing your experiences at all. So what is Rick Warren doing? Well this is the third iniquity of the Pharisees. Irrationally mishandling the Word of God to make it say things that it doesn’t say at all. Let me back this up now and we will listen to it in context and listen to what Rick Warren does with this Galatians 3 passage.”

Rick Warren, “You must embrace the experiences in your life, the good ones – the bad ones. The shameful ones, the right ones, the wrong ones, the happy and sad ones – all of them. You have got to stop running from your past, if God is going to use it for good in your life.

Galatians 3 v 4 (ERV – Easy to Read Version)

You have experienced many things. Were all those experiences wasted? I hope they were not wasted!

And as your pastor I say to you I hope not too. Don’t run away from your past. The problem is because of pain many people deny their past….”

Chris Rosebrough, “You see what he did with Galatians 3 v 4? This is not an isolated incident with Rick Warren. This is exactly the stable of food that he lays out before people, calling this biblical preaching and teaching. He is not a safe teacher. In fact he is a liar. That is not what this text is teaching at all.

Galatians 3 has nothing to do with embracing your experiences and he goes and finds some weird off bizarre translation in order to find the word experience to plug it into his message and his doctrine and his theology.

In other words Rick Warren is teaching as doctrines the commands of men. Okay what is the command of the man Rick Warren? Rick Warren you have got to embrace your experiences. How does he come up with this man made doctrine? Well he twists the Word of God to make it say something it doesn’t say at all. That is how he came up with this. But here is a command from God. Embrace your experiences.

Where do we get that from? Well from some bizarre translation of Galatians 3 v 4, about did you experience these things for nothing, well I hope not. You know completely ripped from context, not paying attention to anything that it actually says. This is how Rick Warren operates and he will do it again and then when he is done doing that, then he is going to do it again. Listen in…..”

Rick Warren, “The problem is because of pain many people deny their past, ignore their past, discount their past, regret their past, resent the past, shoot they revise their past and rewrite their past and they make up little stories that aren’t really the way it was. Because they are happier with their story, than the pain of the past. God says if you are in denial, you can’t use it for good and I can’t….”

Chris Rosebrough, “Did you hear who he said says that? Listen again okay. Let me back this up. Listen to he says if you are in denial he can’t use your past. Listen to this….”

Rick Warren, “The problem is because of pain many people deny their past, ignore their past, discount their past, regret their past, resent the past, shoot they revise their past and rewrite their past and they make up little stories that aren’t really the way it was. Because they are happier with their story, than the pain of the past. God says if you are in denial, you can’t use it for good and I can’t use it for good in your life….”

Chris Rosebrough, “Where does God say if you are in denial about your past and don’t embrace your past experiences. God can’t use it for good. There isn’t a passage in scripture, where God says any of that? This is not what God’s Word says. Rick Warren is making stuff up and putting it in the mouth of God and doing so by twisting God’s Word. He is teaching as doctrines the commandments, [The Takkanot] of men….”

Rick Warren, “Would you write this on your outline? God can use every experience in my life for good. Every experience – the relational, the educational, the spiritual, the vocational, the painful, all of them – the ones you like and the ones didn’t like. He can use them all. But you have got to stop running from them. You have got to embrace your experiences…..”

Chris Rosebrough, “So first step. You have got to embrace your experiences. Nowhere in scripture are you commanded to embrace your experiences, especially Galatians 3 v 4…..”

Rick Warren, “And maybe your parents weren’t that great or maybe you weren’t that hot in school or maybe you weren’t the football captain or the prom queen. Well so what? They are your experiences. Own them and God will use them for good in your life. Now in order to use them, you have got to remember them.

Chris Rosebrough, “Okay so now we have got to remember our experiences. So command number one, embrace your experiences. Command number two remember your experiences and which passage from The Bible teaches this?”

Rick Warren, “Stop pushing them out of your mind. You have got to remember them and Jesus tells us this and in fact in The Old Testament tells it too in

Deuteronomy 11 v 2…..”

Chris Rosebrough, “Okay let’s take a look at Deuteronomy 11 v 2, before he ever gets there. Deuteronomy 11 v 2 and we will look at this in context is this passage saying make sure to remember your experiences. Okay let’s in fact, let’s go to the tail end of Deuteronomy 10, add a little context. Remember our three rules for sound biblical exegesis are context, context and context. So let’s go to Deuteronomy 10 v 12 and then we will keep reading into Deuteronomy 11 and then we will see what is going on in this passage. Okay….

Deuteronomy 10 v 12-22 (ESV – English Standard Version)

12 “And now, Israel, what does the Lord your God require of you, but to fear the Lord your God, to walk in all his ways, to love him, to serve the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul,13 and to keep the commandments and statutes of the Lord, which I am commanding you today for your good? 14 Behold, to the Lord your God belong heaven and the heaven of heavens, the earth with all that is in it. 15 Yet the Lord set his heart in love on your fathers and chose their offspring after them, you above all peoples, as you are this day. 16 Circumcise therefore the foreskin of your heart, and be no longer stubborn.

17 For the Lord your God is God of gods and Lord of lords, the great, the mighty, and the awesome God, who is not partial and takes no bribe. 18 He executes justice for the fatherless and the widow, and loves the sojourner, giving him food and clothing. 19 Love the sojourner, therefore, for you were sojourners in the land of Egypt. 20 You shall fear the Lord your God. You shall serve him and hold fast to him, and by his name you shall swear. 21 He is your praise. He is your God, who has done for you these great and terrifying things that your eyes have seen. 22 Your fathers went down to Egypt seventy persons, and now the Lord your God has made you as numerous as the stars of heaven.

Now pause there for a second, we are in the book of Deuteronomy. What is the context historically of what is going on? The children of Israel are just about ready to enter into the promised land, the forty years that they were punished for their unbelief. Remember the story the twelve spies who went to spy on Canaan and the then who gave a bad report and the children of Israel didn’t believe.

Well God punished them for 40 years, one year for each day that the spies were in Canaan right and all of the every adult above the age of 20. They died in the wilderness, during that 40 years and they were not going in. They did not go into the promised land. So now the children of Israel are literally on the border. Getting ready to cross the Jordan and Deuteronomy is a retelling, a second telling of the law and a remembering of all that God had done for them.

So Deuteronomy 11 v 1 then reads….

Deuteronomy 11 v 1-7 (ESV – English Standard Version)

1 “You shall therefore love the Lord your God and keep his charge, his statutes, his rules, and his commandments always. And consider today (since I am not speaking to your children who have not known or seen it), consider the discipline of the Lord your God, his greatness, his mighty hand and his outstretched arm, his signs and his deeds that he did in Egypt to Pharaoh the king of Egypt and to all his land, and what he did to the army of Egypt, to their horses and to their chariots, how he made the water of the Red Sea flow over them as they pursued after you, and how the Lord has destroyed them to this day,

and what he did to you in the wilderness, until you came to this place,and what he did to Dathan and Abiram the sons of Eliab, son of Reuben, how the earth opened its mouth and swallowed them up, with their households, their tents, and every living thing that followed them, in the midst of all Israel. For your eyes have seen all the great work of the Lord that he did.

Now notice this is a telling of Israel to recall all the wondrous things that He had done and this is not a command to remember your experiences. This is a command for them to recount salvation history. The things that were then recorded in the written Word of God. This is not a command saying, ‘Oh and here is the principle. Remember your experiences.’

No it is to recall the wonders of what God did in setting Israel free out of captivity and slavery and since we have been grafted into Israel, their history is our history and that is all type and shadow pointing to the reality and the reality is this – each and every one of us was born dead in trespasses in sins and enslavery to sin, death and the devil and Christ has sprung us free by His cross and He is bringing us into the promised kingdom of God. Okay that is what is going on here.

But there is no general command here. ‘Oh to remember your experiences.’ And to turn that into that is to twist God’s Word. So let me back this up and let’s see what Rick Warren does with Deuteronomy 11 v 2.”

Rick Warren, “And maybe your parents weren’t that great or maybe you weren’t that hot in school or maybe you weren’t the football captain or the prom queen. Well so what? They are your experiences. Own them and God will use them for good in your life. Now in order to use them, you have got to remember them.

Stop pushing them out of your mind. You have got to remember them and Jesus tells us this and in fact in The Old Testament tells it too in Deuteronomy 11 v 2. It says…

Deuteronomy 11 v 2 (GNT – Good News Translation)

Remember today what you have learned about the Lord through your experiences with him.

Chris Rosebrough, “What translation says that? Deuteronomy 11 v 2 says…..

Deuteronomy 11 v 2 (ESV – English Standard Version)

And consider today (since I am not speaking to your children who have not known or seen it), consider the discipline of the Lord your God, his greatness, his mighty hand and his outstretched arm,

That is actually a faithful rendering of what the Hebrew says there. Again let me read from the NIV Deuteronomy 11 v 2 says…..

Deuteronomy 11 v 2 (NIV – New International Version)

Remember today that your children were not the ones who saw and experienced the discipline of the Lord your God: his majesty, his mighty hand, his outstretched arm;

So what Rick Warren is saying here, this is not what this text says and it is not teaching what Rick Warren says it is teaching. Rick Warren is engaging in the third iniquity of the Pharisees. Let me back this up so that you can hear it again. Again this is not some isolated incident. This is Sunday after Sunday after Sunday, what Rick Warren does to the scriptures…..”

Rick Warren, “And maybe your parents weren’t that great or maybe you weren’t that hot in school or maybe you weren’t the football captain or the prom queen. Well so what? They are your experiences. Own them and God will use them for good in your life. Now in order to use them, you have got to remember them.

Stop pushing them out of your mind. You have got to remember them and Jesus tells us this and in fact in The Old Testament tells it too in Deuteronomy 11 v 2. It says…

Deuteronomy 11 v 2 (GNT – Good News Translation)

Remember today what you have learned about the Lord through your experiences with him.

Now it says remember what you have learned. It is saying the important thing is to remember the lessons. Remember the lessons. Now how do you do that? Well the best way to remember the lessons of your life, the experiences is to keep a journal….”

Chris Rosebrough, “Deuteronomy 11 is not telling us to keep a journal. What is he doing to God’s Word? What is he teaching these people?”

Rick Warren, “Now I am not talking about a diary, a diary is a list of what you did. Today I went to the store and brought milk, whoopi dido. But you don’t necessarily write in it every day. It is just every time you have important lesson. You write that one down, because you don’t want to forget it and go, ‘Oh boy that was painful. I had to learn that one the hard way. I don’t want to forget that and you write down the lesson.’ He says….

              Deuteronomy 11 v 2

Remember what you have learned about Me

And you want to keep a journal. This is one of my journals. I have been keeping a journal, off and on now for well since I was in college….”

Chris Rosebrough, “And now notice because number one you must embrace your experiences and number two you must remember your experiences. The implication is if you are not keeping a journal of your experiences, because according to Rick Warren Deuteronomy 11 v 2 says you have got to remember these things and you are not journaling. You are probably sinning and not doing what God has commanded you to do. Yeah that is exactly the implication of what is going on here….”

Rick Warren, “And I don’t write in it every day or even every week. It is just when I get a lesson, I don’t want to forget that one and I hear something. I learn something, I write it down and then I go back and reread it. Now why do you want to keep a journal on your experiences and lessons you learned from them in life?

Because hindsight is always twenty twenty, you understand your life looking back – not looking forward. Isn’t that true? It makes a whole lot more sense, looking backwards. In fact Jesus said it. Notice this next verse.

John 13 v 7 (NIV – New International Version)

7 Jesus replied,‘You do not realize now what I am doing. But later you will understand.”

Chris Rosebrough, “So when Jesus said, ‘You do not realize now what I am doing. But later you will understand. He was teaching us to remember our experiences. Is this what The Bible teaches? That verse that he is referencing is The Gospel of John 13 v 7. Let’s take a look at the context here and see if here in John 13. Jesus is telling us the importance of remembering our experiences.

John 13 v 1-10 (NIV – New International Version)

1 It was just before the Passover Festival. Jesus knew that the hour had come for him to leave this world and go to the Father. Having loved his own who were in the world, he loved them to the end.

The evening meal was in progress, and the devil had already prompted Judas, the son of Simon Iscariot, to betray Jesus. Jesus knew that the Father had put all things under his power, and that he had come from God and was returning to God; so he got up from the meal, took off his outer clothing, and wrapped a towel around his waist. After that, he poured water into a basin and began to wash his disciples’ feet, drying them with the towel that was wrapped around him.

He came to Simon Peter, who said to him, “Lord, are you going to wash my feet?”

Jesus replied, “You do not realize now what I am doing, but later you will understand.” “No,” said Peter, “you shall never wash my feet.” Jesus answered, “Unless I wash you, you have no part with me.” “Then, Lord,” Simon Peter replied, “not just my feet but my hands and my head as well!” 10 Jesus answered, “Those who have had a bath need only to wash their feet; their whole body is clean. And you are clean, though not every one of you.”

So there we go…..

John 13 v 7 (NIV – New International Version)

Jesus replied, “You do not realize now what I am doing, but later you will understand.”

Is not absolutely not a passage that is teaching us to remember our experiences. Rick Warren again is twisting God’s Word. This is three passages now that he has twisted. Galatians 3 v 4; Deuteronomy 11 v 2; and now John 13 v 7. Let me back this up so that you can hear what is going on here. Again this is the iniquity of the Pharisees the third one….”

Rick Warren, “Now why do you want to keep a journal on your experiences and lessons you learned from them in life?

Because hindsight is always twenty twenty, you understand your life looking back – not looking forward. Isn’t that true? It makes a whole lot more sense, looking backwards. In fact Jesus said it. Notice this next verse.

John 13 v 7 (NIV – New International Version)

7 Jesus replied,‘You do not realize now what I am doing. But later you will understand.”

You almost never understand what God is doing in your life in the present. It is only looking back you go, ‘Oh now I see it. Now I see what God was doing. He was doing this. I didn’t see it at the time….’

Chris Rosebrough, “This passage isn’t about us remembering our experiences….”

Rick Warren, “You almost never understand what God is doing in your life in the present. It is only looking back you go, ‘Oh now I see it. Now I see what God was doing. He was doing this. I didn’t see it at the time. But I see it now.

Joseph was a man who in The Bible everything in his life went wrong for 40 years. It was downhill. Nothing went right. Including being thrown in jail for rape that he did not even do. He had run from the woman and she falsely accused him.

Everything went wrong in this poor guy’s life for the first 40 years and yet later looking back when God had done a series of amazing things and raised him to second in command in Egypt and during the famine he saved Israel and Egypt from starving to death and when he was confronted with the brothers who traded him into slavery years ago and told their dad, ‘You know he just died sorry.’ He said this next verse.

Genesis 50 v 20

20 You intended to harm me, but God intended it for good….

Chris Rosebrough, “Yeah that is what the passage says, but that passage again just like all the others isn’t teaching us the importance of remembering our experiences….”

Rick Warren, “Now there are things in your life, where people intended to hurt you and they meant it. They meant to hurt you and I am sorry and they intended it for bad. But God is greater than your problem and your pain and His purpose is far bigger than either of those and He means it for good. So first you have to embrace your experiences….”

Chris Rosebrough, “So first you have got to embrace your experiences and none of the passages he quoted say that….”

Rick Warren, “Stop running from them. Number two, first you embrace the experiences. Second you extract the lessons….”

Chris Rosebrough, “Remember and extract the lessons and none of the passages that he cited say that.”

Rick Warren, “You pull the lessons out of the experience you have had, an unexamined experience is worthless. There are people who are 50 years old. They haven’t lived 50 years. They have lived 1 year 50 times and it is still making the same mistakes, because they never stop and extract the lessons from what happened in this last year and how can I do it differently based on what I did this last year….”

Chris Rosebrough, “So kind of if you don’t do this then you are going to be living groundhog day, over and over again.”

Rick Warren, “And they never pull it out. 2 Corinthians 13 v 5 says this. I love this in The Amplified Version.

2 Corinthians 13 v 5 (AB – Amplified Bible)

Examine and test and evaluate your own selves to see whether you are holding to your faith

In other words you have got to extract the lessons…..”

Chris Rosebrough, “Yeah Rick Warren here is pulling a fast one and what I mean by that is 2 Corinthians 13 v 5, it doesn’t matter what translation you read whether it is the ESV, the NIV, the NASB, the KJV, or whatever alphabet soup you maybe studying from. It doesn’t matter the text itself does not say anything about remembering your experiences and extracting the lessons from it. He is completely twisting this passage. Let me just read it simply.

2 Corinthians 13 v 5 (ESV – English Standard Version)

Examine yourselves, to see whether you are in the faith.

In the faith, it doesn’t say examine your life experiences and extract the lessons from them. It says….

2 Corinthians 13 v 5 (ESV – English Standard Version)

Examine yourselves, to see whether you are in the faith.

The fact that Rick Warren is quoting the Amplified here, how many different translations has he used so far? I think four different verses, four different translations and this is what the text says.

2 Corinthians 13 v 5 (ESV – English Standard Version)

Examine yourselves, to see whether you are in the faith. Test yourselves. Or do you not realize this about yourselves, that Jesus Christ is in you?—unless indeed you fail to meet the test!

This passage has nothing to do with life experiences and what you should or shouldn’t be doing with them. Let me back this up just a smidge and listen to what Rick Warren does to this text.

Rick Warren, “You pull the lessons out of the experience you have had, an unexamined experience is worthless. There are people who are 50 years old. They haven’t lived 50 years. They have lived 1 year 50 times and it is still making the same mistakes, because they never stop and extract the lessons from what happened in this last year and how can I do it differently based on what I did this last year and they never pull it out. 2 Corinthians 13 v 5 says this. I love this in The Amplified Version.

2 Corinthians 13 v 5 (AB – Amplified Bible)

Examine and test and evaluate your own selves to see whether you are holding to your faith

In other words you have got to extract the lessons. Do you not realise by an ever increasing experience that Jesus Christ is in you…..”

Chris Rosebrough, “What is he talking about?

2 Corinthians 13 v 5 (ESV – English Standard Version)

Examine yourselves, to see whether you are in the faith. Test yourselves. Or do you not realize this about yourselves, that Jesus Christ is in you?—unless indeed you fail to meet the test!

Rick Warren what was he doing looking for the word experience so he can plug it in here and not pay attention to anything at all, what God’s Word really says. He is basically manipulating God’s Word to make it appear that it is teaching these things and it is not. These are not doctrines of God. These are the doctrines of the man Rick Warren and his clever Bible twisting and in such a postmodern way….”

Rick Warren, “Haven’t you figured out by now, you are never alone. That God is with you all the time. That no matter, when you thought you were your most lonely – He was right there with you. Have you not figured out from your experiences yet….”

Chris Rosebrough, “This text doesn’t say any of that….”

Rick Warren, “That Jesus is with you and in you. If you have invited Him into your life. If you haven’t you are not keeping a record of where your life is headed.”

Chris Rosebrough, “2 Corinthians 13 v 5 has nothing to do with keeping a record of where you are headed in your life or anything of the sort. I think I have made the point. You get what I am getting at here right? This is exactly what Rick Warren does Sunday after Sunday.

This is exactly what he did when he wrote the so called Purpose Driven Life. He took God’s Word and twisted it into a pretzel. Third iniquity of the Pharisees style. He is teaching as doctrines the commands of the man Rick Warren, not what God’s Word really says and there are tens if not hundreds of thousands of people who tune into to hear Rick Warren preaching and teaching and when he is doing this are they rightly understanding what God has revealed in His Word? No, are they being taught the truth? No they are being taught lies. Are they being taught the doctrines of God?

No they are being taught the doctrines of men under the pretence that is the doctrines of God, based on completely ripping texts out of context and irrationally interpreting them to say things that they don’t say at all. This is exactly why Rick Warren is a dangerous man. Because Jesus Himself said that Satan is the one who is a liar and when he lies he speaks his native language.

When a pastor gets up and without any pangs of conscience, you know can just get up there and just start twisting God’s Word like this and not actually feel like he is doing anything wrong and can lie about God and His Word so fluently, what he is proving is that he is not really a son of God.

But that he is like his father the devil and he is a liar. This is why Rick Warren is so dangerous and the whole purpose driven movement that he is the kingpin of, he is the mafia don of – well they take after him. Which means they are not really teaching the truth. They are not really proclaiming Christ. They are not really teaching sound doctrine. They are leading people astray and sending them to hell and Christ speaks ever so vocally against this exact thing in Mark 7.

So what do you think? I would love to get your feedback. If you would like to email me regarding anything you have heard on this edition or any previous editions of Fighting for the Faith. You can do so my email address is talkback@fightingforthefaith.com or you can subscribe on Facebook – facebook.com/piratechristian or you can follow me on Twitter. My name there is @piratechristian.

Fighting for the Faith With Chris Rosebrough – Joyce Meyer Waxes Word of Faith – part 2

Below is a transcript taken from Chris Rosebrough’s radio show podcast Fighting For The Faith Radio podcast which was originally broadcast on Tuesday July 16th 2013, which you can subscribe to on iTunes. I highly recommend you do this if you want to develop discernment. 

You can also watch the video of Joyce Meyer’s sermon – Your Mouth and God’s Power > http://youtu.be/AdpJzngXKQg 

Here is the video link for this transcript > http://youtu.be/CSVbb3iqM6A

[First segment – 00:22:54 – 00:23:41]

Chris Rosebrough, “But what we are going to do right now. We are going to pause. We are going to take our first break in just a minute and when we come back we are going to do part 2 of what we started yesterday with Joyce Meyer and yesterday’s programme I named the segment Joyce Meyer Waxes Word of Faith, something like that. You have heard the phrase waxes eloquent that is you know that was the idea behind the…although the title itself is a little bit weird. You read it and go huh what? Yeah afterwards I thought maybe I should have named it something different but too late now. That is what it is called.

So we are going to be doing Joyce Meyer Waxes Word of Faith part 2 today. We are going to back the tape up just a little bit, continue where left off with her false teaching.

[Second segment – 00:32:39 – 01:05:00]

Alright we are back. Warning all false doctrine is dangerous. But some doctrines damn, that is what scripture teaches. You teach a different gospel and a different god you are outside of Christianity period.

Alright let’s move on. We have a Joyce Meyer update and I received an email today from a listener who suggested that I change up my music when I do anything really to the Word of Faith heresy and after listening to his suggestion, I am going to go with his suggestion. So even though we are doing a Joyce Meyer update I would like to introduce to our new kind of over the top if you would Word of Faith heresy music update. This is Jonny Mercer – Accentuate The Positive. Here we go….

Jonny Mercer – Accentuate The Positive

You have got to accentuate the positive
Eliminate the negative
And latch on to the affirmative
Don’t mess with Mister In-Between

You have got to spread joy up to the maximum
Bring gloom down to the minimum
Have faith or pandemonium’s
Liable to walk upon the scene

To illustrate my last remark
Jonah in the whale, Noah in the ark
What did they do just when everything looked so dark?

(Man, they said “We had better accentuate the positive”)
(“Eliminate the negative”)
(“And latch on to the affirmative”)
Don’t mess with Mister In-Between

Yeah that is Jonny Mercer’s Accentuate the Positive. I think like I said we are going to have to be using that for future instalments whenever we do a Word of Faith heresy update.

Now yesterday we were we started part 1 of Joyce Meyer Waxes Word of Faith is what I called it. Part 1 of that was yesterday. We are going to do Part 2 today. But in order to do it right.

What I need to do is actually back the audio up just a smidge so that you can hear the context of what it is that Joyce is saying here and so what I am going to do is I am going to actually back up the audio just a smidge and the teaching that she is doing by the way the name of it from her television programme is Your Mouth and God’s Power and so I am going to back up just a smidge so that we can get the context of what it is that she was saying.

So you will hear roughly about a minute of what we were listening to yesterday. Joyce Meyer as she is you know trying to tell us from The Gospel of Luke 1 that the reason why the angel had to shut up the mouth of Zachariah was so that his negative words wouldn’t mess up the mission that he was sent on. Yeah listen in again with this horrific twisting of God’s Word from The Gospel of Luke 1 and we will just keep going through as we do today’s instalment of Joyce Meyer Waxes Word of Faith. Here we go…..

Joyce Meyer, “Zachariah said to the angel v18….

Luke 1 v 18 (AB – Amplified Bible)

18 And Zachariah said to the angel, By what shall I know and be sure of this?

Prove it to me God.

Luke 1 v 18 (AB – Amplified Bible)

18 For I am an old man, and my wife is well advanced in years.

So here he has been praying for a child. But he already thinks he is too old to have one. He thinks his wife is too old. So look what happens?

Luke 1 v 19-20 (AB – Amplified Bible)

19 And the angel replied to him, I am Gabriel. I stand in the [very] presence of God, and I have been sent to talk to you and to bring you this good news. 20 Now behold, you will be and will continue to be silent and not able to speak till the day when these things take place, because you have not believed what I told you; but my words are of a kind which will be fulfilled in the appointed and proper time.

So God supernaturally shut Zachariah’s mouth and I wouldn’t mind to have a little of that sometime myself….”

Chris Rosebrough, “You could just do it on your own. I would really appreciate it because you are twisting God’s Word here….”

Joyce Meyer, “So God supernaturally shut Zachariah’s mouth and I wouldn’t mind to have a little of that sometime myself amen and He had to do it in order for His plan to come to pass in his life.

The birth of this child was so important as a forerunner to the Messiah and he could see, the angel could see from Zachariah’s initial response that his first words that there was not much chance of that man verbally cooperating with the plan of God and so God had to shut his mouth….”

Chris Rosebrough, “Now this is called eisegesis. Okay now remember we are dealing with a historical narrative. Now the narrative says, ‘Because you did not believe therefore you will not be able to speak.’ But what Joyce Meyer is doing here is she is engaging in eisegesis.

Now if you don’t know what that is two Greek words that you should understand ex ἐκ, ἐξ (Strong’s Concordance 1537) means out or out of eis εἰς (Strong’s Concordance 1519) means into. So when we talk about exegesis we are talking about reading out what is in scripture, which is the right way to do it. Eisegesis is reading into the biblical text what isn’t there. So what she just did is engaged in eisegesis. Reading in the Word of Faith heresy into this text from Luke 1, it is not there.

Nowhere does it say, ‘The angel knew well I have got to shut this guy up or he is going to you know, because his negative words are going to end up destroying the mission of the forerunner of the Messiah. No the text itself is clear. Because you didn’t believe, you could almost say it was a punishment of what was you know for not believing the words of the angel Gabriel. That is what the text says. If you were to engage in exegesis you could not come up with this quote interpretation that she has come up with because her interpretation is based upon her inserting into this text stuff that isn’t there.”

Joyce Meyer, “And I just wonder how many of us mess up the plan of God for our life. Come on now. I just wonder how many wonderful things God has had planned and how many things He has planned now that if you were not at this conference you would surely mess up by saying things that you shouldn’t say.

Chris Rosebrough, “So you can mess up the plan of God for your life with your words and that see this is why the angel had to shut up Zachariah according to Joyce Meyer, but not according to the biblical text.”

Joyce Meyer, “But thank God because you are here this weekend God is not going to have to supernaturally shut your mouth. You are going to learn. Is anybody with me tonight? How many of you see that? Well I guess I just better shut your mouth right now or we are never going to get this done.

Our words are so important. Everything in The Bible is important but there are some things that stand out to me. The power of our thoughts are extremely important because our thoughts become words and of all the teaching that we put on television the three areas that people respond to the most are the mouth, the mind, and emotions. I think we all know that those are areas that tend give us a lot of trouble. The mind is the battlefield. Your thoughts are where Satan attacks you.

The Bible says that out of your heart, what is in your heart, what is in your mind, comes out of your mouth. So naturally Satan wants to put wrong thoughts in your mind hoping that you will speak wrong things out of your mouth. I was thinking even just about exhortation. I am going to talk some of this weekend about what a powerful ministry it is just to encourage people and how desperately that is so much more needed today and you know when people see me out and about I frequently get compliments.

But I was thinking literally almost every person who comes up to me to give me a compliment starts this way, ‘I know you probably hear this all the time, but….,’ and I was thinking today you know what I believe that even that is a clear example that here is a person God puts it in their heart to encourage and the enemy right away puts a thought in their mind, ‘Ah she hears that stuff all the time. She won’t hear what you have to say.’ We have to be so careful that we don’t let the devil talk us out of doing what God wants us to do in our lives. Pay attention to what you are thinking and pay attention to what you are saying.

Luke 10 v 19 (AB – Amplified Bible)

19 Behold! I have given you authority and power….”

Chris Rosebrough, “Okay now this is a tricky passage to get what is going on here. In fact I had to consult some very good commentaries in order to properly understand this particular text. But notice where she is starting in the story, this should clue you in that she is not engaging in biblical exegesis. What she is engaging in is what is called proof texting. Okay and so the idea is this. Proof texting is when you begin with your own idea and then you go hunting in scripture to find stuff that supports your idea.

Okay now proof texting is not, it is not you are not guilty of it if you sit there and say, ‘Okay the doctrine of the Trinity which scripture teaches that there is only one God and that God exists in three persons and we are going to show you this by basically going to the texts that talk about hey look the Father is called God. Here is the biblical text that says the Father is called God. Here is another text that says the Son Jesus Christ is called God and here is another text in The Book of Acts where the Holy Spirit is called God and yet scripture is clear from these passages and Isaiah and from Deuteronomy 6 v 4 that there is only one God.

And so the idea here is that when we take up the full sum of all of these biblical texts where it says, makes it clear there is only one God and yet there are three persons Father, Son, and Holy Spirit who are called God and they communicate to each other. For instance Jesus prays to the Father and the Father His voice is heard when Jesus is baptized and then the Holy Spirit descends like a dove and then Jesus says when he is going to return to the Father. So He is not the Father. He is going to return to the Father and when He returns to the Father, they are going to send the Holy Spirit.

So when we go through the biblical passages and you take up the full you know scope and warp and woof if you would kind of a biblical phrase there of what the scripture teaches about the one God then what happens is that you see that there is one God and yet there are three persons who make up the one God and there are not three gods but one.

This is what The Bible teaches and so when you pull up all of these passages to show what The Bible teaches regarding the one God you are not actually engaging in proof texting. What you are doing is you are trying to sum up the basic you know overall look at what The Bible teaches, what God has revealed about Himself using all of these passages.

So a lot of times when you are teaching sound doctrine somebody will turn around and accuse you of proof texting, ‘Oh you are just proof texting.’ No proof texting, the first move of proof texting begins with your own doctrine, with your own thoughts, with your speculations, with your ideas and then you go hunting for passages that support that.

Sound biblical doctrine can be done by looking at different passages and even out of context if you would. Especially since the ideas when you put them back into context, it is not going to change their meaning. But sound biblical doctrine is when you gather up collectively what The Bible says regarding a particular topic and then you exegete out what it is actually saying. You are not beginning with an idea. What you are instead doing is you are beginning with scripture and letting scripture form your definitions.

Now because the church has created definitions over its history you know hammered out a very good definition of the doctrine of the Trinity. You can begin with the churches definitions and the churches confessions because those were done and forged and created via exegesis, not eisegesis and not proof texting. Does that make sense?

So the idea here is that for instance you know I would point to something like The Nicene Creed. The reason why The Nicene Creed is true is because it says the same thing as scripture. Okay it is a summary of scripture. So the reason it is true is because it says the same thing. The Augsburg Confession which is a primary confession of the Lutheran faith. It is true because it says the same thing as scripture.

So these little confessional statements that you know that we have these confessions, they are true because they say the same thing as scripture. Now if they don’t say the same thing as scripture in those areas where they don’t say the same thing, they are not true. Okay does that make sense or they are not in accord with scripture. But if you are confession doesn’t say the same thing as scripture, your confession has to be reworked. You know so that is something to keep in mind.

But the reason why The Nicene Creed is true, the reason why The Augsburg confession is true, why the apology of the Augsburg Confession is true, why Smalcald articles are true, why the Athanasian Creed is true is because those creeds, those confessions say the same thing as scripture and the idea then is you can go into the biblical text and you can formulate those exact confessional statements. Those exact sentences by exegeting properly exegeting the biblical passages that talk to that topic.

Okay but what Joyce Meyer is engaging in here is proof texting and here she is you know, she is not going to tell the story that is in Luke 10. Instead she is going to begin at a weird place v19.

Now if you are familiar with The Gospel of Luke there is a little vineyard stories you know throughout The Gospel of Luke and let me read the story to you from Luke 10 so that you understand what is going on in this passage and then you will get what this passage is saying when you look at it in context. The context will actually flesh this out. So Luke 10 v 1. Here is what it says…..

Luke 10 v 1-7 (ESV – English Standard Version)

1 After this the Lord appointed seventy-two others and sent them on ahead of him, two by two, into every town and place where he himself was about to go. And he said to them, “The harvest is plentiful, but the labourers are few. Therefore pray earnestly to the Lord of the harvest to send out labourers into his harvest. Go your way; behold, I am sending you out as lambs in the midst of wolves.

Carry no moneybag, no knapsack, no sandals, and greet no one on the road. Whatever house you enter, first say, ‘Peace be to this house!’ And if a son of peace is there, your peace will rest upon him. But if not, it will return to you. And remain in the same house, eating and drinking what they provide, for the labourer deserves his wages.

Now it is important to note that later after Jesus ascension, not ascension, Jesus resurrection. He says to His disciples, ‘This time take a money bag with you. Take sandals with you, a spare cloak and a sword even!’ You know but in this particular training mission if you would that is kind of what the sending out of the seventy two is about. He is training them on how to do evangelism. For this one….

Luke 10 v 4-12 (ESV – English Standard Version)

Carry no moneybag, no knapsack, no sandals [no sword, you don’t need any of that stuff], and greet no one on the road. Whatever house you enter, first say, ‘Peace be to this house!’ And if a son of peace is there, your peace will rest upon him. But if not, it will return to you. And remain in the same house, eating and drinking what they provide, for the labourer deserves his wages. Do not go from house to house.

Whenever you enter a town and they receive you, eat what is set before you. Heal the sick in it and say to them, ‘The kingdom of God has come near to you.’ 10 But whenever you enter a town and they do not receive you, go into its streets and say, 11 ‘Even the dust of your town that clings to our feet we wipe off against you. Nevertheless know this, that the kingdom of God has come near.’ 12 I tell you, it will be more bearable on that day for Sodom than for that town.

13 “Woe to you, Chorazin! Woe to you, Bethsaida! For if the mighty works done in you had been done in Tyre and Sidon, they would have repented long ago, sitting in sackcloth and ashes. 14 But it will be more bearable in the judgment for Tyre and Sidon than for you. 15 And you, Capernaum, will you be exalted to heaven? You shall be brought down to Hades.16 “The one who hears you hears me, and the one who rejects you rejects me, and the one who rejects me rejects him who sent me.”

So here is the idea here, kind of an idea regarding sending in those days. Okay so this is an apostolic mission if you would. Jesus is sending ἀποστέλλω apostelló He is apostelló-ing. That is the Greek word here. Seventy two guys and they are going with His authority, with His message. They are heralds of the things He wants to say and because they are saying what they are, they are being told what to say the one who hears them, hears Jesus. Because they are giving the message that Jesus wants to have proclaimed and preached. Right same thing should be happening in your church by the way.

No pastor has the authority to bring his own message in a Christian church that belongs to Jesus Christ. So that way if he is saying the truth of what scripture says. The one who hears your pastor hears Jesus. That is what is kind of the idea there. But Luke 10 v 17 then goes on to say….

Luke 10 v 17 (NKJV – New King James Version)

17 Then the seventy returned with joy, saying, “Lord, even the demons are subject to us in Your name.” 18 And He said to them, “I saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven. 19 Behold, I give you the authority to trample on serpents and scorpions, and over all the power of the enemy, and nothing shall by any means hurt you. 20 Nevertheless do not rejoice in this, that the spirits are subject to you, but ratherrejoice because your names are written in heaven.”

So what happens is the seventy two return and the thing they are really jazzed about, not the message they were preaching, not that people were brought to repentance. That is the thing they should have been jazzed about. They were, ‘Wow Jesus even the demons are obeying us.’ This is amazing stuff and then Jesus gently corrects them. Okay Jesus corrects them and refocuses them and He says to them….

Luke 10 v 18 (ESV – English Standard Version)

18 And He said to them, “I saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven. 19 Behold, I give you the authority to trample on serpents and scorpions, and over all the power of the enemy, and nothing shall by any means hurt you. 20 Nevertheless do not rejoice in this [this is not what you should be rejoicing about], that the spirits are subject to you, but ratherrejoice because your names are written in heaven.”

Okay now in v19 where it says…..

Luke 10 v 19 (ESV – English Standard Version)

19I have given you authority to tread on serpents and scorpions, and over all the power of the enemy and nothing shall hurt you.

Is that a blanket promise then that nothing can hurt a Christian? Answer no here is what Lenski the biblical commentator says regarding this he says, ‘But this does not mean that Jesus lifts his messengers above all the destructive forces of nature. Nor does it mean that they may in a foolhardy way disregard all natural dangers, which would be nothing but playing into Satan’s hands by tempting God. Nor does this symbolism lift the disciples above all persecution that is stimulated by Satan and above a possible martyr’s death, all the passages that speak of persecution declare the contrary.

But the words of Jesus mean that Satan cannot inflict personal persecution and death at will. Only when Jesus Himself wants Him to suffer and to die in the interests of His kingdom do such things come upon us. So then we accept them as being sent by Jesus and even then we trample on all of Satan’s power as did all of the martyrs who died and triumphed and by so dying defeated Satan.

So here is the idea you misunderstand this text and you twist it when you say that, ‘Oh well Jesus says all authority has been given and nothing shall hurt you.’ That is not a blanket promise that nothing ever shall hurt Christians. Because what happened to the apostle Peter He was crucified upside down. What happened to the apostle Paul? He was beheaded. He was stoned. He suffered a martyr’s death. He was nearly martyred on several different occasions.

So this is not some blanket promise that nothing shall hurt you and anyone who uses it that way is not paying attention to what is going on in this text and this was said by Jesus to correct the seventy two for their wrong focus and their wrong rejoicing and to get them to rejoice and to be happy and focused on the right thing. So let’s see what Joyce Meyer now does with Luke 10 v 19. Again it is suspicious that she starts at v19. Let’s see what she does with it….”

Joyce Meyer, “Not I will, I might, could be, hope so, maybe. I have given you every one of you that is a child of God, every person here watching by TV, listening in some way, if you are a child of God. You have authority and power. It has been given to you by God.”

Luke 10 v 19 (AB – Amplified Bible)

19 Behold! I have given you authority and power to trample upon serpents and scorpions, and [physical and mental strength and ability] over all the power that the enemy [possesses]; and nothing shall in any way harm you.

Now I am sure some people think, ‘Well if I have got so much power, then why is my life such a mess? Because you can kill we power of God in your life. You can press it down, hinder it, keep it from flowing by speaking things that are not in agreement with God’s plan and will for your life.”

Chris Rosebrough, “Wow so you have the power to literally cut off the power of God with your words. Now there is not a single verse in scripture that says that. So how is she doing this? Well by her proof texting. Pulling verses out of context and making them say things that they don’t. By the way Proverbs 18 v 21 does not say that you can stop the power of God in your life with your words. It doesn’t say that. This is absolutely blasphemous. Who is the sovereign here? Apparently you are or your words are. Your words are more sovereign than God Himself. Weird huh?”

Joyce Meyer, “God has equipped us. Now listen to me God has equipped us on the inside in our spirit with every single thing that we need to live a victorious life. Everything when you are born again the seed of God comes to live in you. That means that you are pregnant with everything that God is.”

Chris Rosebrough, “Really what passage of scripture says that I am pregnant with everything that God is? As a Christian I have been given the guarantee, the inheritance, the down, the deposit guaranteeing the inheritance. That is the Holy Spirit. So I have the Holy Spirit dwelling within me. But where does it say that I am pregnant with everything that God is? There isn’t a single passage of scripture that says this.”

Joyce Meyer, “In your womb….”

Chris Rosebrough, “I don’t have a womb….”

Joyce Meyer, “When a woman becomes pregnant her husband seed is planted in her womb and the child grows and grows and grows and develops then it gives birth. Well that is what happens when we receive Christ. We receive a seed of peace, a seed of righteousness, a seed of joy. Everything comes to us as a seed.”

Chris Rosebrough, “In our wombs uh huh again what verse says this?”

Joyce Meyer, “As we water it with the Word of God and we let the Holy Spirit work in our lives to pull the weeds out of our life and as we grow and we grow then one thing after another we give birth to these beautiful things that God has put in our life and they become our experience rather than something we just read about and never experience.”

Chris Rosebrough, “Again I just have to ask the question what passage of scripture says this? I am not familiar with any passage of scripture that says anything even remotely close to this. She well Luke 10 v 19 doesn’t say this that is for sure. Proverbs 18 v 21 sure doesn’t say this. Yet she just said it so matter of factly. This is nothing more than an assertion. This is a theological assertion without any biblical text to back any of it up.”

Joyce Meyer, “How many of you understand what I am saying? So you don’t even have to pray for peace. You have got peace. You need to pray that God will teach how to walk in the peace that you have. You don’t have to be, ‘Oh God I need joy.’ You say, ‘No God I believe your joy is in me. Teach me how to not to give up my joy. Teach me how to not let the devil steal my joy.’

We don’t need to keep praying for something we have already got. We need to start making use out of it. You don’t need to pray God give me power. You say, ‘God I believe that I have power on the inside of me. I am agreeing with you. I believe that I have power on the inside of me. Now teach me how to walk in that power.’

You will be amazed at how much different you feel. If you will just start to think and speak about what you already have. I mean you will just be like I have power. Wow I am anointed. I have abilities. Instead of going around, ‘I don’t have any power. I don’t have any peace. I don’t have any joy. Nobody loves me. Oh come on we are going to have too much fun this weekend….”

Chris Rosebrough, “By the way this is exactly what the apostle Paul prophesied would happen to the Christian church. If you are not familiar with the prophecy that I am referring you can find it in 2 Timothy 4. The apostle Paul he writes to young pastor Timothy. He says….

2 Timothy 4 v 1-4 (ESV – English Standard Version)

1 I charge you in the presence of God and of Christ Jesus, who is to judge the living and the dead, and by his appearing and his kingdom: preach the word; be ready in season and out of season; reprove, rebuke, and exhort, with complete patience and teaching. For the time is coming when people will not endure sound teaching, but having itching ears they will accumulate for themselves teachers to suit their own passions, and will turn away from listening to the truth and wander off into myths.

Yeah what she is preaching here, by the way she shouldn’t be preaching. She is not biblically qualified to be a pastor is she? Nope she shouldn’t be preaching. But what she is preaching is a mythology. One that scratches itching ears if you would. Tells people things they want to hear.

‘Oh you are powerful. God has got a big thing for you and your words they have the ability to create the future. But make sure you only say the positive stuff. Because you can cut off you know God’s power with your negative words and things like that. You are in control. You are in the driver’s seat and all you have got to do is say positive things and positive things will happen to you because you can create your future.’ The Bible nowhere teaches this. This is as much mythology as the stories of Zeus and Athena and Hercules and Euripides and people like that and all the Euripides and ippities and uppities of Greek mythology. Yeah if you have read The Odyssey and the Iliad and the Odyssey you know.

This is as much mythology as that. Because this isn’t taught in scripture, this teaching has its origin not in the clear passages of scripture, but in the minds and wicked hearts of televangelists who have made a lot of money gathering for themselves a following of people telling them exactly what they want to hear, rather than preaching what God’s Word really says. They are heretics. They are false teachers. They are people leading people to hell. Because they are pointing them to themselves rather than to the truth, the truth that they are sinners in need of a Saviour – that Christ died for their sins and that God is sovereign.

God is Lord and He calls all men everywhere to repent and to be forgiven of their idolatry and their wickedness and their false doctrine and their false mythologies that are spoken in all ways by hijacking the name of Christ and using His word to try to create the impression that this is what God’s Word teaches, when it doesn’t teach anything of the sort. Something to think about…..

Alright we are up on our second break and if you would like to email me regarding anything you have heard on this edition or any previous editions of Fighting for the Faith you can do so my email address is talkback@fightingforthefaith.com or you can subscribe to me on Facebook. It is facebook.com/piratechristian or you can follow me on Twitter. My name there is @piratechristian.

Fighting for the Faith With Chris Rosebrough – Joyce Meyer Waxes Word of Faith – part 1

Below is a transcript taken from Chris Rosebrough’s radio show podcast Fighting For The Faith Radio podcast which was originally broadcast on Monday July 15th 2013, which you can subscribe to on iTunes. I highly recommend you do this if you want to develop discernment. 

You can also watch the video of Joyce Meyer’s sermon – Your Mouth and God’s Power > http://youtu.be/AdpJzngXKQg 

Here is the video link for this transcript > http://youtu.be/dHfNjLgIxwM

First Segment [00:06:06 - 00:15:48]

Chris Rosebrough, “Let’s talk about what we are going to do on today’s episode of Fighting for the Faith. We are going to take the pirate ship out of dry dock, head to sea we have hoisted the main sail already and in fact we are land is quickly vanishing behind us as we are acquiring our next heretical targets if you would and what I thought I would do today on Fighting for the Faith is two things.

You know rather than you know kind of pepper you with different topics here in the first hour. You know take the ship out to sea and see you know, put her through her paces and see if we still have what it takes to do all this stuff. But there is two things I want to do today.

One is I want to circle back. Since a few weeks ago we talked about the kind of the oppressive slavery that occurs to people, the bondage that they are put into in the Word of Faith heresy and one of the most famous Word of Faith heretics out there is none other than Joyce Meyer. Now Joyce Meyer just before I went on vocation she spoke at Steven Furtick’s Code Orange Underground.

Now if you remember it was last year in January of last year. Steven Furtick had what I call at that time The Heresy Olympics and that is the best way I can put it and you know we even had awards that we handed out, medals that we handed out at the end of The Heresy Olympics and it was called The Code Orange Revival and Steven Furtick being the kind of guy that he is hating haters you know, because a hater is anybody who would dare to challenge what he is saying you know with God’s Word in context and sound biblical doctrine and things like that. Has decided to take the whole Code Orange Revival underground this year and I am all for that. I think that is great.

If he wants to keep it underground, he can put it under as many rocks as he wants and I am all fine with that, because at that point he is not really infecting the church at large with the you know the teachings of these heretics. He is only infecting his own church and they are already infected and probably beyond help anyway. But so he has take the entire endeavour to Code Orange and put it underground and it can stay there.

But you know the instalment of Code Orange Underground that happened just before I went on vocation he you know there were in fact on Steven Furtick’s Instagram account there is a photograph that somebody took with you know Joyce Meyer in the foreground and Steven Furtick’s sitting on a couch on the background and Steven Furtick has this huge cheesy, ‘Oh I am loving this,’ kind of grin going on thing and so anyway that is kind of all off topic.

But what we are going to do today is we are going to circle back and we are going to listen to a segment of Joyce Meyer’s teaching regarding words being containers. Words you know creating our future and stuff like that and once you buy into the Word of Faith heresy that words create your future, then what happens is that you no longer can speak the truth about what is going on in your life.

So if you buy into the Word of Faith heresy and you are suffering from you know maybe heart disease or high blood pressure and you go to the doctor and the doctor says, ‘Listen you have got to take these meds,’ and by the way this is not an off topic illustration.

I recently received an email from somebody whose father brought into the Word of Faith heresy and he had high blood pressure and heart problems and the email that I received from him was a really sad story of how this listener believes that the Word of Faith heresy killed his father. But see here is the idea is that you know it is a false belief that turns your faith into your faith. Basically it is faith in your faith. You know it is a strange thing and that is that you have got to muster up enough belief. That is the work that you have got to do.

Belief in your belief and then when God believes that you can believe enough, then what happens is that then you have earned the right for His blessings and things like that and of course you know since negative words create a negative future for you. You can’t say things like, ‘Oh you know listen I went to the doctor and the doctor said, ‘You know hey you have got high blood pressure. You are going to need to really get this addressed. There is procedures that we can do and maybe you are having heart problems and maybe one of your arteries is clogged.

That is okay. We can go in and we can with all of the technology we have and the procedures we have it will be an outpatient procedure. We will clear out your arteries and all that. But you can’t say, ‘Oh okay that is a great idea. I need to have my heart you know take a look at it. You know things like that. Because why because well you can’t say the negative thing. Because if you say the negative thing, it will create the negative outcome in your life and so the way to create a positive future is to only speak positively.

So what we are going to do is we are going to circle back and we are going to listen to Joyce Meyer talking about words that create your future. You know your words being containers and listen to her responding to a listener email. Now I have done. You know I have listened to this. In fact I have reviewed this response of hers on a past episode of Fighting for the Faith.

But I want to again circle back and with this idea that the Word of Faith heresy puts people in bondage so they cannot speak the truth about what is going on in their life. It creates this you know bondage where you are in bondage to the happy. You are in bondage to the positive. You can’t say the negative. You can’t say what a real thing really is and ultimately how that impacts their gospel presentation.

You know the quintessential example would be somebody like Joel Osteen. You never really Joel Osteen talking about sin now do you? Now well because that is negative and you know so it affects how they present the gospel. The reason being is that the good news is that Christ died for our sins, an example of somebody being justified is given by Jesus Himself and it is you know the story the parable The Pharisee and the Tax Collector.

The Pharisee sits there and says all these positive things about himself. (Luke 18 v 11) ‘Oh LORD I thank you that I am so great that I tithe and that I am not a sinner and that you know I am not like the evil person, like that tax collector over there.’

(Luke 18 v 13) Right but the tax collector can’t even look to heaven and his prayer is, ‘LORD have mercy on me a sinner.’ And God blesses and justifies. It is more than just a blessing, He justifies, He saves, He declares to be righteous well the tax collector and the tax collector his justification came through a negative confession. A confessing that he was a sinner. But if you believe that negative words create negative outcomes you can’t say that you are a sinner because what that will do is you are going to affirm that up and you are going to be a sinner for the rest of your life. That is going to destroy you.

No what does scripture say? If we say we have no sin the truth is not in us.

1 John 1 v 8-9 (ESV – English Standard Version)

If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

So the scripture tells us to speak truthfully about ourselves and in speaking truthfully about ourselves as being sinners. That is the penitent contrition and humbling and broken spirit and heart that God is looking for whereby then He says, ‘I forgive you.’ You see penitence and the forgiveness of sins go hand in hand and penitence of course is the ultimate speaking negatively of yourself. It is saying, ‘God I cannot by my own reason or strength come to you. God I am a sinner. I am sinful by nature. I sin against you in thought, word, and deed by what I do, by what I don’t do.

You know and so that negative confession. ‘If we say we have no sins, the truth is not in us. But if we confess our sins, God is faithful and just to forgive us.’

1 John 1 v 8-9 (ESV – English Standard Version)

If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

That negative confession about ourselves, saying that we have nothing. That we are spiritually impoverished, bankrupt if you would. It is that sign that the Holy Spirit has actually worked its work in your life and brought you to penitent to repentance and remorse for your sin and that is well that is goes hand in hand with the forgiveness of sins. Because as Christ says, ‘The one who exalts himself will be humbled, but the one who humbles himself will be exalted.’

Luke 14 v 11 (ESV – English Standard Version)

11 For everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, and he who humbles himself will be exalted.”

So the Word of Faith heresy has you constantly exalting yourself, saying how, ‘I am great. I am the head. I am not the tail. I am the cat’s meow. I am beautiful. I am skinny. I am rich. I am prosperous. I am healthy, wealthy and wise,’ and always exalting yourself as if somehow that proves to God that you somehow have believed Him. That is not what God’s Word teaches.

So like I said we will circle back listen to a little Joyce Meyer on this with that framework in mind that the Word of Faith heresy puts you in bondage to the positive and causes you to not be able to speak the truth about your situation and speak the truth about what you really are and that is a sinner and so ultimately it affects the gospel.

Second Segment [00:17:34 – 00:53:31]

Chris Rosebrough, “But with that we are going to dive into the programme proper and this is our Joyce Meyer update music. Here we go…..

[Plays intro music for Joyce Meyer]

             Wolfmother – Joker and Thief

I said the joker is a wanted man,
He makes his way all across the land,
See him sifting through the sand,

So I’ll tell you all the story,
About the joker and the thief of the night,

Always laughing in the midst of power,
Always living in the final hour,
There is always sweet in the sour,

We are not going home,

Can you see the joker flying over,
As she’s standing in the field of clover,
Watching out everyday?
I wonder what would happen if he took her away?

Alright Wolfmother Joker and The Thief. I think that is appropriate update music for Joyce Meyer. So the name of the teaching from Joyce Meyer’s television programme that we are going to be looking at today is entitled, hang on a second where did it go? There it is right there. Containers Called Words and you are thinking what an earth does that mean? Well the best way I can say it is I can’t exactly describe it to you. It is best if I just let Joyce Meyer explain it to you. So without any further or due. Here is Joyce Meyer talking about the Word of Faith heresy as if it is biblical teaching and it is not but listen in. Here we go….

Joyce Meyer, “Welcome to Enjoying Everyday Life. Romans 4 v 17 says that God speaks of the nonexistent things as if they existed.”

Chris Rosebrough, “Now I am going to stop right there. Yeah that is right God speaks of the things that are not as if they are. It doesn’t say we do. It says God does. Now see this is a category error and what I mean by that is that is this that God is God, we are not. We are not little gods.

Although Joyce Meyer has taught that we are that is not what the scriptures teach. In fact that is kind of the first lie of the devil going all the way back to the garden of Eden. Remember the temptation where you know when you know Satan says you know via the serpent to Eve….

Genesis 3 v 1 (ESV – English Standard Version)

1 Did God actually say, ‘You shall not eat of any tree in the garden’?”

And she says, ‘You know. Oh no but God said, ‘Don’t touch this one or eat of it. The day you surely die,’

Genesis 3 v 2 (ESV – English Standard Version)

And the woman said to the serpent, “We may eat of the fruit of the trees in the garden, but God said, ‘You shall not eat of the fruit of the tree that is in the midst of the garden, neither shall you touch it, lest you die.’”

And then Satan says, ‘No you will not surely die. But God knows that on the day that you will be like God.’

Genesis 3 v 4-5 (ESV – English Standard Version)

But the serpent said to the woman, “You will not surely die. For God knows that when you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.”

Okay we are not God. Okay God is an omnipotent, almighty powerful being. He is in a category completely different than we are. We are not deities. We are humans. We are creatures and scripture makes it clear that in our creation we are a little lower than the angels. That is you know so let’s kind of get the importance going on here. So when it says that God speaks of the things that are not as though they are….

Romans 4 v 17 (ESV – English Standard Version)

17 As it is written, “I have made you the father of many nations”—in the presence of the God in whom he believed, who gives life to the dead and calls into existence the things that do not exist

It does not then in that passage say, ‘Therefore you must speak of the things that are not as if they are….’ You know that is not how that works. God is capable through His almighty omnipotent power to speak the universe into existence and we find in Genesis that He did that in six days and days by the way you know what it means? Days yeah days and but we just because Romans says that God talks about the things, speaks about the things that are not as if they are, that does not mean that we are to do that. There is no prescription in scripture for us to do the same thing.

Joyce Meyer, “How about you? How do you talk about your future? This whole week we have been have been discovering that our words can and do have an impact on our lives and the lives of other people. Later in the programme we will have some teaching from Winstin Sail, North Carolina about little phrases that will help us build a better future.”

Chris Rosebrough, “Little phrases that will help us build a better future, wow….”

Joyce Meyer, “But right now Ginger has some viewer questions regarding our words. Ginger I bet you have got some good questions don’t you?”

Ginger Stache, “I have some great questions today. Thanks for letting us ask them. This comes from Brandy in Denver and Brandy says I have a question about the scripture, Proverbs 18 v 21, “Life and death are in the power of the tongue.”

Chris Rosebrough, “Which by the way is out of context…..”

Ginger Stache, “How can I share with God my hurts and securities, frustrations and pain in a healthy way, I want to stay honest with Him and receive the help that I need. But I don’t want to speak negative things at the same time.”

Chris Rosebrough, “Okay now did you catch that? What is this about? Okay Joyce Meyer teaches the Word of Faith heresy and she has now put people into the bondage of the positive. Okay so and she has done this via you know taking that passage from Proverbs out of context “Life and death are in the power of the tongue.”

As if that passage is basically saying you create your future via your words, either positive or negative. That is not what that passage says by the way. In fact what we might want to do here is take a look at it in context. Proverbs 18 v 21 by the way is the passage and let’s take a look at it real quick, so you understand what is going on.

Over and again I have to do this because people you know they will start listening to the programme and then whether or not we have addressed this in previous episodes of Fighting for the Faith. So sometimes I have to be redundant. Okay let me start at, we are going to apply our three rules of biblical interpretation or hermeneutics. They are context, context, context. So Proverbs 18 v 19.

Proverbs 18 v 19-23

19 A brother offended is more unyielding than a strong city, and quarrelling is like the bars of a castle. 20 From the fruit of a man’s mouth his stomach is satisfied; he is satisfied by the yield of his lips. 21 Death and life are in the power of the tongue, and those who love it will eat its fruits. 22 He who finds a wife finds a good thing and obtains favour from the Lord.

So the question is what is meant by death and life are in the power of the tongue? Is it saying therefore that means, that if you speak positive words positive things will happen to you? Answer no, the text actually doesn’t say that.

What it is talking about there is productive speech, speech that is satisfying, speech that you know that it is constructive and beneficial speech and then the consequences of speech. So what people say can lead to life or death and so this Proverbs affirms this point and then explains it, that those who love it will eat its root. The reference it must be the tongue. What the tongue says so that they who enjoy talking must bear its fruits whether good or bad.

So let me give you an example. Okay so you can tear somebody down with your words, alright and if you tear somebody down with your words they might you know decide that what they are going to do is let you pay for that and kill you for saying something they don’t like. That could potentially happen. So there is consequences to your speech. So the idea here is that if you are going to speak, do so in a way that is truthful, that is accurate, that takes thoughts captive or builds people up properly.

For instance let me give you another example. You know death and life are in the power of the tongue. If you are speaking the truth about God and not taking His name in vain, then you are preaching the gospel and properly speaking the truth about God and you are building people up. If you are speaking heresy and speaking false words you are tearing people down and actually poisoning their souls and endangering them in the fires of hell.

But death and life are in the power of the tongue, it is this is by the way, you are not going to find then in The New Testament passages that flesh this out and say, ‘Therefore if you want a good future, you must speak positive words.’ That is nowhere found in scripture and so here is the idea.

In order for a doctrine to be established in as biblical doctrine. It must be done so with a clear, ‘Thus sayeth the LORD.’ Okay so if this passage death and life are in the power of the tongue really meant that if you want to be healthy and prosperous, then you speak positive affirmations over your life and positively confess there would be other clear passages that teach that exact same doctrine. But there are not.

So coming back then to Joyce Meyer and this email question from a listener who has heard Joyce Meyer’s teaching regarding Proverbs 18 v 21 and now she is asking the question, ‘Well how do I speak about my life without saying negative things, so that I can have positive outcomes in my life.’ So notice this person emailing in is already in bondage to Joyce Meyer’s Word of Faith heresy teaching. This is not what The Bible teaches and now she is trying to figure out, ‘Well how do I speak about my life in a way that I don’t destroy my future.’ Listen again…..”

Ginger Stache, “I have some great questions today. Thanks for letting us ask them. This comes from Brandy in Denver and Brandy says, ‘I have a question about the scripture, Proverbs 18 v 21, “Life and death are in the power of the tongue.” How can I share with God my hurts and securities, frustrations and pain in a healthy way, I want to stay honest with Him and receive the help that I need.’

Chris Rosebrough, “I want to stay honest with God….”

Ginger Stache, “But I don’t want to speak negative things at the same time.”

Chris Rosebrough, “Yeah because if you do that somehow now your words are like magic. They create your future. Well what does Joyce Meyer say?”

Joyce Meyer, “One of the things that I tell people is that you can talk about a negative situation in a positive way.”

Chris Rosebrough, “Oh so now it is the art of learning how to talk about a negative situation in a positive way, so that you don’t cause a negative future to occur in your life.”

Joyce Meyer, “God doesn’t expect us not to talk to Him about the problem or to tell Him honestly when we are hurting. The Bible says that He desires truth in the inward being. So He wants us to be truthful with ourself and truthful with Him and even truthful with other people.

If I am having a problem and you say to me, ‘You look a little like maybe something is bothering you Joyce, are you okay?’ I don’t need to lie to you. I can say, “Yeah I am going through something right now but you know I really believe that God is on top of it.’ If I am praying and I believe He is going to work it out.

I don’t have to get negative about it. So yes….

Chris Rosebrough, “Yeah and by the way the reason she is saying you don’t have to get negative about it, because if you get negative about it, you will create that negative outcome in your life.’

Joyce Meyer, ‘We can talk to God about whatever is bothering us. But at the same time we can say but I know that your Word is true and I believe that you are going to work in this situation. If there is something you need me to do please show me and work through me to enable me to do it and I trust you.”

Ginger Stache, “Right….”

Joyce Meyer, “I trust you and I believe that it will all work out good.”

Ginger Stache, “There is a really important key in there that you are saying is God does want us to be truthful.”

Joyce Meyer, “Yes….”

Ginger Stache, “We have to be real.”

Joyce Meyer, “Yes….”

Ginger Stache, “We have to be real and even with our friends and people we love. But we can’t be throwing out those negative feelings everywhere we go.”

Chris Rosebrough, “Yeah then the reason why you can’t be throwing out those negative feelings because those negative words will create a negative future.”

Joyce Meyer, “Yeah and I think sometimes that Christians maybe who believe in positive confession or making sure that they say the right thing. If you get too spiritually weird with that you know it can come across wrong to people especially people who don’t understand and so they begin to think….”

Chris Rosebrough, “Come across wrong? The Bible doesn’t actually teach the positive confession doctrine anywhere in clear unambiguous language. The only way you can get to it is by proof texting vague passages and pouring this meaning into those passages. But they don’t actually say it when you look at what they are saying in context.”

Joyce Meyer, “Well you are not real, you are not even dealing with real life. I mean you are not even telling the truth.” That is why I think it is important to be truthful. But to be positive and also we don’t have to talk about our problems and talk about them and talk about them.”

Ginger Stache, “Right….”

Joyce Meyer, “You know even with God we can tell Him you know I am really hurting or tomorrow I can say I am still really hurting. You know but I believe that you are taking care of this. We can always talk about it in a positive way.”

Chris Rosebrough, “Yeah so just don’t whatever you do, don’t talk about it in a negative way because you will create that negative outcome. Okay what I am going to do right now I am going to change gears.

I am going to go backwards into the archives of Joyce Meyer’s programme just a few days to find out what exactly is she talking about here. These this power of words to and how we can’t speak negative things and how we can, we need to learn how to be authentic about what is going on in our lives. But don’t do it in a way that is negative. But speak about it in a way that is positive. What is this theology that she is spewing here? Well this is part and parcel of the Word of Faith heresy and Joyce Meyer is one of the purveyors of the Word of Faith heresy.

So here is from a previous episode of her programme called Your Mouth and God’s Power. Here is Joyce Meyer. Listen in…..”

Joyce Meyer, “Tonight in particular I want to talk to you about words and how they affect the anointing on your life or how they affect the power and the presence of God on your life.”

Chris Rosebrough, “So words affect God’s anointing on your life and the presence and power of God in your life, words do.”

Joyce Meyer, “I went to church for a lot of years and I never heard anything about the power of God. I never really heard the word anointing and that is sad because the Holy Spirit brings the anointing of God into our lives and that anointing, that power, that presence of God on our lives….”

Chris Rosebrough, “Yeah okay this is great. I want you to pay attention to what she is doing here. This is an assertion. She is not actually exegeting this out of a biblical text. So I don’t know what she is talking about. You know that you know our words have the power regarding God’s anointing on our life. Now I know about Jesus Christ Christos, the Greek word Christos χριστὸς means the anointed one. The Hebrew for this מָשִׁיחַ‎; mashiahmoshiahmashiach, or moshiach the anointed one.

So I know about the anointed one Jesus Christ. But what is she talking about when she is talking about our anointing. She is not teaching this from a biblical text that is talking about our anointing. So I am not sure what she is talking about and this is some kind of an assertion she is making without a text that she is exegeting it from.

That is always one of the major tactics of a false teacher. Rather than exegeting a passage and showing you what a passage says in context and drawing doctrine out of clear passages. They begin with their assertions and then go fishing for proof texts that support their assertions. This is not how biblical theology or Christian theology is done.”

Joyce Meyer, “I never really heard the word anointing and that is sad because the Holy Spirit brings the anointing of God into our lives and that anointing, that power, that presence of God on our lives in our lives and on our lives is one of the most precious gifts that we have. The presence of God in your life, the power of God that is in you and on you for whatever you need to do is the most precious thing that you have in your life and you must protect it. The power of God….”

Chris Rosebrough, “Hmm…okay and where does it say in scripture that this anointing is precious and I must protect the anointing? I don’t know of those passages. I don’t know what passages you are referring to….”

Joyce Meyer, “The power of God in our lives needs to be reverenced, honoured, and protected and one of the ways that we can do great damage to that beautiful anointing is by having a mixture in our life.”

Chris Rosebrough, “Now notice what she is going to do here. She is going to mix a few things together so that you can’t see the hook.”

Joyce Meyer, “Praising God when we are in church and singing all these songs and quoting scriptures….”

Chris Rosebrough, “That is the positive stuff….”

Joyce Meyer, “Praising God when we are in church and singing all these songs and quoting scriptures and hearing the Word and then going out and gossiping about people and being judgemental and critical.”

Chris Rosebrough, “Yes gossiping is a sin by the way. It is akin to murder.”

Joyce Meyer, “Praising God when we are in church and singing all these songs and quoting scriptures and hearing the Word and then going out and gossiping about people and being judgemental and critical and negative and murmuring and complaining and speaking all kinds of doubt and unbelief.”

Chris Rosebrough, “Speaking all kinds of doubt and unbelief. Huh yeah I am not sure we are dealing with a clear passage here. In fact I am pretty sure we are not.”

Joyce Meyer, “Are we all together on the same page? [Crowd says, ‘Yeah….’]

Chris Rosebrough, “Nope….”

Joyce Meyer, “We need to get rid of the mixture. You say….”

Chris Rosebrough, “Ah you have to get rid of the mixture. You can mix the positive and the negative uh…..”

Joyce Meyer, “You say a few things good, then the power starts to increase in your life. Then you say a few things negative and it decreases and goes back to zero.”

Chris Rosebrough, “Okay I have got to back that up so you can hear it without me interrupting. Wow was that horrible. Yeah listen in…..”

Joyce Meyer, “We need to get rid of the mixture. You say a few things good, then the power starts to increase in your life. Then you say a few things negative and it decreases and goes back to zero.”

Chris Rosebrough, “Okay so there is the Word of Faith heresy. ‘You say a few things good the power increases, you say a few negative things and it goes back to zero.’ Everything hinges on whether or not you are speaking positively or negatively. Yet there isn’t any passage in scripture that clearly says, ‘If you speak positive words, God’s power will positively increase in your life, but if you speak negative words then it will go down to zero. There isn’t a passage in scripture that says this.”

Joyce Meyer, “We have to get consistent in saying what God says. It is not about just saying anything we want to say. But learning how to say what God says and no matter how impossible it seems to us. When we read one of God’s promises in the Word the only thing that He wants to hear from us is, ‘I agree with you God. If you say that you can do that, then I believe that you can do that. It may be impossible with man, but all things are possible with God.’

Chris Rosebrough, “Yeah let me point something out here. Yes this is kind of basic when you confess that God is almighty, all-powerful, you are saying that all things are possible with Him. That though there is no clear promise in scripture that says as soon as you are able to confess that God is almighty, well then He is going to work in a powerful way in your life. There is no passage that says that.”

Joyce Meyer, “We have to learn how to come into agreement with God. Some of you are sitting in church week after week and you are watching my programme and you have even come to this conference and you so desperately need God to work in your life and you want to, but I can tell you it was this way in my life and I am not trying to insult you.”

Chris Rosebrough, “She is not pointing to a biblical passage now she is pointing to her own personal experience.”

Joyce Meyer, “I am trying to help you. You just keep digging in deeper with your own mouth. It doesn’t do any good just to hear somebody say it, you have got to learn to say what God says. The whole reason to hear the Word of God is so you can learn to say what God says. The Word of God in your mouth spoken out loud in faith is your number one most powerful weapon against the enemy. If you want to defeat the devil, you have to learn how to speak the Word.”

Chris Rosebrough, “Now this is interesting because there is an element of truth to this that is mixed in with some error and what I mean by this is that when we talk about the armour of God, the Word of God is the sword of the Spirit. The Word of God so we are to say the same things that scripture says, but she is not here.

She has basically created a magic theology and she is actually one of the purveyors of this. I don’t think she created it herself, a magic theology that if you can stay and believe the promises of God that it becomes a powerful talisman. The Word of God is a talisman in this way. You say the same thing. It is the spell book. Once you can believe it within your heart enough then the spell itself will work. This is witchcraft. This is absolutely the same kind of witchcraft that you see in Wicca and other things.”

Joyce Meyer, “Not speak what you feel, not speak what you think, not speak what people tell you, but the Word of God. Anybody can have the promises of God fulfilled in their lives….”

Chris Rosebrough, “If…..”

Joyce Meyer, “If they will learn how to come into agreement with God.”

Chris Rosebrough, “There you go, so this is a works based religion. Okay plain and simple. Anybody can have the promises of God fulfilled in their life, if and then you have got to come, you have got to….you have got to….this is all law. This is not gospel and it is a complete twisting of God’s Word. Nowhere in scripture does it say this. God’s gifts are not contingent upon you. He is the giver. They do not have their origin in you and God is not sitting up in heaven waiting for you to do something.”

Joyce Meyer, “To do what God tells you to do and to say what God says amen….”

Chris Rosebrough, “No I cannot say amen to this. This is blasphemy.”

Joyce Meyer, “Proverbs 18 v 21 says, “The power of life and death are in the tongue.”

Chris Rosebrough, “Again I have pointed this out. When you look at this in context, you read a good commentary on it. It is very clear what is being talked about here is not that this is saying that if you speak positive things, positive things will happen to you. If you speak negative things then God’s power will whoosh, vanish. That is not what this text says.”

Joyce Meyer, “Now we are going to look at those scriptures a little more completely in other messages. Tonight I am going to kind of lay a foundation and talk to you about this the anointing on our lives and the importance of maintaining that anointing. I think today there is probably even a good number of people that don’t even really know what the anointing is, well Christ is called the anointed one.”

Chris Rosebrough, “Yes he is.”

Joyce Meyer, “That is what the word Christ means the anointed one. Jesus the anointed one and the anointing, the power of God, the Holy Spirit was sent to represent Jesus when Jesus went to heaven and sat at the Father’s right hand. He is the presence of God. When we…..”

Chris Rosebrough, “Again what passage are you exegeting from Joyce? I am not familiar with these passages that say this.”

Joyce Meyer, “When we feel the presence of God. When we are singing these beautiful worship songs, that is the Holy Spirit in our midst. When you feel or sense the power of God on you to do something that you need to do. That is the presence of God coming on your life….”

Chris Rosebrough, “How do you know you are not being deceived by the devil and that this is really just the devil masquerading as an angel of light, making you feel something.”

Joyce Meyer, “That is the presence of God coming on your life to help you and enable you to do what you need to do and the more you agree with God the more power is going to be released in your life.”

Chris Rosebrough, “Oh man what passage of scripture says the more you agree with God the more power will be released in your life? There isn’t one. This is by the way what it means to take God’s name in vain. This is blasphemy. The Bible nowhere says this.”

Joyce Meyer, “Let’s look at Luke 1 v 11….”

Chris Rosebrough, “Okay let’s take a look at Luke 1 v 11.”

Joyce Meyer, “Luke 1 beginning in v11….

Luke 1 v 11-13 (AB – Amplified Bible)

11 And there appeared to him an angel of the Lord, standing at the right side of the altar of incense. 12 And when Zachariah saw him, he was troubled, and fear took possession of him. 13 But the angel said to him, Do not be afraid, Zachariah, because your petition was heard, and your wife Elizabeth will bear you a son,

Now he has been praying for something that when God tells Him, He is about to get it, he won’t believe God. Have you ever prayed for something and then when you get it you say, ‘I just can’t believe that.’ Well why are we praying if we are not expecting and believing God to do something?

Luke 1 v 13-16 (AB – Amplified Bible)

13 Your petition was heard, and your wife Elizabeth will bear you a son, and you must call his name John [God is favourable].14 And you shall have joy and exultant delight, and many will rejoice over his birth, 15 For he will be great and distinguished in the sight of the Lord. And he must drink no wine nor strong drink, and he will be filled with and controlled by the Holy Spirit even in and from his mother’s womb. 16 And he will turn back and cause to return many of the sons of Israel to the Lord their God,

And I mean a roundabout now Elijah, I mean Zachariah should have been just hopping up and down inside like woah help praise the LORD, he is alert exceedingly abundantly above and beyond. I just asked for a child, but I am going to get a famous one.

             Luke 1 v 17 (AB – Amplified Bible)

17 And he will [himself] go before Him in the spirit and power of Elijah,

Him he was talking about the Saviour.

Luke 1 v 17 (AB – Amplified Bible)

17 To turn back the hearts of the fathers to the children, and the disobedient and incredulous and unpersuadable to the wisdom of the upright [which is the knowledge and holy love of the will of God]—in order to make ready for the Lord a people [perfectly] prepared [in spirit, adjusted and disposed and placed in the right moral state].

He is telling him and your son this child that you have been praying for is going to be the forerunner for the Saviour. He is going to go ahead of Him and prepare the way.”

Chris Rosebrough, “Now I am going to pause here for a second. If you have not heard my lecture series on how to not be snookered and bamboozled and hoodwinked by religious conmen, snake oil and salesmen and stuff like that. Go look that up on the Fighting for the Faith website. Just type in the word snookered you will find it and in there and four lectures I lay out the sound biblical exegetical you know principles, that the idea here and here is the idea.

She is preaching or she shouldn’t be preaching from a historical narrative. Okay and here is the analogy that I use alright if you were to just read the historical narrative accounts of the death of Jesus Christ, would you know the theological significance of that historical event? Answer no you need a theological explanation of a historical narrative to give us what is going on theologically here.

Okay now it is important to note this. That what where she is going to go with this Zachariah, doesn’t believe and he doubts the word that the angel spoke. Okay yet the angel was sent directly from the throne of God alright and as a result of it God or the angel punishes him by basically making it impossible for him to speak until John is born. Basically knots up his tongue and makes it so he can’t talk and that is a punishment for not believing.

Now that being the case she is going to use this here to try and basically say, ‘Well see this is about positive confession.’ No it is not. This not a text about positive confession, okay because here is the deal it says early on in The Gospel of Luke’s account here that Zachariah and his wife prayed. They didn’t declare, they petitioned God. Let me read the text again. I will start at Luke 1 v 8.

Luke 1 v 8 (ESV – English Standard Version)

Now while he was serving as priest before God when his division was on duty, according to the custom of the priesthood, he was chosen by lot to enter the temple of the Lord and burn incense.10 And the whole multitude of the people were praying outside at the hour of incense. 11 And there appeared to him an angel of the Lord standing on the right side of the altar of incense. 12 And Zechariah was troubled when he saw him, and fear fell upon him. 13 But the angel said to him, “Do not be afraid, Zechariah, for your prayer has been heard,

Your prayer, not your proclamation, not your positive confession, your prayer is a petition. It is a request. It is humbly asked for. So the idea here is that even though Elizabeth, his wife and him they were blameless before God and righteous before God and blameless before others. They had no child and despite the fact that they had prayed and requested of God that they have a child.

They have become old in age and here the angel is basically saying, ‘God has heard your request, your prayer, your petition and He is answering it in the affirmative.’ Okay so this isn’t a story about positive or negative confession. This is a story about God answering a prayer and Zachariah not believing the word of the Lord. Even though an angel came and delivered that word. Okay big difference as opposed to your words create a positive you know outcome either good or bad, that is not the case at all.

Joyce Meyer, “Zachariah said to the angel v18….

Luke 1 v 18 (AB – Amplified Bible)

18 And Zachariah said to the angel, By what shall I know and be sure of this?

Prove it to me God.

Luke 1 v 18 (AB – Amplified Bible)

18 For I am an old man, and my wife is well advanced in years.

So here he has been praying for a child. But he already thinks he is too old to have one. He thinks his wife is too old. So look what happens?

Luke 1 v 19-20 (AB – Amplified Bible)

19 And the angel replied to him, I am Gabriel. I stand in the [very] presence of God, and I have been sent to talk to you and to bring you this good news. 20 Now behold, you will be and will continue to be silent and not able to speak till the day when these things take place, because you have not believed what I told you; but my words are of a kind which will be fulfilled in the appointed and proper time.

So God supernaturally shut Zachariah’s mouth and I wouldn’t mind to have a little of that sometime myself amen and He had to do it in order for His plan to come to pass in his life.…”

Chris Rosebrough, “No it did not, the text did not say that the angel had to shut his mouth in order for the plan to come about. It does not say that at all in the text. Let me read it. Let me continue reading. Luke 1 v 18…..

Luke 1 v 18-20 (ESV – English Standard Version)

18 And Zechariah said to the angel, “How shall I know this? For I am an old man, and my wife is advanced in years.” 19 And the angel answered him, “I am Gabriel. I stand in the presence of God, and I was sent to speak to you and to bring you this good news. 20 And behold, you will be silent and unable to speak until the day that these things take place, because you did not believe my words, which will be fulfilled in their time.”

So what was the reason according to v20 that Zachariah his mouth was silenced? Because he didn’t believe the words of the angel, it doesn’t say, ‘In order that the My words have to be fulfilled. I have to shut your negative mouth up.’ That is not what the text says at all. She is inserting that into the text and it is not in there.

Joyce Meyer, “The birth of this child was so important as a forerunner to the Messiah and he could see, the angel could see from Zachariah’s initial response that his first words that there was not much chance of that man verbally cooperating with the plan of God….”

Chris Rosebrough, “He didn’t need to verbally cooperate with the plan of God.”

Joyce Meyer, “The birth of this child was so important as a forerunner to the Messiah and he could see, the angel could see from Zachariah’s initial response that his first words that there was not much chance of that man verbally cooperating with the plan of God and so God had to shut his mouth and I just wonder how many of us….”

Chris Rosebrough, “Wow this is blasphemous!”

Joyce Meyer, “And I just wonder how many of us mess up the plan of God for our life. Come on now. I just wonder how many wonderful things God has had planned and how many things He has planned now that if you were not at this conference you would surely mess up by saying things that you shouldn’t say. But thank God because….”

Chris Rosebrough, “Man this is again this is an utter blasphemous twisting of the story. Nowhere in scripture does it say you are going to mess up God’s plans for your life if you say negative words. This is putting every one of these people in bondage to the positive without an actual biblical passage that says, ‘Your words create the future either positive or negative.’ Nowhere in The Bible does it actually say that and quoting Proverbs 18 v 21, ‘Death and life are in the power of the tongue.’ That is a half sentence by the way. That passage actually doesn’t say that either if you would take the time to read it.

Joyce Meyer, “But thank God because you are here this weekend God is not going to have to supernaturally shut your mouth. You are going to learn. Is anybody with me tonight? How many of you see that? Well I guess I just better shut your mouth right now or we are never going to get this done.”

Chris Rosebrough, “Okay I am going to pause it right there and take my break and we will actually have to revisit this full Word of Faith teaching on the part of Joyce Meyer and spend some more time in future instalments of Fighting for the Faith, unpacking the rest of this false teaching. Utterly blasphemous!

No it does not say in the biblical text that God couldn’t do what He was going to do unless He shut the mouth of Zachariah because Zachariah wasn’t speaking positive things, that is not what the text says at all and her twisting of God’s Word is absolutely deceitful, duplicitous and blasphemous.

Okay we are up on our first and only break today and again the programme is a little off. If you would like to email me regarding anything you have heard on this edition or any previous editions of Fighting for the Faith you can do so my email address is talkback@fightingforthefaith.com or you can subscribe on Facebook – facebook.com/piratechristian or you can follow me on Twitter. My name there is @piratechristian.

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